Topic: Schoeps capsules>Schoeps active cable>phantom power>unbalanced mic in?

[noam]

I use Schoeps capsules (mk4’s, etc.)>Schoeps kcy active cable, ending with a 5-pin binder>sonosax lemosax>unbalanced output from lemosax into Sony PCM D1 line in.

Can I instead connect the Schoeps capsules, through the KCY and a 5-pin-to-2 XLR’s cable into a phantom power source like the SP DENECKE PS2 with a stereo miniplug output or Sony’s own PCM D1 matching phantom power unit, and from there go unbalanced into mic in of the Sony PCM D1 instead of into the line in like I do with the lemosax?

The lemosax is supposed to have the “microphone bodies” in addition to the mic preamp – can a mic preamp like the one in the Sony PCM D1 replace everything the lemosax provides (except for the phantom power)?

All that, assuming that the wiring for going from balanced to unbalanced is right for the Schoeps capsules, which is an entirely different issue.

Thanks, Noam

[J.Maye]

Im pretty sure you are going to need either the sax or the bodies. You need one or the other, but you could go caps>actives>bodies>pre>whatever.

[jerryfreak]

im kind of confused with what youre trying to do.

"Can I instead connect the Schoeps capsules, through the KCY and a 5-pin-to-2 XLR’s cable into a phantom power source like the SP DENECKE PS2 with a stereo miniplug output or Sony’s own PCM D1 matching phantom power unit, and from there go unbalanced into mic in of the Sony PCM D1 instead of into the line in like I do with the lemosax?"

if you want to eliminate the sax, you will need either
-a pair of cmc 3,5, or 6 with a phantom power adapter and a balanced>unbalanced adapter cable
-a pair of cmbi mic amps
-an n-box or bill box or one of the other homebrew boxes that replace schoeps bodies
-a pair of cmr bodies and a small battery box

assuming you dont already have mic bodies, the third option is the cheapest, unless you can find a used nbox under $1000

Im pretty sure you are going to need either the sax or the bodies. You need one or the other, but you could go caps>actives>bodies>pre>whatever.

[H₂O]

Can I instead connect the Schoeps capsules, through the KCY and a 5-pin-to-2 XLR’s cable into a phantom power source like the SP DENECKE PS2 with a stereo miniplug output or Sony’s own PCM D1 matching phantom power unit, and from there go unbalanced into mic in of the Sony PCM D1 instead of into the line in like I do with the lemosax?

The lemosax is supposed to have the “microphone bodies” in addition to the mic preamp – can a mic preamp like the one in the Sony PCM D1 replace everything the lemosax provides (except for the phantom power)?

Sounds like you are trying to use your caps with a different preamp.

You will need an AKI cable (converts the 5pin binder to two schoeps body adapters) from Schoeps and a pair of CMC5's or CMC6's bodie (or just a single a Schoeps VST62iu)  to do this.  Then you can connect to phantom power.  You cannot simply connect the binder connector via a simple cable to phantom power.  The signals on the binder  connector are different (lower - i.e. need to be amplified - and unbalanced) and also the power requirements are different (two power sources (+5-+7 or so to drive the electronics in the KCY capsule ends and +50V or so to drive the caps)

The CMC bodies convert and amplify the unbalanced capsule signal to standard balanced micrphone signal and the +48V phantom to the correct voltages for the KCx and capsules - DSatz please jump into correct any that is wrong  - The Lemosax does this and also serves as a pre-amp (also the Scheops VMS 5u and VMS 02ib can do this as well).

Your cheapest option would be to get a Schoeps VST62iu at about $1770 (acts as 2 CMC6's + AKI in one body and has two XLR-3 outputs (through the included XLR 5 to 2 XLR 3 cable)).   You can then run your caps through the VST with any Phantom 12V or 48V powered based Pre-Amp

See:
http://www.posthorn.com/S_vst62.html

[jerryfreak]

Your cheapest option would be to get a Schoeps VST62iu at about $1770 (acts as 2 CMC6's + AKI in one body and has two XLR-3 outputs (through the included XLR 5 to 2 XLR 3 cable)).   You can then run your caps through the VST with any Phantom 12V or 48V powered based Pre-Amp

See:
http://www.posthorn.com/S_vst62.html

actually thats far from the cheapest option, and he would still need to drop a few hundred on a phantom power box. You'll never see one of these on the used market, where you could easily pick up used balanced equipment or new unbalanced equipment for cheaper:

used cmc6 or cmc5 set - $1200-$1500 (needs phantom)
new cmbi pair - $1490/pr, includes cables (but cant be run stealth/active), unbalanced output needs no phantom
new cmr pair+ battery box = $1000/pr, unbalanced output needs no phantom

[H₂O]

actually thats far from the cheapest option, and he would still need to drop a few hundred on a phantom power box. You'll never see one of these on the used market.

Actually let me clarify.  The cheapest Active setup to get you too standard 48V Phantom power of a Denke or the Sony XLR-1 using the current KCY would be to add a VST62iu.

Your right in that you will unlikely find a VST used but if you just grab the used CMC5/6 you loose the active capability and must add in a pair of KC5's (about $600-700 additional) to connect the caps to the CMC's or a new AKI (at about $950 new - can't find these used) to connect the CMCx's to the KCY.  CMC5/6 with active setup would run you about $1800- 2350 with a used set of CMCs

The other options you mention are not compatible with standard mic pre-Amps but effectively eliminate the need for a Pre-Amp.

So Noam if you are looking to completely get rid of a Pre-Amp the CMBI or CRM (most compact) options are a good route,  if you are looking to use a seperate Pre-Amp then a new VST (for Active) or used CMC5/6 pair for Non-Active would be the way to go.

[jerryfreak]

oh right , i forgot about the costs of the kc5's

FYI, cmbi's and cmrs still need a preamp, they just dont need phantom

cmbi's = no active possible, self powered
cmr's = size of actives by definition, tiny 9v battery box required

actually thats far from the cheapest option, and he would still need to drop a few hundred on a phantom power box. You'll never see one of these on the used market.

Actually let me clarify.  The cheapest Active setup to get you too standard 48V Phantom power of a Denke or the Sony XLR-1 using the current KCY would be to add a VST62iu.

Your right in that you will unlikely find a VST used but if you just grab the used CMC5/6 you loose the active capability and must add in a pair of KC5's (about $600-700 additional) to connect the caps to the CMC's or a new AKI (at about $950 new - can't find these used) to connect the CMCx's to the KCY.  CMC5/6 with active setup would run you about $1800- 2350 with a used set of CMCs

The other options you mention are not compatible with standard mic pre-Amps but effectively eliminate the need for a Pre-Amp.

So Noam if you are looking to completely get rid of a Pre-Amp the CMBI or CRM (most compact) options are a good route,  if you are looking to use a seperate Pre-Amp then a new VST (for Active) or used CMC5/6 pair for Non-Active would be the way to go.

[jerryfreak]

heres an idea:

a lot of the cost of an nbox is the cost of the active cables.

if you wanted to try an active setup with different pres maybe nick can build you a power supply for the capsules using your kcy/lemosax cable and omit the gain stage?

oh right , i forgot about the costs of the kc5's

FYI, cmbi's and cmrs still need a preamp, they just dont need phantom

cmbi's = no active possible, self powered
cmr's = size of actives by definition, tiny 9v battery box required

actually thats far from the cheapest option, and he would still need to drop a few hundred on a phantom power box. You'll never see one of these on the used market.

Actually let me clarify.  The cheapest Active setup to get you too standard 48V Phantom power of a Denke or the Sony XLR-1 using the current KCY would be to add a VST62iu.

Your right in that you will unlikely find a VST used but if you just grab the used CMC5/6 you loose the active capability and must add in a pair of KC5's (about $600-700 additional) to connect the caps to the CMC's or a new AKI (at about $950 new - can't find these used) to connect the CMCx's to the KCY.  CMC5/6 with active setup would run you about $1800- 2350 with a used set of CMCs

The other options you mention are not compatible with standard mic pre-Amps but effectively eliminate the need for a Pre-Amp.

So Noam if you are looking to completely get rid of a Pre-Amp the CMBI or CRM (most compact) options are a good route,  if you are looking to use a seperate Pre-Amp then a new VST (for Active) or used CMC5/6 pair for Non-Active would be the way to go.

[noam]

new cmr pair+ battery box = $1000/pr, unbalanced output needs no phantom

I am intrigued by the CMR's! I've never heard about it! It seems like the smallest option, and not too expensive either! What would be the path exactly and what additional Schopes components and cables would I need to end in an 1/8" unbalanced plug? Would it be 2 Schoeps Colette capsules> 2 CMR's>2 cables>one battery box (with 2 mono inputs?)>cable>line-in, or mic-in of Sony PCM D1?

Can I expect the sound quality to be as good as with phantom power and with sonosax? Are these CMR's for serious recordings?

thanks, Noam

[edtyre]

Your cheapest option would be to get a Schoeps VST62iu at about $1770 (acts as 2 CMC6's + AKI in one body and has two XLR-3 outputs (through the included XLR 5 to 2 XLR 3 cable)).   You can then run your caps through the VST with any Phantom 12V or 48V powered based Pre-Amp
See:
http://www.posthorn.com/S_vst62.html

Thanks +T

I was just going to ask how to do this.

[jerryfreak]

thats what im using. the only disadvantage is potential rf interference since its unbalanced vs balanced. my cables are 2 meter, and they are shielded, never had a noise issue. advantages: cheap, tiny, efficient.

same sonically as a cmc6 it wont sound 'like a sonosax' unless you use a sonosax, every pre is different, same signal to noise, a little less output (noise level is also correspondingly reduced)

theyre made for wireless transmitters. if you want to run a stereo pair into taper gear you need a simple 9V battery box or phantom adapter, neither of which is avialable thru schoeps. the mic bodies have their own cables permanently attached, you just need to terminate them with whatever connector works with your gear. mine are currently terminated in 3pin female mini xlrs

best bet is to get them unterminated or terminated in mini xlrs and build it yourself

new cmr pair+ battery box = $1000/pr, unbalanced output needs no phantom

I am intrigued by the CMR's! I've never heard about it! It seems like the smallest option, and not too expensive either! What would be the path exactly and what additional Schopes components and cables would I need to end in an 1/8" unbalanced plug? Would it be 2 Schoeps Colette capsules> 2 CMR's>2 cables>one battery box (with 2 mono inputs?)>cable>line-in, or mic-in of Sony PCM D1?

Can I expect the sound quality to be as good as with phantom power and with sonosax? Are these CMR's for serious recordings?

thanks, Noam