boundary mics

[intpseeker]

It depends what you do.

They are excellent mics for recording in many situation - not stealth, though.

Would I use them for recording a concert, hell no, but I use them on a daily basis for sound reinforcement at corporate meetings when there are a bunch of talking heads sitting around a conference table.

Recording a concert from the section, absolutly not.  But recording from stage lip there is a strong argument to be made for boundary/pzm mics.  The boundry mics reduce many reflections and give a really nice clean sound.  I have found recording jazz groups (without vocals) stage lip with boundary mics is about as good as it gets. 

Here is a pull with a pair of U851R boundary mics split on the stage lip.  This is a jazz band in a really shitty sounding lounge with glass walls on all sides and hardwood floors.  Tough room to get a nice sound in....

http://www.archive.org/details/grimace2007-10-29

Nice!

I was thinking on-stage/stage lip rather than taping from the aud.

So those are listed as half-cardioid.?.

[Javier Cinakowski]

Nice!

I was thinking on-stage/stage lip rather than taping from the aud.

So those are listed as half-cardioid.?.

The U851R uses the same capsules as the AT853 / U853.  So you could use half-omni, half-sub, half-card or half-hyper....

The recording I posted was with the omni capsules...

[illconditioned]

Nice!

I was thinking on-stage/stage lip rather than taping from the aud.

So those are listed as half-cardioid.?.

The U851R uses the same capsules as the AT853 / U853.  So you could use half-omni, half-sub, half-card or half-hyper....

The recording I posted was with the omni capsules...

Hey, I bought your cardioid boundary mics.

I haven't tried the yet (GAS= gear acquisition syndrome, buy gear, don't get around to using it).  But I have used the older version.  I taped them on the walls, about 3' in front of each speaker.  Speakers are on either side of the room, about 20' apart.  This makes a very nice recording, because you get direct PA up close, then other sounds from the stage, and only a little bit of crowd noise.  Highly recommended when speakers are up against the wall pointing foward.

  Richard

[DSatz]

Boundary layer recording requires a rigid backing surface larger than half the wavelength of the lowest frequency of interest, so SASS is definitely not a boundary layer arrangement, despite appearances. The baffles are far too small for it to count as that.

It's more like a Jecklin disk or a stereo sphere arrangement--a closely spaced pair with some acoustically opaque body in between. (In German there's a single compound word for that type of recording--Trennkörperstereophonie--that's hard to translate into less than about seven words in English.)

--best regards

[Gutbucket]

Here is a pull with a pair of U851R boundary mics split on the stage lip.  This is a jazz band in a really shitty sounding lounge with glass walls on all sides and hardwood floors.  Tough room to get a nice sound in....

http://www.archive.org/details/grimace2007-10-29

Nice big sound stage and clean sound there.
Anyone else notice that the channels flip L-R at set break?

I have a single cardioid AT boundary mic in a box somewhere that is the same shape as the U851R but I'm not sure which model it is.  Threw it in a big cardboard box with a bunch of other stuff the day Mars music closed their doors and was clearing everything out. I've never used it but now I'll have to pull it out and check. Too bad I only have one.

[John Willett]

Would I use them for recording a concert, hell no.....

Actually, they are very good at concert recording - it depends on the concert, the acoustics, the conditions and the boundary mics you have.

Mine are the best - but *not* cheap.

I have a pair of the Neumann GFM 132   



The others suitable for quality recording are the top of the Crown PZM range.

But the cheaper boundary mics tend to be designed for PA work and I wouldn't use them for recording - the exception being the Tandy PZMs - a little noisy (but very cheap), but acceptable once modified to balanced output and 48V phantom.

[rokpunk]

That Neumann is purdy!

I have 16 Crown PCC's, and about a dozen AT PZM's.
They get used all the time along with Shure automixers for corporate meetings.
I have never even considered using them for recording music.

[John Willett]

That Neumann is purdy!

Yup  and the shape minimises edge-diffraction problems - but they are almost £2,000 each (including VAT) in the UK - that must be around $3,500 in the USA(?)

I have 16 Crown PCC's, and about a dozen AT PZM's.
They get used all the time along with Shure automixers for corporate meetings.
I have never even considered using them for recording music.

I think the PZM Series are the best Crown mics for recording purposes - the others are for stage and PA use.

[John Willett]

It's more like a Jecklin disk or a stereo sphere arrangement--a closely spaced pair with some acoustically opaque body in between. (In German there's a single compound word for that type of recording--Trennkörperstereophonie--that's hard to translate into less than about seven words in English.

And the seven words are?     

[Javier Cinakowski]

anyone else notice that the channels flip L-R at set break

that is becasue when I go outside to partake in the extra cirricular setbreak activities I bring my recorder with me.  I must not have plugged the xlrs back into the same channel. 

[Gutbucket]

 

[intpseeker]

Would I use them for recording a concert, hell no.....

Actually, they are very good at concert recording - it depends on the concert, the acoustics, the conditions and the boundary mics you have.

Mine are the best - but *not* cheap.

I have a pair of the Neumann GFM 132   



The others suitable for quality recording are the top of the Crown PZM range.

But the cheaper boundary mics tend to be designed for PA work and I wouldn't use them for recording - the exception being the Tandy PZMs - a little noisy (but very cheap), but acceptable once modified to balanced output and 48V phantom.

check the windscreen:

http://www.neumann.com/img/illuArea/GFM132_03_02_P.jpg

[DSatz]

John Willett asked:

> And the seven words are?

Not exactly poetry--see the fourth column heading in the attached chart (from Schoeps Catalog 6, page 131).

--best regards

[indietaperwloo]

I have made some great sounding choral group recordings using boundary pzm's and music stands as baffles.

I'm intrigued by this method actually because I plan on recording a choral group next year.  I was going to use MC930s in either XY or ORTF but I might use a pair of PZM mics in a split A/B configuration near the front of the group and run them out to an FR-2LE.
I've used similar methods for miking a stage for a young company production I was sound designer for at a local theatre.  I actually did a post about it in a thread on stage lip miking.  It's a common miking technique found in theatre circles which saves the backstage crew from having to put lavs and/or headsets on all the actors.  Sometimes people do headsets to make the cast look like rock stars (i.e. Rent).

[mblindsey]

This thread inspired me to pick up some boundary mics.  I found some on eBay.  I just now ordered 2 x "Beyerdynamic MPC 65 VJ Boundary Microphone" for ~$32 with shipping (with live.com 8% discount).  For that price, I'm bound to find something useful for them.

If anyone has an opinion on these, I'd love to hear it.

Here is a direct link to the "Buy it Now" auction..there are 5 left at the time of this posting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120301222862

--Michael