Topic: Edirol R-09HR "vs" Sony PCM-M1

[Nick's Picks]

I'll chime in w/an echo of what everyone else said....
but I'll alter a bit.

- dump the DAT.  that much is a given for a zillion reasons all mentioned.
- new deck...but which ?  do you want something that you can plug cheap small mics into and record and thats all you'll ever need?
- does it have to be a "stealthy" setup 100% of the time and thats the biggest priority?

I ask that, because a deck like the PMD 660 or 661 is not huge...offers decent preamps (if modified especially) and most importantly, PHANTOM POWER...should you step up to condenser mics in the future.
Edirol R-44, for that matter.  Even a little smaller than the Marantz units I mention above, 4 channels, phantom and the preamps sound good *stock*, right out of the box.  Add mics and your done.

if you're sticking to the little hand helds, The R09HR is my favorite of the bunch.
I'd put any version the r09 or r09HR..up against *any* stock sony DATMAN style deck (d7/8 M1/100) w/o hesitation.

[spyder9]

Definitely go with the R09HR.  No brainer.  No moving parts.  Lightning transfer times.  And it sounds great.

[sunjan]

I ask that, because a deck like the PMD 660 or 661 is not huge...

Edirol R-44, for that matter.  Even a little smaller than the Marantz units I mention above,

Not really, the R44 is still the biggest of the bunch. I'd dare to stealth with the 661, but I don't think I'd have enough jedi powers for anything bigger than that. 

PMD 661 Dimensions :
165mm (6.5”) x 93mm (3.7”) x  36mm (1.4”)

PMD 660 Dimensions :
7.2" (183.5 mm) x 4.5" (113 mm) x 1.9" (47 mm)

R44 Dimensions:
183(D) x 157(W) x 61(H) mm
7-1/4(D) x 6-3/16(W) x 2-7/16(H) inches

[Nick's Picks]

its an inch or more larger in width and depth.
its tiny, for what it is.  and having had all of these decks..., I can tell you that stealthing with any of them is a cake walk.

lay them all side by side, they are relatively in the same ball park.

Or, a R9, mics that will "thrive" on its 5v plug in power.  typically, we're looking at an external battery box for 9v.
still, small..., and there ain't nothing wrong wit it.

[nak700s]

I gotta say, everyone is so quick to dismiss the DAT recorders.  Although the convenience factors can not be denied, the quality of the recording (you remember - the end result, the reason you go through all this trouble in the first place) is debatable.  Whereas, the R-09HR or other comparable machines are certainly easier, nothing really worth doing is ever that easy.  Given the outcome of a side-by-side comparison, I don't believe there is a discernable difference that screams out that the flash recorder is better than the DAT.  Remember, I'm not talking features, moving parts or post production, I'm talking simple listening pleasure.  In the end, I would pick the M1 over the R-09 (which I believe was the original question here).  I think the machine does a better job.

Now, the R-09 is easy to use (providing you have something to magnify the extremely small screen), but it also feels like an insignificant piece of nothing.  The M1, on the other hand, feels like you're holding something - yet is still perfectly stealthable.  You don't even have to get additional modifications or programs to shut off all those stupid lights that are screaming out to security "I'm over here".  You know what I'm talking about!  Although there are certainly more things that could go wrong with a deck that has moving parts, there are always things that could go wrong with any "machine".  Just like there can be tape or loading issues (if you're not paying attention), there can also be an issue with a bad SD card.  Shit happens, and it always will.  The simple truth is that the question was Edirol R-09HR "vs" Sony PCM-M1.  What is really the question?  Was it which will give the best END RESULT, which is less problematic, which is easier to use, or which does not look like a shaver?  Ultimately, the person who is asking for the help needs to establish what is the most important factor to them.

I am currently using an M1 and looking at different flash recorders.  I can't imagine why I would replace one thing with something that isn't significantly better to me and for my needs.  The M1 does a fine job!  When I find a deck that does all the things I am looking for and a comparable size, I will make the switch.  So far, I'm waiting on the Tascam DR-100.  On that you have separate right/left level controls as well as a host of other benefits and the size is only about 1" longer than the M1.  But only time will tell on that one.  For now, I will stick with my trusty M1 and be more concerned with the mic modification I'm working on.  Always attack the weakest link first...

[jlykos]

I can't imagine why I would replace one thing with something that isn't significantly better to me and for my needs. 

16 vs. 24 bit.  24 bit is significantly better than 16 bit.

[spyder9]

Nak700s,

The R09 and the R09HR are not the same deck.  The HR is a significant improvement over the original, in build quality, sound, and additional sampling rates.  Agreed, the original R09 felt like a toy and backed it up with the faulty line in.  That said, the HR is the real deal and can't be dismissed. 

I never had a problem with a SD card ever.

I never had a problem powering a flash recorder either.

I never had a problem with the original R09's light when stealthing

There's an M1 up on eBay right now, auction ends in 6 hours.



 

[Belexes]

I tape at 24 and you on 16 with the M1, my recording will sound better all other things being equal.

[Dede2002]

Nak700s,

The R09 and the R09HR are not the same deck.  The HR is a significant improvement over the original, in build quality, sound, and additional sampling rates.  Agreed, the original R09 felt like a toy and backed it up with the faulty line in.  That said, the HR is the real deal and can't be dismissed. 

I never had a problem with a SD card ever.

I never had a problem powering a flash recorder either.

I never had a problem with the original R09's light when stealthing

There's an M1 up on eBay right now, auction ends in 6 hours.



 

Same thing here.

[carpa]

I can confirm. I had an M1 and now I own a R09HR. Don't regret at all.
c

[Nick's Picks]

If end result is the main concern...

- you have a much higher chance of loosing your recording w/a DAT deck.  misloads, munched tape, faulty media, wear and tear..etc.  All of these things can happen not once, but twice.  once while recording, another chance to fail on transfer.

- an M1 feels like a brick (quality is heavy, right?) because its jam packed with moving parts that are going to break, was designed over 15 years ago, and that was the best they could do.  top of the line "micro" technology.  And you paid a premium for a new one.  I wont tell anyone that they are not an awesome DAT deck, it certainly was...in 1993.

There isn't a hand held deck in existence that is equal in price to what a new M1 cost back in the day.  Maybe the Sony PCM-D1, which would be the modern day equiv. of the M1.

a tape based recorder just makes no sense today.  i can't think of a single argument in its favor.

[nak700s]

The more research I do supports the arguement that a flash recorder is a good move, but I will say, it will be a difficult concept for me not to have an actual "master" of the show.  It's not realistic to buy and hold onto SD cards, so I have to keep the recording backed up on a hard drive and hope it doesn't crash.

[Brian Skalinder]

so I have to keep the recording backed up on a hard drive and hope it doesn't crash.

You don't have to hope.  You have the option to safeguard the master to the same degree as a DAT tape by implementing an effective backup plan.  Check the Readme1st thread stickied at the top of the forum -- there are a handful of threads that will give you some ideas for backup strategy options and, if you choose, redundancy.

[Nick's Picks]

- backup the files on CD/DVD
- upload the FLACs to the Archive (if applicable)
- keep them on the hdd as well

buy a squeezebox.

enjoy!

I understand where you're coming from.  I have a large stack of DAT masters too, and there is something safe about knowing they are there.
However, since giving up DAT in 2000, I now have .5tb in masters, FLAC files, DSD masters...everything.  All of them are safe and sound on DVD and "archived".

[nak700s]

Yeah, yeah, yeah...I know I just don't want to face the music and do what I must.  Right now, my focus has been transering old cassette masters to CD.  The down side is that I know I don't have enough time in my life to finish the job so I pick and choose which shows to transfer.  A flash recorder will speed up the process a little as well as be able to be used for future shows.  It's just weird not having a physical master.

By the way, what is a squeezebox?