Topic: My first matrix? Advice needed.

[BradM]

I'm in a band, and we're going to be playing a moderately big club here in Ottawa on April 1. I'll be taping the show, and since I've recorded in this club a bunch of times, I think I know how to get a decent-sounding recording, but since I can't monitor my recording while I'm playing, I wanted to see if there was a way to go suspenders-and-a-belt and try to get two different sources. ("Yeah, so running a recording rig while I'm playing it tough...I know, I'll run two recording rigs! That'll make it so much better..."). One band I've seen at this club usually patches their own recorder into the soundboard, so I thought it might be good to do that, too, but I wanted to do a dry run or two to make sure I knew how to do it.

As it turned out, a band I know and like (and introduced to being taped) was playing there this past Friday, so I brought along my backup recorder (a Sharp MD-MT15S) and associated paraphenalia, with an eye to at least seeing if (and how) I could make it work.

When I asked the sound guy, he was a little apprehensive, largely because he thought it wouldn't really be worth getting a recording off the soundboard, as the main mix was mostly vocals, and mono at that. "But I might be able to give you two channels, one just vocals, and one just instruments." Since I didn't really care about having it be a representative recording (as opposed to a trial of the recording process), I said fine, and got patched in.

Somewhere between the second and third sets it dawned on me: I was going to end up with a stereo audience recording, along with two separate (but syncronized) mono soundboard recordings, one of just the vocals, and one of just the instruments.

I'm thinking this would be an ideal subject for some kind of matrix, but I've never done any of that kind of work before, so some advice/help would be appreciated. As near as I can tell, the process should go something like this:

• transfer a given set's audience recording to the computer
• transfer a given set's soundboard recording to the computer
• load both of them into Audacity
• sync/stretch/reposition the soundboard recording to align it with the audience recording
• split the soundboard recording into two mono recordings (as opposed to one stereo recording)
• tweak/EQ/boost/compress each recording as needed
• determine the final mix percentages, i.e., how much of the stereo audience recording + how much of the vocal soundboard recording + how much of the instrument soundboard
• mix everything down, producing a final matrixed stereo recording
• chop into tracks as usual

There are a couple of snags, though. First, the MD of the first set's soundboard source is missing the first minute or two of the set (it was running, but wasn't getting signal, due to a mis-inserted cable). Second, the MD of the third set's soundboard source has a gap in it when I had to change batteries (so there are two tracks on the MD; I plan on transferring them separately and leaving them as separate WAV files). I assume that in the missing sections, I'll have to use 100% of the audience recording in the final mix.

The big thing I'm not sure about (aside from handling the snags, which I have no clue how to do in Audacity) is the whole tweaking/EQing/etc. and then mixing process. For audio, all I have hooked up to the computer are the cheezy in-monitor speakers, so I'm wondering if hooking my PC up to/through my home stereo (with Paradigm Mini Monitor speakers) would be worth the hassle. I also don't really know much about audio processing (especially things like "band" compression, where only one band of frequencies is compressed). I also assume that mix percentages for matrices are usually done once, as opposed to "riding the faders" as the songs and the set progresses, but I don't know how to determine what the mix needs to be. I'm thinking of trying just the audience source on its own, then a 50/25/25 mix, which, if it sounds better, can be further adjusted. Is that the kind of workflow that matrixers use? Any other advice or help would be appreciated.

Aloha,
Brad

P.S. I'm also friends with a guy who runs a recording studio, and in the past he's offered to help with any post-production work I want to do, so I've contacted him about the project.

[dorrcoq]

P.S. I'm also friends with a guy who runs a recording studio, and in the past he's offered to help with any post-production work I want to do, so I've contacted him about the project.

That sounds easiest!

[pistolpete71]

P.S. I'm also friends with a guy who runs a recording studio, and in the past he's offered to help with any post-production work I want to do, so I've contacted him about the project.

That sounds easiest!

QFT

Sounds like you have your mind wrapped around the matter pretty well ....your buddy can probably fill in the blanks. Having the SBD feed split between vocals and instruments will be a HUGE help when doing your mix. Just be sure to save copies of all your original files first so you can go back and remaster (if needed) if/when you upgrade your monitoring gear. 

[rsimms3]

I would start with reading the threads on doing a Matrix in the Computer Recording Help forum, there are several threads on the topic.  It sounds like you have a good working knowledge of the process.  The best advice is to get dirty working with the audio.  As long as you actually have the audio, you have forever to get it right.  You said you were recording with an MD, I would try to borrow or use something that records directly to WAV so you don't have to rerecord it, unless of course you are running Hi-MD which can record in WAV.  The suggestion of connecting with the guy that works in the studio sounds good, but in the end if this is something you want to do on a regular basis, experience and practice are the best way to learn.

[Roving Sign]

You may get surprisingly good results - and a WAY easier job - with just the two mono soundboard feeds...

Double the insturment channel for L/R and keep the vocal mono...that should put it in the middle

I'd rather walk on glass before I try a "stretch and sync" type of matrix...

Try some M/S approaches/plugins...

Maybe some of the Audacity effects might be in stereo - make a reverb/diffuse sounding track to layer...or offset it a bit to create a bit of ambience...or synthetic stereo-ness. I've found matrices just want a bit of slop or audio clutter on top to fatten them up...and it doesnt always have to be something you might think sounds good on its own...

[SmokinJoe]

I've done plenty of "matrixes" (I prefer the term "mixes").  The easiest way by far is with a 4 channel deck like an R4.  Lacking that there are 2 approaches in post...

Approach 1 = "patch to sync"
- when you get home patch the output of the minidisc SBD recording into the input of the other recorder, and play it back in real time.
- the idea is that the minidisc will play it back at the same rate it recorded, and the other recorder will record at the same rate it did at the gig, so that clocks line up. I've done this before, and it's been within .005 seconds over an hour, which is plenty close enough.
- Bring both sources up in editor of your choice and align the start marks.  Rather than go for a peak, I find it's better to find a spot that has a sudden ramp up... like dead quiet > drum beat.
- yeah, you are adding a digital or analog gen here, but it won't be noticeable, especially with a digi patch.
- This only works with analog patches, or when you input recorder resamples like an R4/UA-5, etc.  If you digi patch and your second device syncs to the first device you haven't gained anything.  Everyone bitches about "resampling" like it's a plague, but it comes in damn handy some times.

Approach 2 = "stretch and sync".
- I've done this a few times too... I used to run Mics > UA-5 > H120 aud + SBD > R09, and they were off about .3 seconds / hour.
- Audacity will allow you stretch one or the other, and it works.  Something like change tempo but not pitch.
- If you aren't perfect you can go in between songs and take a few thousands of a second out of one track or the other to re-align on a track by track basis.
- The first event is painful, after a time or two you get better at it.
- after a few of these I ponied up the coin for an R4.

[rsimms3]

I use "Approach 2"
The only specific thing I do with this approach is to cut one of the sources into tracks and add them against the main, full track; which appears to be implied above.  Stretching a whole 1.5 hour track takes an enormous amount of processing time and power whereas stetching individual tracks take less time.  Probably less accurate, but certainly less frustrating in practice. 

[heyitsmejess]

this is what i did with the same situation....stereo audience and the sbd feed being one channel vocals, one channel instruments

http://www.archive.org/details/rumpkemb2008-10-11

i did the assembly with reaper