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Author Topic: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)  (Read 66054 times)

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Offline audiolino

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #390 on: March 01, 2012, 05:16:14 PM »
@cybergaloot
Thank you for your answer.

I will formulate my question more precisely.
Are the preamps of a RME Quadmic significant better, than the build in preamps of the R-44?
I know, running a Quadmic in front of the Edirol won,t bypass the build in preamps.
Do you use external preamps, wich ones you use, and how would you describe the differences?
Perhaps some of you use a 2 channel preamp with A/D converter, and run in the R-44 via S/PDIF.
I would be glad, if you can tell me your experiences.

-sorry for my poor english

-audiolino

Offline macdaddy

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #391 on: March 03, 2012, 10:22:12 AM »
twenty seven pages. i started part five of the discussion here....
-macdaddy ++

akg c422 > s42 > lunatec v2 > ad2k+ > roland r-44

Offline RichT

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #392 on: March 09, 2012, 07:21:44 AM »
I've used the Quadmic with the R-44, the quadmic pres are less noisy when you turn up the gain.  Both preamps sound quite neutral.

Hi!
I am a happy owner of an R-44 (no mod).  I am a violinist, living in the north of germany. I intend to do some classical chamber music recordings. By now, my Mics are a pair of Neumann Km 184  and a pair of Rode Nt5. I try to get 2 used Sennheiser MKH 40.

I read thru all 4 parts of the R-44 thread, and I just registered to post my question refering to preamps:

Does it make sense to use a RME Quadmic, does anybody now about the increase in quality?

Would be glad if somebody knows and/or tried out.
-audiolino

Offline audiolino

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #393 on: March 11, 2012, 04:40:04 AM »
@RichT
Many thanks for your answer!
That was exactly what i wanted to know. I already managed to get one used Sennheiser MKH40, and the second one targeted.
Well they deliver quite high level, so no problems with the R-44 preamps, and they also have low power consumption (2mA).
Can`t be bad for the sound not to stress the phantom power to much.
-audiolino

Offline JrF

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #394 on: June 21, 2012, 12:47:44 PM »
Hi folks,

do any of you R-44 users have any ideas about an issue i'm having:

thought i'd ask you about this as you might have some ideas. My main recorder is a Sound Devices, but I just picked an R-44 up too for students to use on courses & have been putting it through some tests. I connected some DPA 4060's & there's a strange fluttering in the low end & also some electronic signal from the recorder is picked up. The setting on the recorder are all as they should be (48v phantom on, no filters, limiters etc). Its got me scratching my head !  The mics work fine on my other recorders & i've also tested the R-44 with various other mics & it doesn't appear to happen with those. Any ideas ?

& to confuse things further:

I tried connecting the Rode Lavaliers & the Sanken - to test 'similar' mic
designs to see if there was something in the powering or even the micon
connectors that could be causing it. They both work fine so its just the DPA !

I've also noticed that the R-44, just with the DPA's, has a low hum that
vanished when you touch any of the metal parts or the 'grounding terminal' (!).
This seems really odd - as if the DPA's are somehow making the recorder 'live'
but I can't work out how it'd be doing that.

ta,
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 01:22:08 PM by JrF »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #395 on: June 21, 2012, 02:36:57 PM »
Could some sort of ground issue.  How are you connecting the 5V powered, microdot-connector equiped DPAs to the R44?  Are you using the DPA XLR adaptors designed for stepping down 48V phantom power?  I'd double check all your connections as well as the adaptors.  Try them on another recorder to see if the same problems arise.

I use 4060s with the R44 regularly, usually with Niant PFA XLR adapters, but also the DPA XLR adapter, all of which work fine. 
Side note- one of those adapters inverts signal polarity, but I haven't checked to confirm which.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 02:42:51 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #396 on: June 21, 2012, 03:37:56 PM »
Are the mics hooked to channels 1 & 2 or to 3 & 4? Doug Oade claims the screen can cause some noise but I've never heard it myself.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #397 on: June 21, 2012, 03:44:32 PM »
Are the mics hooked to channels 1 & 2 or to 3 & 4? Doug Oade claims the screen can cause some noise but I've never heard it myself.

This was just covered in another thread.  He found very slight measurable noise in ch 1&2 due to interference from the screen, but said it was far to minimal to be noticable in any typical music recording applictation.   I'd guess it's probably lower than the self-noise of the 4060s.  I've never noticed it either.
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Offline JrF

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #398 on: June 21, 2012, 03:53:06 PM »
thanks for the replies so far.  more info:

DPA4060's connected using DPA DAD6001 xlr adaptor - & the work fine on all my other recorders (sound devices etc) so its not the mics.

the 'fluttering' is very low volume but noticeable. The sound of the recorders electronics (a regular sound every 10 seconds or so - as if picking up the sound of the internal system refreshing or writing to the card or something) happens regardless of how far the mics are from the recorder & it doesn't change when the mics are moved. The ground hum is constant & fairly loud - this only happens with mains power & reduces to almost nothing when touching any metal part of the recorder.

The R-44 is a new unit, stock - direct from Roland, for use as a back up recorder (main kit is Sound Devices based).

ta.

ps. & this only happens with the DPA's - all other mics tested with it so far are fine.

« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 03:54:51 PM by JrF »

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #399 on: June 21, 2012, 05:32:00 PM »
I've had a different mic produce similar symptoms which was caused by a ground loop.  I was powering that stereo mic with an external, mains-powered phantom source while powering a second set of mics with the onboard phantom power.  The recorder was battery powered, and even though there was only one mains connection, I got similar noises when I'd switch on power to that mic.  I fixed it by isolating the mic body electronics from the metal mic body housing with a plastic gasket, after noticing that the sounds went away when I touched or manipulated the metal mic housing.

Since your problem occurs only on mains power and goes away when you touch the metal parts would seem to be something similar.  Here are a few trouble shooting ideas-

Start with a single mic and adapter.
Does the same problem occur on each of the four input channels equally?
Does the problem occur with only the adapter plugged in without a mic attached?
Does the problem occur with the other adapters/mics or just one?
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline JrF

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #400 on: June 21, 2012, 05:44:57 PM »
thanks - interesting, but surely one shouldn't have to re-wire anything ! it must be something specific in the DPA / R-44 matching & the mic you were using, that is just different from most others.

Does the same problem occur on each of the four input channels equally?  - YES
Does the problem occur with only the adapter plugged in without a mic attached?  - YES
Does the problem occur with the other adapters/mics or just one? - YES, WITH ALL THE DPA 4060'S I HAVE.

technology eh ! :)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #401 on: June 21, 2012, 06:18:58 PM »
The mic I had the ground problem with was a stereo LDC not a DPA.  It was definitely a problem with the mic itself.

Hmmm.

Rethinking.. trying to remember if I have used the DAD6001 with the R44 or not.  I typically use the DAD6001 with another recorder.  I may have only used the Niant PFAs to power my 4060s with the R44.  I'll pull them out and give it a try tonight if I get the time.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline JrF

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #402 on: June 21, 2012, 06:22:22 PM »
ta.

I've checked the DPA's also in a Roland R-26 & a similar thing happens ! it MUST be something to do with the way Roland configures something or other. The DPA's (with the 6001 XLR plug) work fine in every other make of recorder i've used them with or know other folks have used them with. Very odd indeed. I'll email DPA & Roland too to see if they have any ideas.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #403 on: June 22, 2012, 09:46:54 AM »
Didn't get a chance to check this wth my gear lastnight, but I always run the R-44 on battery power where you mention the issue may not arrise.  The biggest challenge for me will be locating the R-44's AC adapter.  :P
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline JrF

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Re: EDIROL R-44 (PART IV)
« Reply #404 on: June 22, 2012, 10:04:01 AM »
happens with both battery power & mains ! on both the R-26 & the R-44 by the way !  The R-26 has low level electronic noise (not pre-amp hiss) from the display screen with all kinds of different mics so far !

 

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