Topic: Close In Stack Taping

[nathan_g]

Here's the deal. I know stack taping has been covered plenty. I've searched and read the posts. That said, I haven't read anything that totally covers my situation.

I'm going to a show this coming Monday, solo acoustic in an old movie theater, front row about 5-6 feet directly in front of the stack, reasonable volume. The stack(s) are at roughly head level, totally 007. I've previously taped in the same venue on several occasions with at943 omnis and the results have been very nice. The one glaring issue has been loud, vocal clappers. Since my last real outing I picked up some hyper caps. Clearly they eliminate the noisy folks to some degree but I haven't had enough chances to use them to become totally comfortable with them - haven't taped close in with them. My worry is that they may be so directional that I leave the proverbial 'hole in the middle'. I've taped the home playback and that sounds fine but the circumstances aren't very real world. The question is do I run omnis or hypers. The spacing will be the average width of an adult male neck. Any input other than 'stealth taping is wrong, blah, blah, blah' would be appreciated. The artist doesn't care, said so to me personally, management doesn't agree, venue is a wildcard.

The omnis have always done me right and the clappers have been taken care of in post but I'd prefer a cleaner source, without all the post work.

[darby]

4 inch spacing should not be a problem with Hypers

[nathan_g]

4 inch neck...you flatter me

I'm a pretty big guy. That said, I get your meaning and appreciate the response. Maybe I'll get carded for smokes next...that'd make my day...

[darby]

my neck might be 5 inches at the most... you must be a big guy

EDIT:
that's still less than DINa... so you should be fine

[nathan_g]

Never really measured it...I wear an 18" collar, fwiw. Sure feels big. I also have a twisted, self deprecating sense of humor...

[nathan_g]

I look more like the Michelin Man every day...started around age 30 with the beer & hot peanuts diet  So much for aging gracefully...

Please correct me if I'm wrong here - DIN is 20cm spread @ 90deg. while DINa is 17cm @90deg?

[darby]

Please correct me if I'm wrong here - DIN is 20cm spread @ 90deg. while DINa is 17cm @90deg?

that is correct

[nathan_g]

Many thanks...

[chrisnubar]

it's the way mics are designed to be used - a few feet away, not 100 yds away pointed sideways.. the best would be if you had a friend on the other stack and you combined it later. in my opinion.

[acidjack]

Here's the deal. I know stack taping has been covered plenty. I've searched and read the posts. That said, I haven't read anything that totally covers my situation.

I'm going to a show this coming Monday, solo acoustic in an old movie theater, front row about 5-6 feet directly in front of the stack, reasonable volume. The stack(s) are at roughly head level, totally 007. I've previously taped in the same venue on several occasions with at943 omnis and the results have been very nice. The one glaring issue has been loud, vocal clappers. Since my last real outing I picked up some hyper caps. Clearly they eliminate the noisy folks to some degree but I haven't had enough chances to use them to become totally comfortable with them - haven't taped close in with them. My worry is that they may be so directional that I leave the proverbial 'hole in the middle'. I've taped the home playback and that sounds fine but the circumstances aren't very real world. The question is do I run omnis or hypers. The spacing will be the average width of an adult male neck. Any input other than 'stealth taping is wrong, blah, blah, blah' would be appreciated. The artist doesn't care, said so to me personally, management doesn't agree, venue is a wildcard.

The omnis have always done me right and the clappers have been taken care of in post but I'd prefer a cleaner source, without all the post work.

If you can get that close to the stack, I think you'd be better off with the omnis... you'll get a much richer sounding recording.  IMHO the hypers with the AT mics are not very good - I have taped everything from soft acoustic to loud rock with them and never really liked the results, though they do of course cut out clapping.  But if you can stack tape close, go omnis every time, IMHO.

[nathan_g]

I agree about the omnis sounding better. The hypers come off sounding sort of 'thin' if that makes any sense. I might try to catch the opener with the hypers then slip outside and give it a quick listen in the car and make a quick decision before the main act.

I have a friend that will almost surely be at this show...probably sitting very close by. He's one of these people that has to clap the loudest, and when he's particularly impressed with something he enthusiastically shouts "YEAH, YEAH!" at ear splitting volume. It's really obnoxious. Since I started taping he's made efforts to tone it down a notch whenever I'm around but the casual observer would never know it. The last two shows I've pulled at this venue have been marred primarily by this superfan BS. Thing is, he always arrives early and saves me a seat...usually a great seat, ironically because he knows that I'm taping. There's really no way to address it with him without seeming like a total prick, so...c'est la vie. I'll have a great time either way...I'll just be staring at Audition for about 12 hours the next day...

I think I'll give him the raw, unedited copy with no post whatsoever...

[dean]

...if you can stack tape close, go omnis every time, IMHO.

Agreed on the omnis, but I'm a biased observer - a total omni slut.  I've actually had great luck with the 943's further from the stack (40').  But I think they'd sound just fine up close.

I might try to catch the opener with the hypers then slip outside and give it a quick listen in the car and make a quick decision before the main act.

Excellent idea.  Hope you actually do this.  The comp would be nice to have.

I think I'll give him the raw, unedited copy with no post whatsoever...

  You should make him a mix of just his hootin', hollerin' and loud clapping!   

[nathan_g]

Maybe make it a 'hidden' track at the end of the disc. Add about 2-3 minutes of silence at the end of the last track, then...YEAH, YEAH!! WOOOOO!! for a few minutes...

I've always been pleased by the sound of the omnis. Part of it is the fact that I haven't really had much of a chance to use the hypers. To me, they're still new and I wanna use 'em. Besides quieting the audience with the hypers, will it really make that much of a difference (omnis/hypers) considering the close stack proximity?

[dean]

Maybe make it a 'hidden' track at the end of the disc. Add about 2-3 minutes of silence at the end of the last track, then...YEAH, YEAH!! WOOOOO!! for a few minutes...

I've always been pleased by the sound of the omnis. Part of it is the fact that I haven't really had much of a chance to use the hypers. To me, they're still new and I wanna use 'em. Besides quieting the audience with the hypers, will it really make that much of a difference (omnis/hypers) considering the close stack proximity?

IMO, you'll get a quality product either way.  But I do think there would be a very clear difference in how each sounded.  I'm really pulling for you to do the hyper for the opener and the omnis for the main act for the comparison.  Just think what you'd be doing for future generations of tapers!   

Hidden track idea is fantastic, actually!

[nathan_g]

Hopefully future generations won't be in the bittersweet position of having a great seat directly next to such a blowhard...

If circumstances permit, I'll do the comp. I'm pretty curious myself. I appreciate all the input.


edit to add:

Dude's actually a nice guy...just VERY enthusiastic. And I totally appreciate the great seats, past and present.