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Author Topic: SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE  (Read 114895 times)

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Offline wboswell

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #240 on: April 26, 2004, 03:29:35 PM »
Don't think we are going to know that until it comes out...  Surely it'll be something comparable to any of the above units/combos you mentioned.  If not, there will be a flood in the marketplace.

The price is high, but is there another company putting out a competitive product?  Not really.  The only thing that I would consider ballpark is the the PDA recorder, only b/c of its 24/96 compatibility, and it doesn't have a pre/ad.  I have a friend that has the pda recorder up and running, and he seems to like it alot.  However, it cost him well over a grand.  The nice thing about it is that he can mix and match the front end to his liking.  The bad thing is that he has to deal with a palm pilot.  Either way, he has over $2500 invested in the pda and v3.

With any luck, I'll have a 722 to run at the Stockholm Syndrome shows in Charleston at the end of May.  It'll be run head to head with the v3>pda.

Offline Tim

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #241 on: April 26, 2004, 03:47:50 PM »
after getting burned by Apogee on the MiniMe I'm a little gun shy. I hope it sounds great but I'm nervous...
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #242 on: April 26, 2004, 03:58:32 PM »
after getting burned by Apogee on the MiniMe

Pun intended?

Offline Tim

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #243 on: April 26, 2004, 03:59:11 PM »
:lol:

not at all, glad you caught it!
I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

Offline wboswell

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #244 on: April 30, 2004, 10:53:18 AM »
News on the FAQ page...

Quote
What are the pros and cons of your transformer-less preamp design?

Way back in 1998, when developing our first product, the MP-1, we built a number of prototypes with different transformer combinations with the typical premium transformer brands. Matt Anderson, our chief engineer, had designed a few mic-level transformers in an earlier life, so he was particularly critical of their construction and electrical performance. Matt used a Lundahl part in our first product's circuit because of its excellent handling of high signal levels, low distortion--particularly at low frequencies, and wide dynamic range. It also is a good part mechanically and its footprint is convenient on a circuit board. That original MP-1 preamp is the basic core of preamps in the MM-1, MP-2 (discontinued), MixPre, 302, and 442. You can bet that we will use it again in later field mixer designs.

Quality mic-level audio transformers have excellent common-mode rejection, galvanic isolation, plus passive gain. That last point is quite useful in a field mixer powered by a few penlight batteries. Transformers are a benefit in the field, especially with unknown audio sources. In addition, they have their own sonic characteristics by being somewhat non-linear. Their downside
is that they are physically large, heavy, and expensive (for good ones).

Enter the recorder...

To keep size and weight of the recorder down, and since we have the luxury of (relatively) ample current via our Li-Ion battery, we pursued designing a circuit which equals a transformer all the way around. This unique input stage is a classic long-tailed pair (using some very low noise discrete transistors) with some unique twists. Very high common mode impedance is
acheived, which yields excellent common mode rejection. One of the most wonderful aspects of a well designed transformer stage is low noise at low gains. Most transformerless input stages (SSM2017, INA163, etc) do have excellent noise performance - with the input trim cranked to 60 dB of gain. This new circuit has very low noise across the gain range, has extremely low THD (0.0005%) and has excellent noise cancelling characteristics. We feel that it rivals or betters any mic pre on the market sonically, transformer or transformerless.


I still would like to know a bit more about the gain structure of the unit:  What is the minimal amount of gain applied with the unit is set to 'mic in'?

If we knew that, it would settle some questions about running a brick in front...  If the gain kicks in at +20dbs ala the mp-2, then it won't work and you'll have to deal with stepped attenuation, but if its starts at +10 like with the v3, then we're golden.

BobW

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #245 on: May 04, 2004, 11:06:52 AM »
News on the FAQ page...

Quote
I still would like to know a bit more about the gain structure of the unit:  What is the minimal amount of gain applied with the unit is set to 'mic in'?

If we knew that, it would settle some questions about running a brick in front...  If the gain kicks in at +20dbs ala the mp-2, then it won't work and you'll have to deal with stepped attenuation, but if its starts at +10 like with the v3, then we're golden.

Why the brick in front of a pre that claims to be the holiest of the holies ?
Do you need that much more gain ?

Any word on an SD722RAW ? How about a price ?
$2800 is large investment  for a sport recorder.
Too bad full modularity wasn't added in.
A Pre-A/D board, a controller board, interface board, etc.
How about the warantee ?

Check out the complexity of the 4-Layer circuit board on a MixPre
I'd hate to ever have be concerned with repair work on it, and I'm sure the same is true of the SD-7XX machines.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 11:10:04 AM by BobW »

BobW

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #246 on: May 04, 2004, 11:13:49 AM »
i HOPE to have one for field testing during telluride bluegrass.  obviously, i want to run the v3 in front of it, but will give it a go as a stand alone 50% of the time.

jr

You know we want to hear that !

Offline wboswell

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #247 on: May 04, 2004, 04:50:56 PM »

Why the brick in front of a pre that claims to be the holiest of the holies ?
Do you need that much more gain ?


Has nothing to do with needing more gain.  I would simply like to add a little color to my mics.  I ran a brick in front of a v3 about a half dozen times this past fall and I really liked the warm results.

The other option would be running the unit line in from a soundboard where you don't have control over the signal.  It would be easier to tell the sound guy to set the levels conservatively and add gain rather than tell him to guess at decent levels and then try to attenuate the signal leaving clicks on the master.

BobW

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #248 on: May 04, 2004, 05:24:42 PM »

The other option would be running the unit line in from a soundboard where you don't have control over the signal.  It would be easier to tell the sound guy to set the levels conservatively and add gain rather than tell him to guess at decent levels and then try to attenuate the signal leaving clicks on the master.

OK, I get the use of the brick to color the sound, but then you must not be using line-in, as the brick is fixed gain, true ?

I'm sort of confused on the SBD>>Line-in and click reference.
Isn't there a trim control like on a V3 ? Are the major gain steps mechanical switch or opto-isolated ? Why is it easier and quieter to add gain than to attenuate the line-in ?

Sorry for the dumb newbie questions, but I really want to understand what I'm getting myself into before sinking this year's lunch money into this box.  

-Bob
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 05:25:29 PM by BobW »

BobW

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #249 on: May 04, 2004, 05:27:13 PM »
An FYI,  Doug Oade is talking about a mod to the Fostex FR-2 to give SD a run for the their $$$$.  

Ya gotta love America !  :bouncy:  :banana:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 05:30:22 PM by BobW »

Offline wboswell

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #250 on: May 04, 2004, 06:12:45 PM »
If you take a look at the SD website, they mention that 'mic in' on the unit offers continuous analog gain and that 'line in' on the unit has .5 db stepped attenuation.  Nutter inquired about the stepped attenuation and they responded that it would leave noisey artifacts.  

Will Doug be able to modify the FR-2 so that its the same size as the 722 and has a 20, 40, or 60gig hard drive?

Offline Joe w.

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #251 on: May 04, 2004, 07:42:56 PM »
Quote
Has nothing to do with needing more gain.  I would simply like to add a little color to my mics.  I ran a brick in front of a v3 about a half dozen times this past fall and I really liked the warm results.

just buy neumanns :P
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Offline Sean Gallemore

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #252 on: May 04, 2004, 07:48:10 PM »
d4r|< s1d3 pwn5 j00

Offline wboswell

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #253 on: May 04, 2004, 09:49:29 PM »
darkside definately ownz

marc0789

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Re:SOUND DEVICES 7-SERIES RECORDER UPDATE
« Reply #254 on: May 05, 2004, 09:39:48 AM »
If you take a look at the SD website, they mention that 'mic in' on the unit offers continuous analog gain and that 'line in' on the unit has .5 db stepped attenuation.  Nutter inquired about the stepped attenuation and they responded that it would leave noisey artifacts.  

Will Doug be able to modify the FR-2 so that its the same size as the 722 and has a 20, 40, or 60gig hard drive?


2800 and noisy artifacts line-in? Probably too much gain to be able to run outboard fixed gain pre anyway? Was this a collaborative effort with apogee? Pretty presumptuous of SD to build something that is going to be essentially a one-box, when they have never built an a/d and the best pre they have turned out is the MP-2? Weak  :fullmoon:

 

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