Topic: mic upgrade advice

[jjazzfusion]

Dear Friends,

I want to upgrade my Core Sound mid-grade binaurals (w/ switchable bass roll-off box) with a decent set of Sound Professionals cardioids. I record jazz and jazz fusion, mostly is small/medium clubs. Can anyone suggest a setup I should consider? Any help you could offer would be highly appreciated. TYIA....

[su6oxone]

Budget?  And do you want interchangeable capsules (omni, cardioid, subs, hypers, etc.)? 

[Belexes]

I like the AT 853 series of mics. From SP, they are the SP-CMC-4U's.

http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

[sparkey]

The ADK's are large diaphragm and have switchable pickup patters....a pair of them was listed here recently for $450, which is a steal IMO.

[fmaderjr]

I like the AT 853 series of mics. From SP, they are the SP-CMC-4U's.

Absolutely. Don't get the low sensitivity option. For the kind of music you record, it would just cause you to need more gain from the recorder at a cost of more noise. Don't even think of 'upgrading" to the CMC-9 micros. They cost more and the cards don't sound as good. They are just smaller and it doesn't sound like you are stealthing. Later you can add other types of caps, if you wish.

Since you are recording music that is not overly loud, I would suggest thinking of using a small preamp instead of a battery box to power the mics. I love the Church Audio ST-9100, which will give you an extra 20 dB of clean gain at a very reasonable price.

[jjazzfusion]

Budget?  And do you want interchangeable capsules (omni, cardioid, subs, hypers, etc.)?

I'd like to spend around $300-$350. The interchangeable capsules sound like a great idea, but arent they a little pricey?

[jjazzfusion]

The ADK's are large diaphragm and have switchable pickup patters....a pair of them was listed here recently for $450, which is a steal IMO.

Do they make anything for stealth recording?

[jjazzfusion]

I like the AT 853 series of mics. From SP, they are the SP-CMC-4U's.

Absolutely. Don't get the low sensitivity option. For the kind of music you record, it would just cause you to need more gain from the recorder at a cost of more noise. Don't even think of 'upgrading" to the CMC-9 micros. They cost more and the cards don't sound as good. They are just smaller and it doesn't sound like you are stealthing. Later you can add other types of caps, if you wish.

Since you are recording music that is not overly loud, I would suggest thinking of using a small preamp instead of a battery box to power the mics. I love the Church Audio ST-9100, which will give you an extra 20 dB of clean gain at a very reasonable price.

I record at various volumes, from low acoustic to very loud and boomy. Any suggestions? As for the mic sensitivity,  I figure I can just use the Edirol switch? And where can I buy the Church Audio preamp?

[su6oxone]

You have multiple options in your price range and recording situations.  I would probably recommend Church Audio CA-11 (with switcheable card/omni caps) and a Church Audio 9100 preamp.  All can be purchased directly from Chris Church (see 'retail' subforum) or from other members used (see 'yard sale' subforum). 

Other options include the Church Audio CA-14 cards +/- omnis (non-switcheable caps, non-removeable windscreens), the Audio Technica AT853 (sold by sound professionals as 'sp-cmc-4')  with switcheable caps (cards/subs/hypers/omnis/shotguns), the Microphone Madness HLSC-1 cards, and probably some others that I can't recall.  Of course, it's always wise to try to listen to as many samples of recordings made with these different mics before buying any of them.  Archive.org is of course the easiest way to do this (just search for the mics, e.g. 'at853' and a ton of recordings for each will show up).  Good luck!

[Shadow_7]

What sort of proximity do you have to the source?

What's the budget?

Any special needs?  Stealth?  Switchable caps?  Low power usage?

I like my STO-2's, what you hear is what you get.  But a high noise floor, power hungry, and other quirks.  Busman BSC1's seem similar although a lower SPL peak and lower noise.  And not stealthy at all.  I'm not one for stealth.  I just want the best capture regardless of weather and location.  And on a budget (< the costs of my car, and I have a cheap albeit new-ish car, at least it was new when I bought it).

[fmaderjr]

Any suggestions? As for the mic sensitivity,  I figure I can just use the Edirol switch? And where can I buy the Church Audio preamp?

If you record loud stuff at times, the music may be too loud for the AT853 caps unless you order them with the low sensitivity option. Switches on the recorder won't help if is the mics (as opposed to the recorder preamp) that is overloading.

You have 2 options with the AT mics:
1) Get the mics with the low sensitivity option and a regular ST-9100 preamp. The preamp's extra 20 dB of clean gain will help any potential noise problem when you record quiet stuff.
2) Get the mics without the option (and order them with mini-XLR connectors). Then have Chris Church build you a SA-9100 with mini-XLR inputs and a switchable 4.7 ohm resistor mod. When you throw the switch, your mics become low sensitiveity and won't distort at high SPL's. When the switch is off, you have an extra 10 dB or so of output. Talk Chris about this before you order your SP mics. He'll giive you an honest opinion about what is best for you. If he says that the quietest music you record is not too quiet for a set up of his own CA-14 cardiod mics and a regular ST-9100, I would consider that option as well. The CA-14 is a great mic (but all of them are low sensitivity).

Contact Chris Church by PMing him here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500

Do not buy his stuff off E-Bay. He gives discounts to taperssection members.

[su6oxone]

Do not buy his stuff off E-Bay. He gives discounts to taperssection members.

Sound Pros (soundprofessionals.com) also gives a 10% discount with the code: 'taperssection' (or maybe it's 'taperssection.com' can't remember) so don't forget that if you order from there.

[sparkey]

The ADK's are large diaphragm and have switchable pickup patters....a pair of them was listed here recently for $450, which is a steal IMO.

Do they make anything for stealth recording?

Nothing with switchable patterns.  If your heart is set on stealthing, I'd say the DPA 4060's.

[guysonic]

Dear Friends,

I want to upgrade my Core Sound mid-grade binaurals (w/ switchable bass roll-off box) with a decent set of Sound Professionals cardioids. I record jazz and jazz fusion, mostly is small/medium clubs. Can anyone suggest a setup I should consider? Any help you could offer would be highly appreciated. TYIA....

Jazz fusion is often as loud as any pop/rock venue, so lower sensitivity mics or ones handling over 128 dB SPL is required.  Same mics can be used for acoustic if self noise is low, and deck or external preamplfier is quiet type.

If you have Edirol R-09, then deck is noisy needing external preamp as suggested in my tech review of this model at: www.sonicstudios.com/r-09revw.htm

If having 09HR, then deck is fairly quiet type especially with deck mic powering turned off, or if using suggested Sonic Studios DSM-6S/L mic, then this deck can be upgraded with MOD-4 so mic powering is quiet, and also powers this model of mic directly. 
See review at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

Another option, shown in the reviews, with either model Edirol is using external PA-3SX preamplfier so DSM mic is powered, and line input makes both decks equally good low noise performers.

There are some recordings done with various R-09 and R-09HR with/without preamplifiers using DSM-6S/L mics on my site at:
www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

And linked in the retail section at:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=83254.0;all

Recently added some motercycle recordings using DSM-6S/L mic model having pure conversations also recorded, so this model seems adequate for acoustic music with at least MOD-4 or external preamp.  These recordings at:
www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm

[Fried Chicken Boy]

If you're going the route of the AT853/SP-CMC-4U, I personally don't think you need the 4.7k/low sensitivity mod as along as you're powering them with a battery box or a Church pre, especially if you'll be recording acoustic jazz where the extra sensitivity could be an asset.  I've been using the stock configured SP-CMC-2 (AT831's) for a couple years now, have recorded quite a few very loud concerts and have never had them brickwall as long as I'm using a battery box.  FWIW, many people feel the AT853's are superior to the AT831's but the SPL specs are similar (within 6dB of each other).