Starting out St**lth style...

[Belexes]

Most tapers are snobs about gear and anal about mic positioning.

That's about 99% of the folks here.  I taped a couple times with the D50 internals, but most certainly positioned the mics towards the sound source and not shirt-pocket-up-to-the-sky.  If you are going to do that, the omnis in the R09/R09HR are a better option.

[rhinowing]

^^ agreed. I pulled some reasonable tapes with my R-09 doing the shirt pocket thing

[acidjack]

Again, I don't think I'm challenging the *quality* of the D50 internals. I am questioning the utility of pointing a cardiod mic at the ceiling (which is what you'd be doing in a shirt pocket), in any application.

I did think your recording sounded pretty good considering the positioning - and I agree that the D50 is a quality, solid deck.  But I don't think it's being "snobby" to suggest that results would improve *for the OP's intended use* with external mics that could be positioned properly.

But as my football coach used to say, "opinions are like axxholes... everybody's got one, and they all stink..."

Whatever.  OP, please read my responses and judge for yourself if the D50 will work for you and how you might like to apply it.  The internal mics are adjustable between 120 degrees incident angle and 0 degrees.  If that works for you, then there's a chance that the internals might work for you.  If it doesn't then by all means, external mics are the better option. 

Most tapers are snobs about gear and anal about mic positioning.  The general opinion is that internal mics on gear are garbage and, with every other deck I've owned that has internal mics, I agree.  I'm simply stating that the D50's were a very pleasant surprise and you might want to consider the D50 over the R09HR because the internals will give you a decent sounding option for recording that you don't have with the R09HR.

[stevetoney]

I did think your recording sounded pretty good considering the positioning - and I agree that the D50 is a quality, solid deck.  But I don't think it's being "snobby" to suggest that results would improve *for the OP's intended use* with external mics that could be positioned properly.

Thank you...you are right.  OP please disregard my previous reference to tapers being snobby. 

[Belexes]

This snobby taper has used D50 internals pointed towards the sound source and received good results, but in "open" taping situations only.

[stevetoney]

Most tapers are snobs about gear and anal about mic positioning.

That's about 99% of the folks here.  I taped a couple times with the D50 internals, but most certainly positioned the mics towards the sound source and not shirt-pocket-up-to-the-sky.  If you are going to do that, the omnis in the R09/R09HR are a better option.

I understand and basically agree, but as you've pointed out, it all depends on positioning.  All the venues I record at in here in Pittsburgh except one has the PA speakers overhead.  If I position myself near the front of the stage, set D50 internal mics at 45 degrees, and put the recorder in a shirt pocket, each mic will be pointing pretty directly towards each PA speaker.  Just sayin'. 

Having said that, yeah, there's no doubt that if the speakers are on the sides of the stage or sitting on the floor, you might want to take the recorder out and somehow stealthily get the mics pointed at the speakers.  I've seen people standing near the stage holding the recorder...or of course external mics in a hat is the most popular method (sorry to those that don't like this discussion being public...it's not like the hat is any secret or that there's anything legitimately illegitimate about using stealth recording technique).

[stevetoney]

This snobby taper has used D50 internals pointed towards the sound source and received good results, but in "open" taping situations only.

Agree...but that's also again why I posted that sample earlier...to provide an actual sample (rather than a taper debate) to help the OP hear what might be expected when perhaps a not-so-open situation is encountered with the D50 internals.

[jlykos]

Hate to rain on everybody's parade here, but I really didn't think that the internals on the D50 were all that special.  They were narrow-sounding and accentuated the high frequencies too much.  A halfway decent set of stealth mics (Core-Sound, Church, etc.) is far, far superior.

[stevetoney]

Hate to rain on everybody's parade here, but I really didn't think that the internals on the D50 were all that special.  They were narrow-sounding and accentuated the high frequencies too much.  A halfway decent set of stealth mics (Core-Sound, Church, etc.) is far, far superior.

Aargh.  Rest assured this is the last time I'll mention anything about the internals on the D50.        Never intended to imply that they were SPECIAL.  Only that they might warrant consideration by the OP as a potential solution to his near term issue of having to wait a couple months for a set of CA-14's.

[Belexes]

These mics would be great to get for your outdoor festivals:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=134813.0

Normally CA mics take weeks to make, but these are already completed. Mine should arrive any day now. 

[jlykos]

Hate to rain on everybody's parade here, but I really didn't think that the internals on the D50 were all that special.  They were narrow-sounding and accentuated the high frequencies too much.  A halfway decent set of stealth mics (Core-Sound, Church, etc.) is far, far superior.

Aargh.  Rest assured this is the last time I'll mention anything about the internals on the D50.        Never intended to imply that they were SPECIAL.  Only that they might warrant consideration by the OP as a potential solution to his near term issue of having to wait a couple months for a set of CA-14's.

I'm not saying it's a bad approach; it just may not be the most cost-effective one.  I think that a Sony PCM-M10 and a set of stealth mics would yield better results than just the D50.  The M10 costs less than the D50 and while its internal mics are likely worse, you would not have to worry about using them if you get a set of good, low-cost stealth mics.  I would wager a guess that a M10 + stealth mics (perhaps used) are equal to the price of just a D50.

[acidjack]

^^^ If wait time is an issue the turnaround from Sound Pros is more like 7 days at most.  IMHO their product is pretty comparable.

[NSL]

Anybody with a Tascam DR07 tried using the internal mics on them?  Might try them out until my CA11's arrive.

[nameloc01]

running on-board factory mics on any recording deck, from your shirt pocket,pants pocket,crotch,wifes purse...whatever...should be a "plan B"..

boggles my mind there is even a debate about this.

[Fonky]

Knowing nothing about all the different set ups before I found this place, I'm grateful for all the opinions/ideas here. In my original post I shoulda said I wanted to spend around £400-500 for the lot. Looks like I'm going for one set of externals (For now), the SP-CMC-4U with LOW SENS MOD, cardiod capsules, with the SPSB-8 batt. box and the R-09hr. I'll add to it when the money's rolling in instead of out again. Gotta say thanks to AcidJack for helping me out with allsorts. Nice one.