Sony PCM-M10 (Part 3)

[visibility]

There are mics made by chris church. i'll use his ca-1s as an example. they are two mono microphones that terminate to a 1/8" plug that goes in the line-in on the m10. essentially one is left audio and one is right audio. there are single point stereo mics. that means one mic has a capsule for left and a capsule for right audio that plugs into a 1/8" adapter.

what kind of music are you interested in recording? the ca-1 i mentioned does not require a battery box and will run on the plug in power provided by the m10.

Not music Rastasean but ambient soundscapes.

The two mono CA-1 setup might work if it is not too expensive. Can I ask why this plugs in to Line-In and not the mic jack? Also do you have a link for specs and pricing in these mics? All I could find from Googling is a reseller page on eBay selling Church mics and I could not find the CA-1.

Thanks.

[visibility]

You might head over to groups.yahoo.com and review messages on the naturerecordists forum. There's been some traffic about using the M10 for ambient nature sounds. Historically, the Audio Technica AT3032 were regarded as the lowest noise, best value omni mics for nature recording. They would require a preamp, however. I used my Church Audio omnis (CA-11?) that terminate into a stereo mini plug, split about 3 feet  the other day to record a chamber music concert and the results were just fine.

Thanks I will check that site out.

Do you have a link for info and pricing on the church CA-11? The only thing I can find is Chinese made cartidges here: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Microphone-Cartridges.html.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

Do you have a link for info and pricing on the church CA-11? The only thing I can find is Chinese made cartidges here: http://www.chinese-microphone.com/Microphone-Cartridges.html.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136212.0

[fmaderjr]

The two mono CA-1 setup might work if it is not too expensive. Can I ask why this plugs in to Line-In and not the mic jack? Also do you have a link for specs and pricing in these mics? All I could find from Googling is a reseller page on eBay selling Church mics and I could not find the CA-1.
Thanks.

If not using a battery box to power the mics you must go mic in. Raastasean just assumed readers would know this.

Do not ever buy Church Audio gear from his E-Bay site. He gives a discount to tapessection members and much of his equipment is not available there. Send him a PM here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500

[visibility]

Do not ever buy Church Audio gear from his E-Bay site. He gives a discount to tapessection members and much of his equipment is not available there. Send him a PM here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500

Great - thanks for the advice and PM address. I will make some enquiries.

[guysonic]

My question is whether post production manipulation of the stereo image to produce wider stereo separation loses much signal in the process and sounds 'natural'. I have heard some samples of this also on this forum and it sounds better than nonprocessed but as I eventually plan to burn these images to CD for family, friends, and patients (I'm a shrink), I want it to sound as natural as possible.

I know very little about external mics except that they seem to be very expensive. I would rather not have to bother with them but if what I want cannot be achieved with internal mics I may have to go that way. Can I ask in practice how this would work given there in only a single stereo in socket? I am guessing you would use two mono mics spliced into the stereo input? Can anyone recommend suitable but not overly expensive external mics for this function? I will be recording in the wilderness so I can't be lugging too much equipment.

The M10 has some compelling selling points and sounds perfect for my needs except for the stereo separation issue. I would be grateful of your responses and views.

Many thanks.

Satisfying for what seems important to you means having budget for external mics. 

For this suggest my own brand of stereo-surround baffled mics configured with windscreen headband good for all indoor/especially outdoor conditions.  DSM-1S/H mic model seems most appropriate for lowest noise recording of natural-acoustic sounds.  More  info about M10 deck and models of these mics in the retail section at:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=83254.0 Samples at http://www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm

[OFOTD]

guysonic,

Please take your advertisements to the Retail Space section where they belong.   http://taperssection.com/index.php?board=22.0

Thanks!

[OFOTD]

I could care less that you don't have support from your customers .   That's your problem not the membership here.   Passing the buck and blaming your company's problems on CA owners, DAT-Heads mods or any 'political climate' around here is just lame.  Who wants to buy something from someone who whines like you just did?  Really?   So instead of blaming things on others why don't you look at yourself and see what YOU are doing to dissuade business or dissuade your customers from coming forward.  Blaming others isn't the correct reason.   Your business can either end up like CA or end up like Len's business around here, you control that.  I think its pretty obvious about people's opinions about the two companies are.   


The real issue here is entirely the fact that your advertisement should be in the Retail Space forum and not in this thread.    Period. 



ETA: guysonic has now deleted a post above this one.

[Carrera2]

I still cannot explain why Samplitude V8SE causes static and dropouts at file splits when joining files that were split on the M10 and not when joining files recorded and split on R09. Oh well. M10 files seem to join properly in Audacity and in Samplitude V10 Master.

Around the time I was testing file splits, I also ran several comparisons:

internal mics > M10
internal mics > R09
853 omnis > CA9100 > M10
853 omnis > CA9100 > R09
CA cards > PIP > M10
CA cards > PIP > R09
AKG C480B/CK61 > V3 > M10

The CA9100 was providing 8.7 volts. Files at 48/24. If anyone is interested in hearing any of these, let me know.

[earmonger]

Do not ever buy Church Audio gear from his E-Bay site. He gives a discount to tapessection members and much of his equipment is not available there. Send him a PM here.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=14500

Great - thanks for the advice and PM address. I will make some enquiries.

By the way, another reason not to use internal mics on the M!0 is that their bass rolls off steeply at about 80 Hz. Your rain, waterfalls, etc. are basically white noise, covering the whole audio spectrum, and will sound a lot more majestic with microphones that capture the full 20-20,000 Hz of the human listening experience.

Look at frequency range for any mics you do get.

[Carrera2]

You piqued my interest. I played loud white noise on my stereo and recorded with the internal mics and some Church mics. I can definitely see less lower frequency content in the internals. And, of course, my speakers and other components play a role, although they generally seem to be pretty flat.

[Edited as suggested below by Brian Skalinder to reflect linear scale on both. My bad. Also reduced image sizes a bit more. Although I do not understand guysonics following note, I did record the internals on the "hi" mic sensitivity since the levels were so low with the "low" setting.]

With the M10 internal mics:




With Church mics > M10:

[Brian Skalinder]

I can definitely see less lower frequency content in the internals.

It's a little hard for me to see, considering one uses a linear horizontal scale, the other log scale.  Maybe re-analyze on same scale?

[guysonic]

FWIW M10 analog measured electrical signal low frequency response changes with MIC input sensitivity switch setting.

MIC setting in LOW ....... - 3 dB @ 15 cycles (-3 dB is technical bandwidth cutoff frequency)
MIC setting in HIGH ...... - 3 dB @ 24 cycles (~ -4 dB @ 20 cycles)

Likely input setting affects BOTH internal mic/external mic low frequency bandwidth performance. 

Suggest always stating M10 input switch setting used when showing internal/external mic frequency plots

[Carrera2]

I can definitely see less lower frequency content in the internals.

It's a little hard for me to see, considering one uses a linear horizontal scale, the other log scale.  Maybe re-analyze on same scale?

I edited and reposted the screenshots above. Good catch. I guess I had switched back and forth a couple of times.

[visibility]

Can I ask Australian members where you purchased your M10?

It is tempting to purchase from the US at a current price of AU$269.40 delivered (B&H). The cheapest delivered price I can find locally seems to be AU$421.05 at TechBuy.com.au or AU$449.00 at Minidisc.com.au

The Sony Australia RRP is AU$449.00 so there is little to no competitive pricing here. In fact, some businesses are advertising the M10 way above the RRP. For instance, you can pick one up at proaudio.com.au for the outrageous price of AU$634.00 delivered!!

My concerns about buying it from the US are the warranty issue and possible import duty. Even if the import duty was on par with the GST I'd still be saving a huge amount. To date I have never had to pay duty on items purchased from the US so I could be lucky.

Can anyone clarify whether the warranty would be transferrable? If it isn't it should be in this day where we effectively live in a global village with various trade agreements in place. Of course I would rather buy locally but the prices here are absolutely absurd and bordering on offensive.