Topic: Confused about equipment...

[Nielsen81]

B+H? I've seen that name before, but whats the webadress?

[achalsey]

If you're a beginner and looking to just get your feet wet and still make great recordings (as it sounds like you're trying to do) go with the CA-14 card/omni and 9100 package from Chris.  This thread already has loads of good info but seems to be slightly off the point of "I want to record, tell me what to get."  The CA-14s are the safest, easiest here it seems.

You don't need a battery box.  Go with the CA-9100 preamp if you're going with Church mics already.  This way you will be able to power you mics more than sufficiently and add gain to the signal strength as necessary.  acidjack is probably right, if its loud enough you might not need a pre, but if you're already going with the mics its definitely a good thing to have in your "bag" just in case.  If its your first rig why not throw down a little extra to get the ability to add gain with the pre than just buy the battery box and be limited by what you have?

As for the recorder here is a discussion about the M10 vs. R09HR:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133149.0

To be honest, I assume most of the newcomers (like myself) are not audiophiles and don't do our research and most are looking for "tell me what sounds good."  Thats what I did (ultimately w/ the ca14s > 9100/UA5 > H120/r09) and am really happy with the results.  So, unless you're REALLY looking at the subtle aspects with what you get out of "budget" equipment, there probably won't be much difference between the M10 and R09HR.  Except for maybe the A/D conversion, many people will tell you a bit bucket is a bit bucket.  As long as it turns your wave lengths into 1s and 0s you're in good shape, so don't fret too much.

edit:  its early so I'm grumpy (sorry) but google is your friend:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/

[Nielsen81]

Thank you very much guys:)
I now know what equipment, I should go hunting for

[Shadow_7]

budget and goals make a big impact too.  I'm not a stealth type, so I've got bigger eyes than I do pockets.  But I'm in the for long haul I guess and will likely sink $1K into my gear over several years.  On the pro-ish side, you need preamps, there's just no way around it.  They power mics that need power and provide a lot of clean-ish gain.  So you can record a rock concert, or a flute trio.  And get respectable results with both, even if you use all the same gear.

If you're always going to have I can't hear myself talk sources and proximity to them, you can get by with a battery box and mics that work in that type of chain.  If you want to stealth, it's kind of hard to lug a rack in and not get noticed.  So pluses and minuses with either.  I'm almost to the point of needing a golf club bag with wheels to haul my stuff around so go with what's best for you.

Simple setup.

Mics -> Battery Box -> Recorder


Not so simple:

Mics -> stereo bar -> boom arm -> mic stand -> XLR to XLR cables x2 -> Preamps x2 -> XLR to TRS cables x2 -> Field Recorder


Pro Simple:
- cheap (or not)
- fits in one pocket (200lbs+ so I have big pockets)
- runs for hours on a few batteries
- fairly simple to weather proof (one umbrella or one trashcan / ziplock bag)


Pro Not so simple:
- immune from cell phone handshakes (mostly)
- low noise floor so you can play it safe on even quiet sources and get usable results
- bought used, so it retains most of it's value over time.  And has a market interested in used versions.
- Can upgrade any unit in the chain with better gear as resources allow
  (new mics and stuff can make it a completely different ball game)


Cons Simple:
- limited selection of mics.  Most of which aren't really that good.
- limits in general


Cons Not so simple:
- heavy
- expensive
- risky
- any one part breaks (or not loaded) all parts rendered inert.

[fmaderjr]

B+H? I've seen that name before, but whats the webadress?

Type B&H into Google-it's the first choice that comes up.

You rarely should need to ask for web addresses here- in most cases if you type the company name into Google it's one of the first choices. If that doesn't turn anything up, then ask.

[adrianf74]

@acidjack: Not interested in a p*ssing contest.  I'm just stating from my own experiencs that, with the CAFS-OMNI, a battery box, and an Edirol R-09 (not HR), I have maxed out the line level input on my recorder MORE THAN ONE TIME.  That's why I suggest the pre-amp.  For one of those times, I wish I'd had the pre-amp because it would have given me a MUCH BETTER recording than the one I pulled.

@all:
I think the OP has made a wise decision with the CA-14(o, c) + ST-9100 pre-amp.  For the price, having the options of cards or omnis and a preamp for $300 is impressive (and I do like the sound of these mics better than other options I'd looked at in this price-point).

For a recorder, I'd definitely say get the M10.  It has 4GB internal memory (enough for 4-hours or so at 24/48) and an awesome battery life of over 20 hours record time.  If B&H still has it for $200, you're laughing.  I remember when I bought my R09, I got it used for around $325 - it was selling new for $450 here in Canada at the time.

Just remember to enjoy the shows while you roll.

[fmaderjr]

I'm just stating from my own experiencs that, with the CAFS-OMNI, a battery box, and an Edirol R-09 (not HR), I have maxed out the line level input on my recorder MORE THAN ONE TIME.  That's why I suggest the pre-amp.  For one of those times, I wish I'd had the pre-amp because it would have given me a MUCH BETTER recording than the one I pulled.

For recording loud rock, a battery box alone will suffice, but for maximum versatility a pre like the ST-9100 is indispensable.

All the Church Audio mics are not very sensitive, so when recording stuff that isn't very loud you may need to crank up the gain. Some recorders, including the R-09, can add a lot of noise when you crank them up beyond a certain point, so in these situations a good preamp can GREATLY improve the sound. Even with more sensitive mics and a recorder with a quieter preamp (like the M10) an external pre may improve the sound even though the difference may not be as obvious.

[aaronji]

For recording loud rock, a battery box alone will suffice, but for maximum versatility a pre like the ST-9100 is indispensable.

For maximum versatility, personally, I would prefer a pre with more gain than the 9100.  I tape a lot of quieter stuff and the 20 dB it provides just isn't enough sometimes...

 
Even with more sensitive mics and a recorder with a quieter preamp (like the M10) an external pre may improve the sound even though the difference may not be as obvious.

Then again, it may not.  Pretty subjective, especially since the pre will be adding it's own element to the sound.  The one-size-fits-all "CA-14 > CA-9100" doesn't work for all of the people all of the time!  Just my two cents...

[su6oxone]

B+H? I've seen that name before, but whats the webadress?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Great B&M (brick and mortar) shop in Manhattan.  Check it out next time you're in NYC. 

[fmaderjr]

For recording loud rock, a battery box alone will suffice, but for maximum versatility a pre like the ST-9100 is indispensable.

For maximum versatility, personally, I would prefer a pre with more gain than the 9100.  I tape a lot of quieter stuff and the 20 dB it provides just isn't enough sometimes...

Can't argue with that for those who record a lot of quiet stuff. I guess I meant maximum flexibility for a minimum cost.

 
Even with more sensitive mics and a recorder with a quieter preamp (like the M10) an external pre may improve the sound even though the difference may not be as obvious.

Then again, it may not.  Pretty subjective, especially since the pre will be adding it's own element to the sound.  The one-size-fits-all "CA-14 > CA-9100" doesn't work for all of the people all of the time!  Just my two cents...

Can't really disagree with that either although I can't hear it adding anything to the recording but gain. I really did mean "may improve" the sound (not will improve), but to my ears getting as much gain from the ST-9100 as possible is certainly not ever going to degrade the sound, so I go ahead & use it whenever possible.

[acidjack]

@acidjack: Not interested in a p*ssing contest.  I'm just stating from my own experiencs that, with the CAFS-OMNI, a battery box, and an Edirol R-09 (not HR), I have maxed out the line level input on my recorder MORE THAN ONE TIME.  That's why I suggest the pre-amp.  For one of those times, I wish I'd had the pre-amp because it would have given me a MUCH BETTER recording than the one I pulled.

The R-09 is a different beast than the -09HR, including having a much worse line level input from what I hear, so I am sure you're right that a pre is unfortunately in order with that particular deck.  Fortunately, assuming the OP goes with any of today's models that are decent, like the M10 or the Tascam machines (or the -09HR), the OP will not have the particular issues you have with the R-09.  For a beginner, and even now, I find dealing with an outboard pre (especially stealthing) to be a pretty annoying inconvenience, since you now have two level controls to deal with, not to mention a bigger box.  Hence the number of posts on here about "where do I set my levels on the 9100 vs. the deck", which are invariably followed by an array of conflicting responses.  People seem to be consistently confused about what the pre is supposed to do, what "unity gain" is, etc. etc.  In addition, I have always found that in the rare circumstances where I could not get decent gain using a 9v battery box, I could simply use the mic-in, as I did once when running 4021s>Denecke PS/2 (basically just the 48V version of the 9v battery boxes everyone uses with smaller mics, in that it provides no gain).  I did it mic-in for one band and line-in for the other.  Other than having much improved levels on the mic-in version, the sound quality was quite similar.  But again, this is with the M10, which is usually acknowledged to have a decent built-in mic pre.

[Nielsen81]

B+H? I've seen that name before, but whats the webadress?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com

Great B&M (brick and mortar) shop in Manhattan.  Check it out next time you're in NYC. 

Haha, sad to say so, but I never think I will be going to the US :/
I'm from Denmark (and heartproblems keeps me away from airplanes...just in case)