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Author Topic: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?  (Read 12275 times)

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Offline brewcrew87

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Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« on: January 04, 2011, 09:19:01 PM »
I am a relatively new taper. i am just finishing school, so i dont have that much to spend. I taped previously with Behringer c2`s, but they sounded like crap. Is the busman bsc1 any better? there website advertises a pair for $450

Offline newplanet7

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 09:44:59 PM »
Many. many fellas here swear by the busmans.
If you Google live music archive and seach for the busman mics you will get plenty of hits.
Here ya go for samples.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=bsc1%20AND%20collection%3Aetree
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Offline setboy

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 09:51:04 PM »
Great mics. I hear his upgraded caps make them even better
where has the respect gone?
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Offline DigiGal

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2011, 12:04:05 AM »
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 | Shure VP88 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 "StarQuad" w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SoundDevices MixPre-D Recorder: Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 27" 3.4GHz QuadCore i7 iMac | OS X High Sierra 10.13.6 | Wave Editor | xACT  | Transmission | Final Cut Pro X                                                            

Offline Belexes

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2011, 08:51:23 AM »
They are an incredible value considering 4 capsules, shockmounts, and a T bar are thrown in. I love them and am considering the new capsules.  :hmmm:
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Offline burris

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 09:31:32 AM »
The Busman mics are relabeled Chinese mics, they might not even be substantially different from the Behringer C2.

You're better off getting one good solid pair of cardioids rather than eight mediocre mics.  It seems like a great deal but you don't need all those patterns.  A pair of cardioids will work in any situation.  ZMan made like 275 great recordings last year and he used nothing but a single pair of top quality cardioids.  Same as the year before, and the year before that...  Even with four caps you don't get the most useful one aside from cardioid, a figure-of-eight.

YMMV but I think the Busman mics (and all the white labeled Chinese mics I've heard) don't sound all that great as a main stereo pair.  Sure, they sound miles better than the complete shit mics based on $1.50 capsules from Panasonic, but really flat and natural sounding mics can be had for not much more.

Mics are mechanical devices that last a lifetime unlike recorders which you'll replace every few years.  Whatever you do, don't waste your money on a deck mod or fancy cables when you could have invested that money in better mics.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 10:11:49 AM »
I'm in agreement with burris in general, but would simply boil it down to:  allocate the biggest chunk of your budget to mics, and get the best mics you like within your budget. 

Sometimes "not much more" is too much for an already stretched budget.  I've not followed gear prices too closely the last couple years, but I don't know of (m)any better sounding cardioid-only mics within ~$33% of the BSC-1's price point (~$600 budget; with the exception of perhaps the AT 4041s).*  Anything higher priced than that and you're talking a substantial increase in budget, at which point one probably wouldn't consider the BSC-1s, anyway, and would be looking at other options.

The BSC-1's aren't the greatest sounding mics, but they sound pretty darn good, and noticeably better to my ears than many other low-cost mics.  And that's why they're reasonably popular:  they represent an excellent value (performance/price) for those recording on a budget.

* I suppose someone will inevitably mention a pair of used AKG 391s, but I don't care for their (or in general the AKG small diaphragm) sound.
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Offline bluelawn

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 11:15:40 AM »
I'd look for a used pair of Audio Technica 4041's, we got a pair purchased used for $300 and made tons of great recordings.
i have since got some Milabs, and while i haven't used them, i still can seem to let go of the AT's.
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 11:37:08 AM »
All good advice...  I'd also suggest looking at the AT 4021s, 4041s and 4051s.  I believe one of those AT series are switchable pattern, too, but as Burris points out, really, one set of excellent cards used by someone who knows what they're doing is the ticket most of the time (although I'd also put in that one pair of excellent hypers is also awfully handy if you record in places that are indoors and noisy).

It is worth noting that those AT mics cost more than those $500 Busmans, at least new.
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Offline halleyscomet8

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2011, 12:08:44 PM »
i would like to say that i really like my busmans. i have been using them since the first batch he made. and i will continue to use them until i can drop a few thousand on something better. i have new handmade capsule that he is offering now and that has really improved the overall sound too. listen to some bsc1 recordings on the lma and compare them to other sources from the same show. the lma has a nice (check for other copies) option. so, listen a lot and let your ears decide.

there are plenty of recordings in my sig. link.
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2011, 12:52:01 PM »
It seems like a great deal but you don't need all those patterns.  A pair of cardioids will work in any situation.
1)how can you say that without knowing what situations this person records in? Depending on what and where he records those different patterns may be very useful.

2) yes a pair of cardiods will work in any situation. as in they will pick up sound. however there are plenty of situations where a pair of cardiods is not the best option.

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2011, 02:37:12 PM »
The BSC-1's aren't the greatest sounding mics, but they sound pretty darn good, and noticeably better to my ears than many other low-cost mics.  And that's why they're reasonably popular:  they represent an excellent value (performance/price) for those recording on a budget.

* I suppose someone will inevitably mention a pair of used AKG 391s, but I don't care for their (or in general the AKG small diaphragm) sound.

I think you hit it, they are an excellent value for what you pay, especially if you can pick them up used. IMHO, they don't hold up against neumann, beyer, schoeps, or milabs, but they are also almost half to a third of the cost. Is the difference worth it? Probably not at this point in your taping career.

I was going to say the AKGs as well,  :P but I don't care for the sound also, some do, some don't and the OP should consider them because they might like that sound. The Church Audio 14s might also be something to consider if you are not wedded to phantom power. I generally put them in the same category of high value for what you pay, and then save your money for something better down the road.

It seems like a great deal but you don't need all those patterns.  A pair of cardioids will work in any situation.
2) yes a pair of cardiods will work in any situation. as in they will pick up sound. however there are plenty of situations where a pair of cardiods is not the best option.

Shawn ftw.

If you're just starting out, chances are you aren't going to pull a tape comparable to zman's out of the gate. It could be you aren't comfortable or capable of running up front, or you are still learning how to tell by sight and sound how a room will operate, but having the extra caps can help and can be a learning experience. The caps won't fix everything, but will help.

burris made some valid points, but I don't think that was one of them.
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Offline newplanet7

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2011, 03:10:31 PM »

Your favorite mics suck.  ;D
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2011, 03:55:07 PM »
All good advice...  I'd also suggest looking at the AT 4021s, 4041s and 4051s.  I believe one of those AT series are switchable pattern, too, but as Burris points out, really, one set of excellent cards used by someone who knows what they're doing is the ticket most of the time (although I'd also put in that one pair of excellent hypers is also awfully handy if you record in places that are indoors and noisy).

It is worth noting that those AT mics cost more than those $500 Busmans, at least new.

Then why do I have 4 pairs?  And why are you getting one more pair -- though conveniently dropping me to 3 pairs as it raises you to 2.  :P  (Yours are on the way, BTW.  I'll send tracking shortly.)

My over-abundance of hypers that I'm working to pare back notwithstanding, I actually agree with Burris about the cardioids.  I've often owned cards only at several points in my taping career, and they are very versatile and you can make lots and lots of good tapes with just cards at your disposal.

I don't know that much about the Busmans' sound*, though I know a lot of people really like them.  So I can't comment on them specifically.  If they provide something in the same quality for the price as a single set of cardioids, obviously it can't hurt to have other patterns to play around with and try out given the right conditions. 

But I would agree with Burris in that if you can get better sound for the price for a cards only set, I'd recommend that option.  Even in cases where say you'd prefer using hypers, IME a good sounding set of cards will make better tapes than a mediocre set of hypers (not to say that the busmans are mediocre).  As a for instance, I was convinced recently to run my milab cards for a Phish show in a ~6,000 person hockey-type arena (from pretty far back).  Perfect place to use hypers, and I ran milab cards along with Gefell m210 hypers. I actually like the milab recording better, and Gefell m210's are pretty much the best hyper out there (again, IMNSHO).

I did actually "start" out with AT4041's (after upgrading from SoundPro micromics).  I got mine from 8th Street, which I see still sells a stereo pair of AT4041's for $500, so they can be had new for the same ballpark as busmans.  I'd certainly at least put them on the consideration list.

*note on my "experience" with the busmans: I've never owned or really listened that much to the Busman BSC1, but I did own for awhile a pair of busman-modded Avantone ck1's, which I'm led to believe are the same or very much like the BSC1's.  I liked them for sure.  To my ear better than the roughly similar (chinese) Studio Projects C4's and comparable to the ADK SC-T's.

To end this long ramble, in the way of Chinese mics, I've owned Studio Projects C4's, ADK SC-Ts, Busman modded Avantone CK1's, and now own Charter Oak m900's (similar to Pelusos I hear).  While I like having multiple patterns to play around with, I liked the sound of AT4041's better than all of these.  The usual caveat that ymmv and everyone's ears are different.
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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2011, 04:06:38 PM »
The BSC1's are great IMO.  Can't beat em for the price. 
And I don't think that there is anything similar at all about the BSC1's and "Chinese" mics except for the appearance.
As far as I know, Busman builds/wires the internals himself with high quality components where possible.  I believe that he uses the best components that he can use AND keep them at a price point that is affordable to most "invested" tapers/musicians.   And he provides excellent quality control and customer service.

They aren't a pair of Schoeps/Neumanns/Gefells.....  but they don't cost the same as a pair of Schoeps/Neumanns/Gefells either.
Even though my pair of BSC1's are on the back burner right now....  unless the day comes that I feel that they are obsolete for me, I can't imagine ever dumping em.....  they are worth way more than their price tag in my book.  Great sounding mics that won't give you an ulcer worrying about em when you have to go take a leak.

275(?) shows are a lot of shows....  but I guarantee that everyone could use a pair of hypers in their bag now and then.  zman's experience out-weighs his gear bag........  his experience helps him make great recordings with a single pair of mics. 

But I would agree that one pair of mics with single capsules can definitely be superior to one pair of mics with multiple capsules.  But the options for that scenario are slim when looking within a "reasonable" price range.

I think that burris is pissin on a product that he's not familiar with (no offense intended).  But then again...  I'm a Busman fluffer.

BSC1's come from NoCal....  not China.
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2011, 04:20:06 PM »
The BSC1's are great IMO.  Can't beat em for the price. 
And I don't think that there is anything similar at all about the BSC1's and "Chinese" mics except for the appearance.
As far as I know, Busman builds/wires the internals himself with high quality components where possible.  I believe that he uses the best components that he can use AND keep them at a price point that is affordable to most "invested" tapers/musicians.   And he provides excellent quality control and customer service.

They aren't a pair of Schoeps/Neumanns/Gefells.....  but they don't cost the same as a pair of Schoeps/Neumanns/Gefells either.
Even though my pair of BSC1's are on the back burner right now....  unless the day comes that I feel that they are obsolete for me, I can't imagine ever dumping em.....  they are worth way more than their price tag in my book.  Great sounding mics that won't give you an ulcer worrying about em when you have to go take a leak.

275(?) shows are a lot of shows....  but I guarantee that everyone could use a pair of hypers in their bag now and then.  zman's experience out-weighs his gear bag........  his experience helps him make great recordings with a single pair of mics. 

But I would agree that one pair of mics with single capsules can definitely be superior to one pair of mics with multiple capsules.  But the options for that scenario are slim when looking within a "reasonable" price range.

I think that burris is pissin on a product that he's not familiar with (no offense intended).  But then again...  I'm a Busman fluffer.

BSC1's come from NoCal....  not China.

He might do business out of NoCal - but I'd be certain the mics are manufactured in China...

But - I think the materials and circuits are all specified by Busman...and perhaps there is something he does to the capsules stateside.

I've held the Busmans and their twin, the Avantone CK1 - and the Busman is much heavier and seems a better build...and sounds much better to me.

And for the record, the Behr C2s do suck badly - the Avantones are much better for the price...

Chinese SDs are NOT all the same!!!

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2011, 04:27:34 PM »
^I'm no authority and could very well be wrong..... but doesn't Busman upgrade the critical internal guts....  which creates his own sonic signature?  I don't know how much difference it actually makes, but I'm pretty sure that Chinese mics don't feature van den Hul wiring.

I agree.... not all Chinese mics are the same.  That's why it can be a crap shoot with em......  poor quality control.
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Offline Belexes

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2011, 04:53:22 PM »
]It seems like a great deal but you don't need all those patterns.

You need more options than just cardioids for various different taping situations. To limit yourself to one pattern will not do you any favors.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2011, 06:02:59 PM »
^I'm no authority and could very well be wrong..... but doesn't Busman upgrade the critical internal guts....  which creates his own sonic signature?  I don't know how much difference it actually makes, but I'm pretty sure that Chinese mics don't feature van den Hul wiring.

I agree.... not all Chinese mics are the same.  That's why it can be a crap shoot with em......  poor quality control.

Semantics probably, but when I'm talking about chinese mics, I'm talking about components from china, particularly bodies and especially capsules.  I've heard some allusions to busman's new modified capsules, so I don't really know about those, but the BSC mics had originally been made using chinese bodies + capsules.  Busman definitely had his own stamp on them, either by specifying what electronics went into them or by stuffing and soldering them himself (don't know which one it is).

But this isn't different from any of the other companies selling "chinese" mics -- they aren't just one exact kind of mics with different brand names on them. There probably are lots and lots of different "chinese" mics based on internal designs and component selections.  A smaller range in capsule as many mics use the same capsules, though there are also some different capsules used in the various china-sourced mics.

Studio Projects and Behringer are probably specifying what they want too, like busman.  But I know that Pelusos and Charter Oaks are done the same way as Busmans -- use the chinese bodies and capsules and then provide their own electronics and components (again, I don't know if this is specified and then done in a chinese factory or done in-house by these microphone companies). 

Clearly the boards, circuit designs, components, build-quality, reliability, etc, can all vary on the chinese based mics. I'm sure Charter Oak and Peluso are just as proud of their mics are as Busman is, and their users are likewise just as proud (I know I have a high opinion of the Charter Oaks I have, having owned and used many of the other ones). To me though, that doesn't change the fact that they all fall into the camp of "chinese" mics.

Again, semantics really, but if Busmans (at least the original bsc mics) don't fall into the category of chinese mics, then neither should Charter Oaks, and Pelusos, and ADK's, and Avantones (and Rodes, and AKG Perceptions, etc, etc).
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Offline willndmb

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2011, 08:21:59 PM »
i like my BM mic set and have been thinking of selling it
if someone is interested PM me

reason for sale, just have not been using them as much as i had hoped and could use the money for other things in life
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Offline setboy

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2011, 09:28:32 PM »
]It seems like a great deal but you don't need all those patterns.

You need more options than just cardioids for various different taping situations. To limit yourself to one pattern will not do you any favors.

I agree. I almost never run cards with the venues I tape at.
where has the respect gone?
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2011, 09:36:45 PM »

Your favorite mics suck.  ;D

fair enough.  :D

In all seriousness though, it's why I advocate that the OP listens to the AKG blueline mics and see if that's something he's interested in. Just cause I don't like the house sound doesn't mean someone else might not, and at the end of the day, we're taping for ourselves first most of the time.

The SP C4s are sort of budget mics right? That would be another one to tack on the list maybe.
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Offline acidjack

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2011, 10:48:12 AM »
Quote
Then why do I have 4 pairs?  And why are you getting one more pair -- though conveniently dropping me to 3 pairs as it raises you to 2.  :P  (Yours are on the way, BTW.  I'll send tracking shortly.)

My over-abundance of hypers that I'm working to pare back notwithstanding, I actually agree with Burris about the cardioids.  I've often owned cards only at several points in my taping career, and they are very versatile and you can make lots and lots of good tapes with just cards at your disposal.


I think because I'm turning into as much of a gear slut as you are.  That being a compliment, of course  ;D
 
I tape indoors almost exclusively, and some of those venues are quite boomy.  Sometimes the mk41s, because of their flatter response, don't cut through that as much as I'd like.  As is probably true for you, hypers are more important to me than they are to others. 

But as it seems you also agree, if I only had one set of mics, it'd be a good pair of cardiods (although it'd be an awfully close race between them and the mk41s.  And I would rather have one pair of good cardiods than 5 crappy mics of different patterns (not that the Busmans are crappy; I've never used them.  I just mean generally). 

For the OP, it really comes down to, do you like the sound of the Busmans and the price?  If you do, buy them.  If you like the sound of the AT4041s or something else in that price range more, but are holding back because they're only one pattern and/or don't come with multiple caps, you probably ought to buy the cardiod mic you prefer the sound of instead of the Busmans.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline printguy

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2011, 11:05:42 AM »
I love my BSC1 set but would happily trade it for a pair of KM184s.
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Offline halleyscomet8

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2011, 11:27:49 AM »
i have only used my card caps once. i always use my subs or hypers
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Offline setboy

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2011, 04:44:37 PM »
I love my BSC1 set but would happily trade it for a pair of KM184s.
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2011, 08:59:35 PM »
What is the realistic top end of your budget?
Like page said, there are others like the AKG Blue Line, which I am not a fan of either BTW. Those were my first mics.
I have no experience with the busmans.

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2011, 01:39:06 AM »
One thing to keep in mind with TS products such as these mics, and perhaps the JK Labs box...  What can you expect out of long term service???  I would rather spend extra money knowing I could have my mics serviced in 20 years...  I would love to own Busman or Peluso mics, but can you expect the longevity of AKG out of them???

That being said, I own ADKs...

Terry

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Offline Todd R

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2011, 11:04:28 AM »
What can you expect out of long term service???  I would rather spend extra money knowing I could have my mics serviced in 20 years.

20 years? Who keeps mics 20 years? ??? ;)

I change my mics around more often than my wife changes purses. :P
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Offline Gil

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2011, 11:47:24 AM »
What can you expect out of long term service???  I would rather spend extra money knowing I could have my mics serviced in 20 years.

20 years? Who keeps mics 20 years? ??? ;)

I change my mics around more often than my wife changes purses. :P

I've only had mine for about five or six years, but I'm pretty sure they're at least as old as I am ;D

And while we're on the topic of cheap mics, I have to throw some support behind the Nak 300s and their OEM brethren.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2011, 11:49:13 AM by Porno Gil »
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2011, 07:44:51 AM »
Cheap mics can make great recordings. I have taped with my Busman's at shows with guys using Neumanns, DPA's, etc and prefer my Busmans.

The overall feeling on this board is that a $5000 - $7000 setup can't be topped and the ones who shell out the most make the best recordings.  ::)
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2011, 08:26:13 AM »
Cheap mics can make great recordings.

Absolutely. Sure, my AKG P170s aren't top-of-the-line, and the Vienna-built AKGs have objectively better specs (S/N ratio, for instance), but I've been happy with the results I've had using the 170s - even more so with the Littlebox in the chain. Even if I do make an upgrade (multipattern LDCs are on my radar, maybe a pair of AT4050s), I'm going to keep the budget AKGs in my arsenal.

Just like anything else in audio, as you spend more, you get diminishing returns.
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2011, 11:15:28 AM »
I bought darn near every budget and chinese mic available when I started this hobby. I found some great values and pulled some nice tapes.  That said, I could have saved myself a ton of time and money by investing in a world class pair of mics from the start. 

If you really can't afford akg or schoeps or you don't need the ego boost that those manufactures provide users, I would highly recomend the AT405x series microphones.  Not german, but the japs certainly do a better job than the chinese.  The 4051 sdc and the 4050 ldc can hold their own against any microphone imho. 
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2011, 11:48:56 AM »
Cheap mics can make great recordings. I have taped with my Busman's at shows with guys using Neumanns, DPA's, etc and prefer my Busmans.

The overall feeling on this board is that a $5000 - $7000 setup can't be topped and the ones who shell out the most make the best recordings.  ::)

I guess I'd disagree with you here.  I think this board is very supportive of all tapers and people here I think do a good job overall encouraging people in the hobby no matter what price level they're invested in.  (I also think that if someone made what frankly is a somewhat inflammatory comment as yours but turned around and said with rolled eyes that somehow these people with cheaper mics seem to think they're able to make good recordings, then lots of people would call that poster out.)

I'm sure I could be easily be put into the category of gear slut, and I've owned a pretty large number of different mics.  Trying out different stuff is definitely part of the fun for me of this hobby.  And especially with the availability of multi-channel recording, I've done quite a bit of controlled comps of mics myself, using a wide array of "cheap" mics and expensive ones.  For me, while the cheap mics can sound very good, in the exact same circumstances, the expensive ones sound better to me.  The cheaper ones sound good, but the more expensive are better.  And this holds true for even the very expensive over the expensive. (For instance, I definitely preferred my Gefell m210s over jwmod AKG 463's, and preferred the m210's over my now "new" Beyer mc950's, though I decided to sell the Gefells and keep the Beyers to pull some money out of the rig.)

There are probably tapers who just get the expensive gear and assume it makes the best recordings.  But especially for tapers on this board who are very involved in the hobby and like to think about it and post about it, expand their understanding, share their experiences, etc, I think many or most of these tapers who use expensive gear do so because they slowly upgraded over time, not just to waste their money, but because they found the extra investment was worth it, since it sounded better to them.

Everyone has different tastes and hears things differently. Probably thankfully for my wallet, I just do not and never have preferred the sound of schoeps.  And while I like the sound of DPAs, not really that much better or even better at all to my ear than my Milabs.  I'm sure others on the board running their expensive rigs actually listen critically to their recordings and like the sound they get.  If others like you are lucky that your tastes and your ears are tilted towards cheaper gear, that's great for you and your wallet, but that doesn't make anyone who spends $5,000+ on gear wrong.  You're sitting there thinking your recordings sound better (to you), and those with the $5,000-$7,000 gear are sitting there thinking their recordings sound better.  They don't have to be wrong for your to be right.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2011, 12:59:55 PM »
^I'm no authority and could very well be wrong..... but doesn't Busman upgrade the critical internal guts....  which creates his own sonic signature?  I don't know how much difference it actually makes, but I'm pretty sure that Chinese mics don't feature van den Hul wiring.

I agree.... not all Chinese mics are the same.  That's why it can be a crap shoot with em......  poor quality control.

Semantics probably, but when I'm talking about chinese mics, I'm talking about components from china, particularly bodies and especially capsules.  I've heard some allusions to busman's new modified capsules, so I don't really know about those, but the BSC mics had originally been made using chinese bodies + capsules.  Busman definitely had his own stamp on them, either by specifying what electronics went into them or by stuffing and soldering them himself (don't know which one it is).

I hear what you're sayin......  but I have been under the belief that Busman solders and stuffs his own guts into into those Chinese manufactured body sleeves.  I could very well be wrong......  but that is what I've always thought for some reason.  And the caps are most likely the same Chinese caps found on other mics......     not sure about that either, but it seems that way.  It sounds like he's "re-working" those Chinese caps to shape em sonically and aesthetically into his own creature......  but not sure on that either. 
I'm a heavy Busman fluffer.....  but there are some unanswered questions surrounding his goods.

This is probably "nit-pickin".....   but if I were to call the BSC1's anything...  I guess it would be "Chinese-machined, USA made/designed"....  but that doesn't really have any flow to it.   :P   

I'll say this.....  after listening to mainly Schoeps sources for the past 6months or so, I still fully enjoy my Busman sources......  IMO, that's gotta say somethin. 

I also think that  "less expensive" mics are not usually being driven by a "world class" pre-amp/ADC.....  which highly affects the end results IMO.

I look at it this way....  the BSC1's might not be in the same league as the "world class" mic manufacturers.......  but Busman created a "budget" mic that what might lack in "tech-specs", it makes up for in musicality. 
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline acidjack

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 01:11:46 PM »
I bought darn near every budget and chinese mic available when I started this hobby. I found some great values and pulled some nice tapes.  That said, I could have saved myself a ton of time and money by investing in a world class pair of mics from the start. 

If you really can't afford akg or schoeps or you don't need the ego boost that those manufactures provide users, I would highly recomend the AT405x series microphones.  Not german, but the japs certainly do a better job than the chinese.  The 4051 sdc and the 4050 ldc can hold their own against any microphone imho.

This is where I was too - I bought a lot of different kinds of budget mics and ended up wasting a lot of money - at least as much as I paid (used) for the rig I have now.

These kinds of conversations always take a somewhat unfortunate turn about cost of mic vs quality of mic, etc. etc.  Expensive mics cost more not just because they have fancy names on them, but because they perform better, in an objective sense (whether you like the "Neumann sound" or "Schoeps sound" or "DPA sound" or not, each of their top-of-the-line products is, objectively, a better-manufactured and better-performing product those of most of their competitors).  But the user, and the user's objectives, are also pretty important.  A Ferrari is also a much better car than my 1999 Chevy.  However, in getting from point A to point B a few times a week and carrying stuff, my 1999 Chevy is as good, if not better.  And I bet that Mario Andretti driving my 1999 Chevy could probably still smoke me driving a Ferrari....   
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Shawn

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2011, 02:43:26 PM »
I would love to own Busman or Peluso mics, but can you expect the longevity of AKG out of them???
ever tried to get a pair of AKG ck1x caps serviced by AKG? I have. AKG laughed at me and said no. Just buying one of the big dog brands doesn't mean much.

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2011, 04:16:20 PM »
I would love to own Busman or Peluso mics, but can you expect the longevity of AKG out of them???
ever tried to get a pair of AKG ck1x caps serviced by AKG? I have. AKG laughed at me and said no. Just buying one of the big dog brands doesn't mean much.

How old are the ck-series caps???  Where will Busman and/or Peluso be in that many years from now??? 

I'm not stating that AKG has phenomenal service, just that in the long-run you'll probalby be better of with an AKG than you would with a Busman Audio... 

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2011, 04:26:16 PM »
I would love to own Busman or Peluso mics, but can you expect the longevity of AKG out of them???
ever tried to get a pair of AKG ck1x caps serviced by AKG? I have. AKG laughed at me and said no. Just buying one of the big dog brands doesn't mean much.

How old are the ck-series caps???  Where will Busman and/or Peluso be in that many years from now??? 

I'm not stating that AKG has phenomenal service, just that in the long-run you'll probalby be better of with an AKG than you would with a Busman Audio... 

Terry

to be fair, Doug isn't dead. I get your point, and it's a valid one; in that statistically you are more likely to get service on older products with bigger names. True, but it's a gamble, and Oade is an example of that.
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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2011, 04:58:04 PM »
^I'm no authority and could very well be wrong..... but doesn't Busman upgrade the critical internal guts....  which creates his own sonic signature?  I don't know how much difference it actually makes, but I'm pretty sure that Chinese mics don't feature van den Hul wiring.

I agree.... not all Chinese mics are the same.  That's why it can be a crap shoot with em......  poor quality control.

Semantics probably, but when I'm talking about chinese mics, I'm talking about components from china, particularly bodies and especially capsules.  I've heard some allusions to busman's new modified capsules, so I don't really know about those, but the BSC mics had originally been made using chinese bodies + capsules.  Busman definitely had his own stamp on them, either by specifying what electronics went into them or by stuffing and soldering them himself (don't know which one it is).

I hear what you're sayin......  but I have been under the belief that Busman solders and stuffs his own guts into into those Chinese manufactured body sleeves.  I could very well be wrong......  but that is what I've always thought for some reason.  And the caps are most likely the same Chinese caps found on other mics......     not sure about that either, but it seems that way.  It sounds like he's "re-working" those Chinese caps to shape em sonically and aesthetically into his own creature......  but not sure on that either. 
I'm a heavy Busman fluffer.....  but there are some unanswered questions surrounding his goods.

This is probably "nit-pickin".....   but if I were to call the BSC1's anything...  I guess it would be "Chinese-machined, USA made/designed"....  but that doesn't really have any flow to it.   :P   


I think the original idea was based off his modifications to the Avantone CK1s. Later - I think Bus learned some of the ins and outs of working with Chinese manufacturers and was able to spec out and import his own product.

I doubt he does much but test bodies - not sure if he makes any adjustments to the caps. But - I'd be certain he's not sitting around soldering mics together.

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2011, 07:08:14 PM »
I would love to own Busman or Peluso mics, but can you expect the longevity of AKG out of them???
ever tried to get a pair of AKG ck1x caps serviced by AKG? I have. AKG laughed at me and said no. Just buying one of the big dog brands doesn't mean much.

How old are the ck-series caps???  Where will Busman and/or Peluso be in that many years from now??? 

I'm not stating that AKG has phenomenal service, just that in the long-run you'll probalby be better of with an AKG than you would with a Busman Audio... 

Terry

to be fair, Doug isn't dead. I get your point, and it's a valid one; in that statistically you are more likely to get service on older products with bigger names. True, but it's a gamble, and Oade is an example of that.

Oh yeah, despite what I've said, I own ADKs and an Oade Mod... 

I think there needs to be a balance struck between longevity/servicability and economy...  Personally, I think the BSC-1s are worth it, but others may not...  Someone looking to upgrade in a few years, its probably a great deal...  Someone that's going to keep them forever, maybe ot so... 

Oade is a great example of someone that is not a big name, but has relatively good service...  But on the other end of the specturm, there are the JKLab boxes...

Terry

***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #41 on: January 10, 2011, 10:30:18 PM »
How old are the ck-series caps???  Where will Busman and/or Peluso be in that many years from now??? 
Terry
The ck1x series are not in production anymore. They went with the AKG remote set-up with the mk46 remote cables
for an active style set up.
The ck(uls) 61, 62, 63 are still being made.
MILAB VM-44 Classic~> Silver T's~> Busman PMD660
News From Phish: Will tour as opening act for Widespread Panic for Summer
hahaha never happen, PHiSH is waaaaayyyy better the WSP

They both ain't got nothing on MMW... Money spent wisely if you ask me...


FYI, it is a kick ass recording of a bunch of pretend-a-hippies talking.

Offline Busman Audio

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2011, 11:30:39 PM »
 I modify most of the components to my chosen types and values and rewire all the mics. This happens here. I also solder everything using WBT solder and use high quality tools.  My products speak for themselves. If you want to spend more money on mics that is fine with me I do keep busy and this is my business for life.  When I started out doing this I thought about the fact that if I started releasing products I did not want to leave my customers high and dry down the road and so I am committed to staying around.

My mics are originally from China yes but are they even close to that once you get them. NO.

It is always up to you to decide what is better for you. Everyone hears differently and that is the magic of music, everyone can have a different experience good or bad.

By the way, here is a link to some comparison files of the new capsules and a sample from the BASR1 stereo ribbon
http://www.busmanaudio.com/audio_samples.htm
Busman mics of all kinds>some type of busman modified recorder.

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Offline yug du nord

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2011, 12:54:05 AM »
^Hey.... good to see you around Chris......  nice updates to your site!  Busman ROCKS.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline jbell

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2011, 07:24:21 PM »
Due to snow I haven't worked all week, so I have been catching up on editing shows.  I have been listening to some of my pulls when I was runing Avantone Ck1s modded by Busman and I am very pleased with the results.  The modded Avantones are similar to the BCS1 mics.
Microtech Gefell m20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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Offline rockymtnryan

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2011, 04:23:02 PM »
I love my Busman stereo kit and have been very pleased with the results of the few shows I've taped so far.  I prefer the sound of mine paired with my Busman modified UA-5 over the recordings I've heard with just the Busman mics > various recorders.  Also love the sound of these mics paired with a V2 or V3.  Would I like to have a pair of AKG's?  Sure.  But for the money I don't think you can beat them imo.  I listened to a lot of recordings on the LMA before making my purchase and I feel that Busman makes a solid product.  Looking forward to getting the caps modified as soon as possible.
AKG CK61-ULS > Nbob actives > Nbox Platinum > Tascam DR-70D @ 24bit/96kHz
AKG CK63-ULS > Nbob actives > Nbox Platinum > Tascam DR-70D @ 24bit/96kHz

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2011, 10:24:26 PM »
Without getting deep into the hows whys and whens, I would like to chime in and say that I am more than proud to share my Busman BSC1 recordings.  I think they are a great sounding microphone, at any price range.  Second, Chris Johnson has been a pleasure to deal with, and a fine example of the extra mile that a customer gets so rarely today.  He is proud of what he does, puts his reputation behind what he builds, and stands by the product.  You can't ask for more than that.

This is a fine example of what I routinely pull with them, my most recent recording of Umphrey's McGee at HOB, Boston.  the K3 hypers have quickly become a favorite cap for me when not stage lip.  The K11 cards (new version of the K1) have a crisp, clean neutral sound in my opinion, that I have also grown very proud of.  This is the K3's, from behind the board.

http://www.archive.org/details/UM2011-01-27.LSRBSC1K3flac

I also have a Busman modded PMD-660.  Chris essentially did this mod to better match the mics with my deck, due to the op amp issues prone to the Marantz units, for far below what a routine mod would probably cost, due to the fact that he is both customer satisfaction driven, and knew that the deck would be the weak link in the rig.  I have followed his recommendations on this, and the results have led me to a simple conclusion:  I trust Chris Johnson to make the best recommendations and decisions for my recordings and gear, without question.

I know this sounds like a PSA for Busman Audio, but I am one of the very satisfied and happy customers, and there are many of us.  The Doug Oades, Steven Sanks, Chis Church and other sound gurus of the world ave very similar customer reviews, too.  That is the beauty with going with the more intimate professionals with a PASSION for audio.   

In the case of all gear, especially mics, let your ears be the judge.
Cheers!
"Christopher, it's a thin line between taper and stalker" - Adam Terrell

Busman BSC1 (K11, K2, K3, K4) > PMD 660 (Busman mod)
Nakamichi CM-300 (non-mod) > MX-100/ART usb pre > (CP-1, CP-2, CP-4 guns) > Zoom h4n

Offline NSL

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2011, 10:33:15 PM »
Does anyone use the busman BSC-1 with a Littlebox? 
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Offline printguy

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2011, 07:39:51 AM »
I ran a BiggerBox with mine until a couple months ago. BSC1 > BiggerBox > R-44.
• CA-11 or CA-14 > Naiant TinyBox > Tascam DR-1
• Neumann KM184s > R-44

Offline willndmb

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Re: Busman BSC 1- worth buying?
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2011, 02:28:12 PM »
Does anyone use the busman BSC-1 with a Littlebox?
i have a couple of times
sounded pretty good
here is a clip (best i can do)
« Last Edit: February 11, 2011, 02:38:11 PM by willndmb »
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

 

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