Topic: PCM-D50 and SCMS

[MikeInMass]

My FR2LE is great, but I would like a recorder with built-in mics for recording interviews and impromptu performances to which I wouldn't have dragged external mics and a stand.

I also hoped to use it as an S/PDIF sink to capture a few LPs through the Sony DTC-2000ES I've managed to keep alive, which  has pretty nice converters.

I thought the Sony PCM-D50 would fill the bill perfectly, but its manual at https://dmc.wisc.edu/images/EFLmanuals/sony_pcm-d50.pdf says:

You cannot record the copyrighted digital signals (SCMS: Serial Copy Management System). If such signals are input, "NO DIGITAL COPY" is displayed. Some digital devices output copyrighted digital signals. For instance, an MD or DAT media containing copyrighted recorded material outputs copyrighted digital signals, which cannot be recorded with the recorder.

Does anyone know what will happen in practice if I hook up the D50 to the output of the 2000ES (which does have SCMS) when playing a DAT recorded from analog inputs? My fading memory suggests that is the SCMS "copy once" case, and I should be all right, but has anyone tried this?

It's 2011 A.D-- I can't believe I'm still having to even think about SCMS.    When will Sony let it go?

Any alternative suggestions to the D50? I'm irritated enough to want to ditch Sony entirely, but I can't seem to find any other affordable S/PDIF input devices besides the Microtrack II, which seems to get very mixed reviews. The M-Audio Transit has been a disaster for me, and I can't drop $600 on a PMD661 only to still have no grab-n-go solution for interviews.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[andromedanwarmachine]

Hey man- you'll be fine!

if you were transferring digitally a digital-copy, rather than an analogue sourced piece of footage, you'd have a problem. But not in this case.

SCMS was configured for quality-concious all-for-profit bootleggers (ever met one??!) who would (it was imagined) digitally clone original release material. In reality, I don't think anybody who made a living bootlegging black-copies of music gave two hoots about digital transfer and would just go for analogue to get the result. I was on a school trip to Italy some years ago and somebody bought a dodgy copy of a Madonna album on cassette. The B side was blank!!

JimP

[JasonSobel]

and I can't drop $600 on a PMD661 only to still have no grab-n-go solution for interviews.

just FYI, the PMD-661 does have a set of built-in mics that would be fine for interviews.

[runonce]

You can probably score an old JB3 for less than hundred bucks...

Optical in...ignores scms.

[Todd R]

I agree that you should be fine since the digital recordings you have are "masters" (1st gen analog to digital recording), not digital clones.

The SCMS though is an issue. I just started trying to get the hundreds of DAT masters I have transferred, using a Sony A6 "consumer" DAT deck into my D50.  Most have worked just fine, but I came across one LoS show so far that I had made a digital clone of the master tape, since that master DAT seemed like it was getting iffy.  I haven't come across the actual master, but the D50 won't let me digitally record the DAT clone. 

It's just more convenient with my setup at home to transfer from A6 DAT to the D50, but for the tapes like this that are clones, I guess I'll need to transfer directly from my A6 to my iMac.

[Massive Dynamic]

For the record, the fr-2le does have built-in mics, accessible through the menus, though I've never used them. It does not have a digital input.

Built-in stereo microphones for quick memo recording

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/FR-2LE.shtml

[fmaderjr]

For the record, the fr-2le does have built-in mics, accessible through the menus, though I've never used them. It does not have a digital input.

Built-in stereo microphones for quick memo recording

http://www.fostexinternational.com/docs/products/FR-2LE.shtml

Mike probably already knows about this. Unfortunately they are totally worthless, even for interviews. Probably the worst sounding built in mics on any recorder available. I don't know why they even included them if they were not going to make them far better.

[MikeInMass]

Hey, thanks for all the thoughtful replies to my rant! Yeah, I did know that the FR2LE has internal mics...  maybe I should give them a more serious try before giving up on them for interviews.  But I would not use them for music. So when I find myself on the road wishing I had thrown a small recorder in my bag, the 'LE is packed up at home with external mics and a stand. I was eyeing a few portables with better built-in mics, and thought the D50 would be a good choice since it could also pull bit bucket duty. Glad to know that I should be all right with my analog-sourced masters-- thanks for confirming that, Jim and Todd!

Thanks for letting me know that there are mics on the PMD661, Jason! Somehow the product page I saw didn't mention that. But other posts on this site suggest that they wouldn't be much better than the ones on the 'LE.

So is a D50 the cheapest way to get both a bit bucket and a decent-sounding throw-it-in-a-bag recorder for music? Or could I get the two separately for a lot less? The DR07 looks like a great deal, but add the price of a Microtrack II and the money I saved wouldn't be worth it if the Microtrack turns out not to do the job. runonce, would a JB3 be any less finicky than a MicroTrack II? I've had good luck avoiding hard drive failures so far, don't wanna push it. 

[andromedanwarmachine]

JB3

"Optical in...ignores scms." are you sure?

[sunjan]

A word of warning. The D50 has a compatibility issue with old gear. If your DAT deck doesn't feed the right "bit-flag" with the optical signal, chances are that the D50 won't recognize the digital signal correctly. This is the same issue that prevents hooking up the D50 with UA-5 and Audient Mico. Use the search to find out more.
The safest bet would be to borrow a unit for testing first, or buy it from a retailer who offers money-back-return.
Of course, you could still transfer analog no matter what, but it would kinda defeat the purpose of getting an expensive bit bucket...