Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)  (Read 136246 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Russell_L

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #195 on: October 21, 2011, 07:28:40 PM »
Wow--I can't believe I've finally made it through all the posts of this multi-volume thread in the last few hours!  Anyway, this is my first post here, and I'm hoping you guys can confirm something for me...

I've been looking to replace my Zoom H4n and am considering the Sony D50 and M10.  I use the Zoom primarily to record classical concerts (mostly opera) in small-to-medium sized venues using the internal mics.  (Externals are not an option at the moment.)  I've actually been pretty pleased with the results, save for some all-too-obvious self-noise from the Zoom.  I'm sure the D50 would improve in that respect (and I assume its internal mics would be better as well) but from what I've been reading and hearing, the M10 might fit the bill as well.  From the recorded samples made with the M10's internal mics that I've heard around the internet, I've been really struck by its really low noise floor.  In fact, listening via high-quality headphones to the "noise floor" samples on the Wingfield Audio site (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples), the M10 was clearly quieter than the D50, which astounded me.  Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet?  I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....

Offline ScoobieKW

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1664
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #196 on: October 21, 2011, 09:27:10 PM »
Wow--I can't believe I've finally made it through all the posts of this multi-volume thread in the last few hours!  Anyway, this is my first post here, and I'm hoping you guys can confirm something for me...

I've been looking to replace my Zoom H4n and am considering the Sony D50 and M10.  I use the Zoom primarily to record classical concerts (mostly opera) in small-to-medium sized venues using the internal mics.  (Externals are not an option at the moment.)  I've actually been pretty pleased with the results, save for some all-too-obvious self-noise from the Zoom.  I'm sure the D50 would improve in that respect (and I assume its internal mics would be better as well) but from what I've been reading and hearing, the M10 might fit the bill as well.  From the recorded samples made with the M10's internal mics that I've heard around the internet, I've been really struck by its really low noise floor.  In fact, listening via high-quality headphones to the "noise floor" samples on the Wingfield Audio site (http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples), the M10 was clearly quieter than the D50, which astounded me.  Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet?  I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/2011/10/rockin-teenage-combo-shadowlands/
is one of my first recordings with the M10 using  onboard omnis. This was mic'ed 2-3 feet from drummer.

http://www.archive.org/details/pk2011-08-05.M10.flac16
The previous night is a great performance, the noise is because I mis-estimated levels  and wasn't in position to tweak during performance.

http://www.archive.org/details/nm2011-08-13.flac16

here is a recording with my Avantone CK-1 with a Denecke PS-2 phantom power supply into the M10 preamp on low setting.
http://www.archive.org/details/hips2011-10-14.flac16

I love the unit, it's small, it goes a long time on 2 AA batteries, and it sounds great.

 ;D


Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline morst

  • I think I found an error on the internet; #UnionStrong
  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6125
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #197 on: October 23, 2011, 11:13:44 PM »
Word of warning...
I took my microsd card out of the m10 and put it in my card reader just a little askew and I had to use pliers to yank the card out. The card was fine but then I decided not to use the card reader any more. ;)

My Sandisk card reader is no better. My microSD card slot leaves only 2mm of card out so I have to use pliers every time. Disappointing but hey, at least it functions as a card reader should.



I have this Kingston reader, and to remove the MicroSD, you PUSH IT IN and it will then click out. All the other sockets on it are just push to insert, pull to release.
https://toad.social/@morst spoutible.com/morst post.news/@acffhmorst

Offline bryonsos

  • Omni addict
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
  • Gender: Male
  • If it's important, tell me to write it down.
    • LMA uploads
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #198 on: October 24, 2011, 01:48:46 AM »
I use this one:

http://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-MicroSD-Reader-Writer-GFR204SD/dp/B0046TJG1U/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1319435082&sr=8-6

It doesn't seem to be too finicky for card insertion, and enough of the MicroSD sticks out to make it easy to remove. For me, the biggest bonus is the size, it hardly takes up any space in the gear bag.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
Pres: CA-Ugly / Naiant Tinyhead / SD MixPre
Decks: Roland R-44 / Sony PCM-M10
GAKables
Dead Muppets

My recordings LMA / BT / TTD

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3727
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #199 on: October 24, 2011, 09:32:47 AM »
I use the same card reader as morst and there was definitely no way of pushing the card in to get it unstuck but usually you can press it in and it will pop out.

I like the one you have bryonsos because it looks like cards won't get stuck so easily. ;)
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline willndmb

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6799
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #200 on: October 24, 2011, 01:46:37 PM »
how much faster/slower is the m10 vs the reader?
i always use the m10 and it doesn't seem to take more then about 6-8 minutes to transfer a show
if getting the card stuck and needing pliers is going to save me a few minutes - doesn't seem worth it imo
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline bryonsos

  • Omni addict
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2061
  • Gender: Male
  • If it's important, tell me to write it down.
    • LMA uploads
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #201 on: October 24, 2011, 01:50:05 PM »
I've found my reader to be ~2X faster than using the cable.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
Pres: CA-Ugly / Naiant Tinyhead / SD MixPre
Decks: Roland R-44 / Sony PCM-M10
GAKables
Dead Muppets

My recordings LMA / BT / TTD

adrianf74

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #202 on: October 24, 2011, 03:29:53 PM »
I've found my reader to be ~2X faster than using the cable.
I find my card reader is about 6-8x faster than using the card in the M10 via USB.  My card reader is an internal 24-in-1 job that fits in a floppy drive bay and runs on SATA (that has much to do with the speed boost).

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #203 on: October 24, 2011, 04:18:32 PM »
I thought someone said that card speed makes a difference in download speeds when downloading directly from the Sony, but maybe I don't remember correctly. 

Anyway, I've heard some people say it takes close to an hour to download a show directly from their m10, but less than 10 minutes with a reader. 

Me, I've always used the reader with my 32GB Class 10 card (probably 10 shows now under my belt with the m10) and it takes about 5 minutes to download a 2GB file.

Offline Ozpeter

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1491
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #204 on: October 24, 2011, 06:28:57 PM »
Quote
Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet?  I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....

Congratulations on making it this far through the threads!

Hmmm, your question is a tricky one.  Indeed the M10 mics are very quiet, that partly being due to their omni design (it's easier to make a cheap quiet omni than a cheap quiet cardioid).  But the tradeoff is, as you state, poor stereo image.  And you get a more "roomy" sound because it's picking up room reflections from all directions.  But if you are in the audience some way back in an operatic performance, maybe stereo image isn't going to be that important anyway as the width from your seat to the stage won't be that much?

Heaven knows how you'd conceal anything bigger than an M10 anyway - even that when working on its internal mics would be pretty compromised soundwise by being hidden.

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Gender: Male
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #205 on: October 24, 2011, 07:03:39 PM »
Aside from the risk of needing to use pliers to extract a microSD from a card reader, I always transfer via the M10 to reduce the number of insertions/extractions the card (and the M10's card slot) has to go through.

Probably just being over-cautious but the contacts seem like exactly the sort of component that would gradually wear out and then let you down at the worst possible moment...
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40692
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
    • MediaFire Recordings
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #206 on: October 24, 2011, 07:28:15 PM »
I get about 1MB/Sec w/ my M10, and around 15MB/Sec w/ my Targus card reader :)
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline Russell_L

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #207 on: October 25, 2011, 01:35:01 PM »
Quote
Are the internal mics and preamps of the M10 really that quiet?  I know the lack of a cohesive stereo image is a problem, and that alone might tip the balance in favor of the D50, but the quietness of the M10 is sure appealing.....

Congratulations on making it this far through the threads!

Hmmm, your question is a tricky one.  Indeed the M10 mics are very quiet, that partly being due to their omni design (it's easier to make a cheap quiet omni than a cheap quiet cardioid).  But the tradeoff is, as you state, poor stereo image.  And you get a more "roomy" sound because it's picking up room reflections from all directions.  But if you are in the audience some way back in an operatic performance, maybe stereo image isn't going to be that important anyway as the width from your seat to the stage won't be that much?

Heaven knows how you'd conceal anything bigger than an M10 anyway - even that when working on its internal mics would be pretty compromised soundwise by being hidden.

Thanks--that's what I suspected.  I ended up ordering a D50, mainly because I liked the wide-open sound from its internal mics, as opposed to the boxy sound of the M10's internals.  (This is all based on samples I've listened to on the internet.)  (And FWIW, I wouldn't be overtly 'concealing' the recorder, but I'd still be in the audience.  (These are amateur, small-company, shoestring-budget gigs where I would be recording a friend's performances.))

Offline ArchivalAudio

  • Trade Count: (19)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2891
  • Gender: Male
  • Teams Milab | MBHO | TeamVW:2011 Touareg TDI
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #208 on: October 27, 2011, 01:36:21 AM »
My iMac has a slot for standard SD cards (as does my Ubuntu Netbook), and using a microSD card with an adapter- wors like a charm, though I do also have a card reader.
It's certainly much faster then trying to load from the M-10 (or any unit itself) worth the $10 buck or so if your computer does not come with a built in SD card slot, as many now do.
--Ian
~ Archival Audio ~
Archiving Worthy Music
since 1986 & digitally since 1995

https://www.facebook.com/ArchivalAudio/

Main Mics: Milab VM-44 Links • Milab DC-196's (Matched  Pair)  • MBHO KA500 or KA300 •
PreAmps:  BaybNbox  • Naiant LittleBox • Naiant [Milab VM44] TinyBox • Naiant PIPsqueak
Recorders: MixPre 10T •  Tascam DR-100 mkIII • Sony A-10 • Sony M-10 

macMini 3Ghz i7 16GB Ram 500GB SSD • MOTU UltraLite
Naiant MSH-2's •   TOA K1's • Beyer TG 153c's •  AT 853 (4.7kmod darktrain) • Countryman B3's (1 k mod)  + other assorted mics

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9995
  • Gender: Male
  • I dream in beige.
    • sloppy.art.ink
Re: Sony PCM-M10 (part V)
« Reply #209 on: November 05, 2011, 08:04:40 PM »
PSA:

Tape over your auto levels switch. I was always fine in the past but had some issues the other night. Probably a bit more of a factor of my attire, but even if you never run your M10 in an article of clothing there is no reason not to.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 | DPA 4022 | DPA 4080 | Nevaton MCE400 | Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| PREAMPS: DPA d:vice | Naiant Tinybox | Naiant IPA |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube |||

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.058 seconds with 38 queries.
© 2002-2024 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF