Mic Comp: DPA4060 vs. Nevaton MCE400

[JD]

First off thank you for the comp Jamie!  I think that this comp was more of a mic positioning comp than anything else.  I own 4061's & the Nevaton's so I don't care who "wins".  I like them both.  But as I stated earlier my 4061's have never sounded anything like what I heard from the sample A, 4060's in this comp. 

What kind of gear would I have to use with my 4061's & mce400's to make it a somewhat equal and valuable comp?  I do NOT have the phantom power adapters for the dpa's.  I think that I still have access to two V3's that have not been modded and using the digi out on both should take care of that part, I can run both pairs of mics over-and-under, side-by-side or whatever closely matched config so that they will be very close to the same position relative to the sound source.  Any suggestions?

Honestly, going back and listening to various recordings I have made in that room with both sets of mics, I notice similar results in almost all recordings.
The samples I posted were from the only time I ran both at the same time though.
I like both mics and will run them either or without any hesitation!

Like I stated before, I am not a real big fan of the 406x mics directly into the 7xx recorders.
Thus, the phantom adapters I have are seldom used, I would be happy to send them your way for a while if you want to do some comps of your own.

LMK

jamie

[dactylus]

My dpa's are microdots.

Well after checking I do NOT have access to that 2nd stock V3 now.

[dactylus]

First off thank you for the comp Jamie!  I think that this comp was more of a mic positioning comp than anything else.  I own 4061's & the Nevaton's so I don't care who "wins".  I like them both.  But as I stated earlier my 4061's have never sounded anything like what I heard from the sample A, 4060's in this comp. 

What kind of gear would I have to use with my 4061's & mce400's to make it a somewhat equal and valuable comp?  I do NOT have the phantom power adapters for the dpa's.  I think that I still have access to two V3's that have not been modded and using the digi out on both should take care of that part, I can run both pairs of mics over-and-under, side-by-side or whatever closely matched config so that they will be very close to the same position relative to the sound source.  Any suggestions?

Like I stated before, I am not a real big fan of the 406x mics directly into the 7xx recorders.
Thus, the phantom adapters I have are seldom used, I would be happy to send them your way for a while if you want to do some comps of your own.
LMK

jamie

Hello Jamie - I'd like to try the dpa phantom adapters running out of a V3 and then take it from there.  Thanks for the offer.  I should be able to do a stage lip jazz comp in the near future.  PM sent.

David

[dactylus]

I may have just lined up the following recording chains, made available by borrowing a mytek 192 adc locally:

dpa 4061 > v3 > mytek adc192 digi out > to a bit bucket

nevaton mce400 > v3 > mytek adc192 digi out > to a bit bucket

Just waiting on the word on the mytek, that shouldn't be a problem.

[Gutbucket]

No chance of bias for the electrons at least in those chains, David.  Just keep the mics as close as possible and oriented the same direction- differences in directionality probably play a decent roll here.

Dunno about direct into a SD recorder, but I've had no problems and very good sound IMO running 4060s through Niaint PFAs directly into either an OCM R-44 or DR680.  I also have a single DPA microdot>XLR adapter, but since I usually use the Niant PFAs, I've only used that once when I did a 5 omni surround recording a couple weeks ago driect to the DR-680.  The DPA>microdot powering adapter was used for one of the surround channels.  That recording has no problems and sounds very good, but I haven't listened to each channel in isolation or just the surround pair.  I'll give that a close listen tonight when I get home tonight to see if I can detect any obvious differences between the DPA adapter and the Niaiant PFAs.

[illconditioned]

I have to say "I told you so" for this comparison!!!

I went out and bought a (new) pair of DPA4060 and thought, OK, I'm done.  But when I used them they just didn't sound good.  Everything was there, the detail, the clarity, and intense realism for ambient recordings.  They just did not sound good for music.  I found myself listening to "the room" rather than "the music".  I found myself preferring other recordings, even with "lowly" mics like the Panasonic WM60/61.  This was a big disappointment...

I cannot provide a scientific explanation, but IMO there is something wrong with these mics.  If I had to guess, I would say there is something distorting at higher frequencies (perhaps because they use a rectangular non-tensioned diaphragm).  The only microphones that I feel have *both* detail and natural sound for music are metal diaphragm units, such as Nevaton and Countryman B3 (both use a stainless steel diaphragm).  You'll also notice that DPA made their name by introducing metal diaphragm "measurement microphones" (1/2" and 1") mics to the classical recording folks.  Those are the only DPA microphones I've ever liked.  Note that the DPA directional mics are not metal diaphragms either (and I don't like the sound).

  Richard

[Gutbucket]

I have to say "I told you so" for this comparison!!!

I went out and bought a (new) pair of DPA4060 and thought, OK, I'm done.  But when I used them they just didn't sound good.  Everything was there, the detail, the clarity, and intense realism for ambient recordings.  They just did not sound good for music.  I found myself listening to "the room" rather than "the music".  I found myself preferring other recordings, even with "lowly" mics like the Panasonic WM60/61.  This was a big disappointment...

I cannot provide a scientific explanation, but IMO there is something wrong with these mics.  If I had to guess, I would say there is something distorting at higher frequencies (perhaps because they use a rectangular non-tensioned diaphragm).  The only microphones that I feel have *both* detail and natural sound for music are metal diaphragm units, such as Nevaton and Countryman B3 (both use a stainless steel diaphragm).  You'll also notice that DPA made their name by introducing metal diaphragm "measurement microphones" (1/2" and 1") mics to the classical recording folks.  Those are the only DPA microphones I've ever liked.  Note that the DPA directional mics are not metal diaphragms either (and I don't like the sound).

  Richard

That's a bit strong, Richard.

I'll be the first to admit I guessed wrong on this one.  But we all know that one sample isn't enough to make a complete judgement.  I'm with David on this one in that I've rarely had 4060 recordings turn out sounding anything like the sample here- one reason I was pretty confident about my guess, and suprised at the result.

Tempted to post any number of 4060 snippets that are some of the most absolutely musical recordings I've made, including many made with more expensive and 'lauded' microphones.  I made a killer one a couple weeks ago that was in mind when listening to this comp.  I'm sure others have similar experiences.

Maybe we get over-influenced by inflated expectations. I was pretty charged up about trying the B3s, but now that I have a few pair I'm a bit underwhelmed. I like them generally and feel they are a good value, but to my ear they are not only noisy enough to bother me but are also sonically- musically- a far cry from whatever it is that works for me with the 4060s on the recodings that really shine.

Though I obviously like the 4060, I like to think I keep an open mind and would like to try the Nevs myself.  They certainly have more of the right stuff in this comp. Your mileage may vary. 

[F.O.Bean]

I cant DL the files from where they are

[dactylus]

I cant DL the files from where they are

Try here Bean:

Sample A: http://iput.it/82b108
Sample B: http://iput.it/bcff94

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Well, I've posted comps here where the 4061's *excelled* against mk21's, which are fantastic mics.  Two now dead examples:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51789.msg676886
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=51789.15

In the first one, the 4061 > microtrack  came up in a dead heat against mk21 > 722

I think this nevaton/dpa comp had significant issues with mic placement - or something.   Line of sight is critical to mic performance.  If someone's fat head interferes with line of sight to one of the mics, that's a big problem in the comp.   If one of the people doing the comp has someone tall sitting in front of them, etc.  I'm not suggesting that the Nevaton's can't produce a better recording.  I do have concerns about how the dpa's were worn on the collar, etc.

We need more comps

[illconditioned]

I have to say "I told you so" for this comparison!!!

I went out and bought a (new) pair of DPA4060 and thought, OK, I'm done.  But when I used them they just didn't sound good.  Everything was there, the detail, the clarity, and intense realism for ambient recordings.  They just did not sound good for music.  I found myself listening to "the room" rather than "the music".  I found myself preferring other recordings, even with "lowly" mics like the Panasonic WM60/61.  This was a big disappointment...

I cannot provide a scientific explanation, but IMO there is something wrong with these mics.  If I had to guess, I would say there is something distorting at higher frequencies (perhaps because they use a rectangular non-tensioned diaphragm).  The only microphones that I feel have *both* detail and natural sound for music are metal diaphragm units, such as Nevaton and Countryman B3 (both use a stainless steel diaphragm).  You'll also notice that DPA made their name by introducing metal diaphragm "measurement microphones" (1/2" and 1") mics to the classical recording folks.  Those are the only DPA microphones I've ever liked.  Note that the DPA directional mics are not metal diaphragms either (and I don't like the sound).

  Richard

That's a bit strong, Richard.

I'll be the first to admit I guessed wrong on this one.  But we all know that one sample isn't enough to make a complete judgement.  I'm with David on this one in that I've rarely had 4060 recordings turn out sounding anything like the sample here- one reason I was pretty confident about my guess, and suprised at the result.

Tempted to post any number of 4060 snippets that are some of the most absolutely musical recordings I've made, including many made with more expensive and 'lauded' microphones.  I made a killer one a couple weeks ago that was in mind when listening to this comp.  I'm sure others have similar experiences.

Maybe we get over-influenced by inflated expectations. I was pretty charged up about trying the B3s, but now that I have a few pair I'm a bit underwhelmed. I like them generally and feel they are a good value, but to my ear they are not only noisy enough to bother me but are also sonically- musically- a far cry from whatever it is that works for me with the 4060s on the recodings that really shine.

Though I obviously like the 4060, I like to think I keep an open mind and would like to try the Nevs myself.  They certainly have more of the right stuff in this comp. Your mileage may vary.

When I say "I told you so".  I was commenting on my own (strong) preferences against the DPA.  This test seems to confirm that many, if not most people, also sense a difference.  At least it raises doubt as to whether DPA is the best microphone as everyone assumes.

The question I ask is why should one microphone sound so much better than another?  We can point to lack of detail, or self noise, or limited/colored frequency response.  But DPA are fine in all this regard.  So why is it that we prefer the Nevs over the DPAs here?  There are some differences between the recordings, but nothing makes up for the qualitative difference we hear.

This is subjective.  Maybe some people prefer the DPA "sound", but not for me.  Maybe I'll do a DPA vs Countryman B3 and present a similar "blind taste test".

  Richard

[F.O.Bean]

I cant DL the files from where they are

Try here Bean:

Sample A: http://iput.it/82b108
Sample B: http://iput.it/bcff94

+T bro. Got em. Listening now

[F.O.Bean]

I prefer SOURCE B. It has better bass response, and is easier on the vocals I'm dying to know which is which I think that SOURCE B is the DPA's

[Gutbucket]

I did too. 

[F.O.Bean]

After reading this whole thread I am really tempted to buy some Nevaton omni's I was thinking of getting CA-14 Omnis for around $90.00, but after hearing the nevatons, I am really tempted to save up for them