Topic: SD 702 vs everything else...

[jnorman34]

i am considering a new 2 track field recorder for chamber music recording.   i am looking at a used sound devices 702, but wondered what you guys think.  is there any unit that is a tad more affordable that can give comparable results?  i have used a SD 744 before, and it was a wonderfully crafted piece of gear.  i have also used a tascam DR100, which actually was not bad at all, especially considering its price.  i would like to invest in something that will give me solid professional preamps and top-end recordings.  i am currently using Km140s>fast track ultra>thinkpad T410 i7 running reaper, and would like to find a more portable solution for 2-track work.   i would appreciate any thoughts, comments or recommendations you guys might have  - thanks.

[Will_S]

If you don't mind something that looks and feels like a Fisher Price toy (at least compared to the SD),  the preamps  in the Fostex FR2LE are actually quite good.  I think willndmb has one in the Yard Sale. 

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I used the same model fostex that Will notes and for situations where you are using it line-in or in non-nature/louder environments, I think you would be surprised at how well it performs. It does have a low noise floor, but it has less gain than the 7 series IIRC, and it's not the same build caliber as the SD machines. (and it does sort of look like a Fisher Price toy)

I think an option to consider as well, while not an all in one, would be the SD USBPre2. Its essentially a 702 but without a recorder (mate a rca spdif/optical with it). Paired with a Sony D50 (optical receiving) would bring you in around $1k total and essentially replicate a 702 as the pre2's ADC is the same chip and the preamps mimic the 788's design. What it doesn't replicate is the power-failover options that the 7 series have.

I guess the great question is; "will this be used for mission critical work where you need something every single time from demanding environments" If so, I don't think there is much question that the 7 series are the answer, but outside of that, I think you can start to scale back to the usbpre2 or the fostex. ymmv, best of luck.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I think an option to consider as well, while not an all in one, would be the SD USBPre2. Its essentially a 702 but without a recorder (mate a rca spdif/optical with it). Paired with a Sony D50 (optical receiving) would bring you in around $1k total and essentially replicate a 702 as the pre2's ADC is the same chip and the preamps mimic the 788's design. What it doesn't replicate is the power-failover options that the 7 series have.

Of course there is so much more to a/d performance than the chip.  Generally, the chip is the easy part - building the high quality power supply is where it gets really tricky.   I miss my 722's a/d when used as a line-in device.  It'd be interesting to hear some comps of the 7xx a/d against the USBPre2.

I'd also be considering an m10 with some kind of pre-amp.  Though I have yet to hear a good comp of the m10 a/d vs. the 7xx.

The v3 would be near the top of my list for the detail, soundstage, etc.  Also, it gives the option of a second digital recorder as a backup.  A lot of folks love the DAV BG1 for chamber work, myself included.  The big bg1 limitation for me is the a/c power requirement, and the size.   They can be found used for around $600-$650, and that's really a steal.

In my experience, chamber music often requires a lot of gain (depending on mics).  Few all-in-ones can provide that gain cleanly.  I always preferred running my 722 with an external pre-amp.  Would v3 or bg1 > m10 sound better than straight into the 7xx?  Probably.

[notlance]

I believe you need to answer two questions:

1. Are you getting paid to make these recordings?

2. How often do you plan to use the portable recorder?

If I was getting paid to record, I would get a 702 or one of its competitors, such as the Nagra LB and others of that class.

If I was going to use the recorder more than a couple times a month, I'd get a 702 or one of its peers.

Just my opinion.

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Few all-in-ones can provide that gain cleanly.  I always preferred running my 722 with an external pre-amp.  Would v3 or bg1 > m10 sound better than straight into the 7xx?  maybe.

fyp.

I thought the D50 had a decent ADC and I wouldn't kick it out of bed, but I picked the 7 series in that comp in under a few minutes and the general consensus was the same. My complaint was detail, I just didn't hear the same level of detail out of the Sony that I got from the 722. I doubt Sony went back to the drawing board for the M10. So I think between great gain with a good ADC versus good gain with a great ADC. That might sound better to the person recording, it might not, but I don't think it's a clear victory either way.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I thought the D50 had a decent ADC and I wouldn't kick it out of bed, but I picked the 7 series in that comp in under a few minutes and the general consensus was the same. My complaint was detail, I just didn't hear the same level of detail out of the Sony that I got from the 722. I doubt Sony went back to the drawing board for the M10. So I think between great gain with a good ADC versus good gain with a great ADC. That might sound better to the person recording, it might not, but I don't think it's a clear victory either way.

I don't think I heard that comp, and I didn't find it when I just searched.  I'd probably remember it if I saw it..

My recollection is the v3 a/d vs. 722 were not *that* different (I certainly comp'd them enough!).  Though I preferred the 722, and even the r09..

I'm hoping to hear more mytek vs. 7xx comps in the future, and m10.  I'm close to getting an m10.

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I don't think I heard that comp, and I didn't find it when I just searched.  I'd probably remember it if I saw it..

johnw did one with a sonosax, and it was either a D50 or an M10 he used. I'd have to hunt for the link though, last summer I think it was Phish at Alpine Valley.

I'm hoping to hear more mytek vs. 7xx comps in the future, and m10.  I'm close to getting an m10.

I concur, I'm looking forward to the V3/mytek one that tedyun is going to do in the future.

[sparkey]

i am considering a new 2 track field recorder for chamber music recording.   i am looking at a used sound devices 702, but wondered what you guys think.  is there any unit that is a tad more affordable that can give comparable results?  i have used a SD 744 before, and it was a wonderfully crafted piece of gear.  i have also used a tascam DR100, which actually was not bad at all, especially considering its price.  i would like to invest in something that will give me solid professional preamps and top-end recordings.  i am currently using Km140s>fast track ultra>thinkpad T410 i7 running reaper, and would like to find a more portable solution for 2-track work.   i would appreciate any thoughts, comments or recommendations you guys might have  - thanks.

You could find a used MP-2, those sound nice with the 140's, or a V2, and pick up a little Sony bit bucket.

[jnorman34]

so are you guys saying a dedicated preamp, like SDPre or sonosax, etc, plus a D50 or M10 is a better way to go than a 702?
also, what about the marantz 661?  anywhere comparable to 702?

[willndmb]

so are you guys saying a dedicated preamp, like SDPre or sonosax, etc, plus a D50 or M10 is a better way to go than a 702?
also, what about the marantz 661?  anywhere comparable to 702?

i think they are saying it is a cheaper way to get good recording, not that they are going to be better or worse
imo it depends on the mics too
personally i don't care for the sd boxes unless they are paired with dpa mics - clearly others find them to fit well with other mic brands too

i do have a fr-2le for sale as stated above, if you are interested lmk
imo it has nice low noise pres and it def is easy to use with great power options
the meter will not put you in a trace like the sd box though 

[johnw]

I don't think I heard that comp, and I didn't find it when I just searched.  I'd probably remember it if I saw it..

johnw did one with a sonosax, and it was either a D50 or an M10 he used. I'd have to hunt for the link though, last summer I think it was Phish at Alpine Valley.

I'm hoping to hear more mytek vs. 7xx comps in the future, and m10.  I'm close to getting an m10.

I concur, I'm looking forward to the V3/mytek one that tedyun is going to do in the future.

FWIW it was an M10. The test was a bit complicated by the fact that nobody knows what unity is on the M10 although most users are accepting 3-4 which is around what I had the M10 on. Also I never figured out if the 1/8" out on the Sonosax is the same gain as XLR out. Either way, the 2 sources sounded pretty similar to me. I'll eventually buy another 7xx, but the M10 works fine on my budget for now.

[AB52]

There is some logic to getting a Sound Devices USBPRE2 and a portable recorder.   Not only will it sound great, but if later on, you move on to a Sound Devices or other more expensive field recorder, you will have the USBPRE2 for a couple of extra channels, as well as the portable recorder as a backup.
My 2 cents.
Best,
AB
P.S.  I met your friend Boojum in Oregon last Thursday.

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There is some logic to getting a Sound Devices USBPRE2 and a portable recorder.   Not only will it sound great, but if later on, you move on to a Sound Devices or other more expensive field recorder, you will have the USBPRE2 for a couple of extra channels, as well as the portable recorder as a backup.

Thats basically what I've done (a 7 series 2ch and the usbpre2 to link up for the occasional 4ch action).

so are you guys saying a dedicated preamp, like SDPre or sonosax, etc, plus a D50 or M10 is a better way to go than a 702?
also, what about the marantz 661?  anywhere comparable to 702?

i think they are saying it is a cheaper way to get good recording, not that they are going to be better or worse
imo it depends on the mics too

I agree. What the 7 series still has going for it is it sounds great, but mostly is it's hellishly reliable in a series of adverse conditions. As notlance and I were mentioning, it's a question of how mission critical you're stuff is; if it is, get the 7 series, otherwise you can get something like the usbpre2 which will effectively sound just like the 7 series, but at a reduction in cost. There are other options as we've pointed out that could be cheaper then that, but the first question is how critical is what you're doing.

FWIW it was an M10. The test was a bit complicated by the fact that nobody knows what unity is on the M10 although most users are accepting 3-4 which is around what I had the M10 on. Also I never figured out if the 1/8" out on the Sonosax is the same gain as XLR out. Either way, the 2 sources sounded pretty similar to me. I'll eventually buy another 7xx, but the M10 works fine on my budget for now.

The sax's 3.5mm out should be 6db cooler, the overload point is at any rate which makes sense on the balanced/unbalanced element.

[dennisrtyler]

If you are gonna be running mics>recorder...I know I'll get some smirks for this one, but I, without a doubt, enjoy the sound from my Oade Concert Mod 661 more than I did from my 702. No doubt the 702 is a step above in build quality/features but I always found the preamps to be a little "thin". The Oade 661 has better low-end and a killer soundstage compared to the 702. Some people just can't see past the price difference, immediately dismissing the 661 cause it's 1/3 of the price. Based on sound alone, I'll take 3 661s over 1 702 ANYDAY.