Topic: Recorder Upgrade??

[ScoobieKW]

Is the Zoom noise problem through mic inputs or line inputs? Because it seems that the OP is going mics-->battbox-->line-in.  Which might be another reason to stay with the Zoom for a while.

Regardless, I love my PCM-M10 too and it is no more difficult to use than the Zoom. The settings, if you need to change the defaults, are something you'd probably change once--I have never gone into a settings menu during a show. It's got a nice simple remote. Battery life, build quality have been praised by others. And if you're going to a show that doesn't like tapers, the PCM-M10 looks to the guards like a point-and-shoot camera, not a recorder (or electric razor), because of the recessed mics. One guard warned me not to use the flash.

OP also asked about mic placement. My first choice is generally near the soundboard, because the guys in the sound booth are probably using their own ears to gauge the mix. If you aren't stuck in a seat, though, you should use your ears. Let the opening act be your soundcheck unless you love them too. Move to various locations, close your eyes to eliminate visual cues and see what you like. 

Places to usually avoid: right up close to the stage. The PA is pointing over your head, not where you can hear it,  and while your mics may be able to pick up the stage monitors, the vocals you think you are hearing are probably a combination of lip-reading and your memory of the song. Also, under balconies is usually a bad spot--boosts the bass, muffles the highs.

Every room is different. If you go to a place in your hometown regularly, you should be able find its sweet spot(s) pretty soon.

And get away from people who talk because the best sounding spot in the room is bad with a conversation going there.

The only comment to the above, is that the M10 remote has one major flaw. It works even when the hold switch is engaged. Kind of defeats the purpose of a hold switch.

[earmonger]

 

I understand in theory some people's qualms about the Hold switch not locking absolutely everything, but in actual use this is not a problem.

The volume control on the PCM-M10 does not move easily. And you really have to press  the remote buttons.

I keep the PCM-M10 in a camera pouch on my belt, and use the remote to insert track marks during applause, and I'm happy to have it. I wouldn't put the PCM-M10 in a tight pants pocket, but even there you probably wouldn't change the volume because it's got the raised guard. You'd be more likely to unswitch the Hold slider as to change the volume. Tight pants pocket is a bad idea for taping anyway.

If you're worried about the remote....don't plug it in.

[ScoobieKW]

I understand in theory some people's qualms about the Hold switch not locking absolutely everything, but in actual use this is not a problem.

The volume control on the PCM-M10 does not move easily. And you really have to press  the remote buttons.

I keep the PCM-M10 in a camera pouch on my belt, and use the remote to insert track marks during applause, and I'm happy to have it. I wouldn't put the PCM-M10 in a tight pants pocket, but even there you probably wouldn't change the volume because it's got the raised guard. You'd be more likely to unswitch the Hold slider as to change the volume. Tight pants pocket is a bad idea for taping anyway.

If you're worried about the remote....don't plug it in.

The reason why I don't use the remote is that it will stop a recording even when the hold is engaged. It hasn't been a problem for me, but it's enough of a risk for me to avoid the remote.

[flicflac]

Tight pants pocket is a bad idea for taping anyway.

Tight pants may be a bad idea whatever the situation
J/K

[mloewen]

I have had an H2 Zoom and now have the Sony M-10 and my advice is get the M-10 as soon as you can afford to and sell you Zoom in the yard sale here. I sold mine to a guy in Italy.
Also look up Chris Church in the retail store  get a preamp and some C-14s or maybe just a battery box if you only record loud shows. You can get much more expensive Mics but the C-14s will give a good recording for the price.( check for recordings on Live Archive made with Ca 9100, C-14s and the M-10 and judge for your self}  There is debate as to which Mic the omni or cartoid. I use cartoid to cut out noise from behind me but in some cases the omni may do a better job. But don't be afraid to get the Sony I love mine and could not go back. Oh I saw an H2 Zoom new for 99.00 at Best Buy the other day. M-10 are 229.00 with postage included several places online. Best investment in recording you can make besides Church products IMHO.  Then you need to get a mic stand and the many other little things you will find you need happy taping.

[phaedarus]

I'm in the same predicament.

I want to record strictly foley sounds to enhance some non-critical video work and was told an H1 would be ideal due to the mic arrangement (I have no plans to invest in an external microphone).

For whatever reason, Sony's recorders are ridiculously priced here in Canada ($650 for the PCM D-50).

The H1 price seems like a very attractive alternative being that it is just a little over $100.

Has anyone tried doing any foley work with the H1?

[Ozpeter]

Skimming this thread there does seem to be some potential for someone reading it to be confused between the audio quality of the devices under discussion when used variously with internal mics, external mics directly connected to a recorder's mic input socket, and external mics connected via a preamp to a line input socket. 

Every recorder has different strengths and weaknesses in each of these departments, not always just in respect of self noise.  For instance, if you use a Zoom H2 (or H1 or H2N) built in mics for most of your recordings, and you switch to a Sony M10, you will probably be disappointed (the Sony's mics give a close-to-mono sound, even though they are low on self noise).  If comparing a Zoom H2 mic input to a Sony M10 mic input, you'll probably be delighted with the latter (but the H2N is no disaster on the other hand).  Etc etc.

[celtic]

I bought an M10 and it arrived today. It is very small, which is great and very easy to use.  I will be using a Church Battery Box and Church CA14 Cards and will be recording mainly rock bands in small theatres and large arena's.
Would the Best settings be as follow's, yes???

Rec Level: Manual
Mic Sens: Low
DPC(Speed CTRL) : Off
Record Level: 4-5
Line In
Low Cut Filter: On
Limiter:Off

Also why line-in and not mic in?? Mic-in is easily twice as loud as line-in on playback. Is line-in more for those using a pre-amp?


If using Cross Memory recording will it switch from internal memory to card seamlessly?

[acidjack]

I bought an M10 and it arrived today. It is very small, which is great and very easy to use.  I will be using a Church Battery Box and Church CA14 Cards and will be recording mainly rock bands in small theatres and large arena's.
Would the Best settings be as follow's, yes???

Rec Level: Manual
Mic Sens: Low
DPC(Speed CTRL) : Off
Record Level: 4-5
Line In
Low Cut Filter: On
Limiter:Off

Also why line-in and not mic in?? Mic-in is easily twice as loud as line-in on playback. Is line-in more for those using a pre-amp?


If using Cross Memory recording will it switch from internal memory to card seamlessly?

Turn off the low-cut filter.

The line-in should be tried first; if you can't get a loud enough signal, go mic-in.  With Church gear you may very well end up going mic-in to get decent levels, depending what you are recording. The line level input is just less hot than the mic input.

[celtic]

I bought an M10 and it arrived today. It is very small, which is great and very easy to use.  I will be using a Church Battery Box and Church CA14 Cards and will be recording mainly rock bands in small theatres and large arena's.
Would the Best settings be as follow's, yes???

Rec Level: Manual
Mic Sens: Low
DPC(Speed CTRL) : Off
Record Level: 4-5
Line In
Low Cut Filter: On
Limiter:Off

Also why line-in and not mic in?? Mic-in is easily twice as loud as line-in on playback. Is line-in more for those using a pre-amp?


If using Cross Memory recording will it switch from internal memory to card seamlessly?

Turn off the low-cut filter.

The line-in should be tried first; if you can't get a loud enough signal, go mic-in.  With Church gear you may very well end up going mic-in to get decent levels, depending what you are recording. The line level input is just less hot than the mic input.

OK! Thanks Acidjack.