Fostex FR-2 users?

[BobW]

Now for classical and jazz, the game's in a new park, IMHO.

I think it's 24/48 for me until these issues get worked out by drivers or software updates.

What do you hear as the most dramatic improvement in going from 24/48 to 24/96 ?
I'm just starting to play with this and want to focus my attention.
So far, I think the cymbals have a slightly different "sizzle."
I don't have A-B sources for good comps.

[MattD]

This is also with no A-B (resampled 24/96 to 24/48 doesn't count), but I seem to place instruments in the stereo image better at 24/96. The leading edge of a snare hit has more of a *SNAP* to it. I second your observation on cymbals as well. The attack of brass instruments is more natural as well and not as muddy.

I don't know if I could A-B the difference between a good 48k source and a good 96k source though. I would be willing to bet that I can't tell between 96k and 192k, though.

[wboswell]

And here lies the crux of the issue: file size v. sonic improvement for non-studio environments.

[sickrick43]

Whoops, sorry Rick.  Saw that manual link on another forum and couldn't wait to share.  Didn't even see it till' you pointed it out.  My bad.  Anyways, my point was that the max file size is 2 gigs, not four, as your post infers.

S.

Callery, who actually HAS one of these, informed us (earlier in the thread <SLAP> uh sorry) that Fostex released a firmware update that up'd max filesize to 4GB (which I mentioned in my post).  I know I ramble sometimes, was just trying to pass along as much info as possible, after speed-reading the manual...

Rick

Matt,

I had read an article in EQ or Mix a couple of years back, about Pat Metheny switching to digital after being a SWORN analog only guy (in the studio).  It was the 24/96 that won him over.  I agree that the ambient noise of a rock concert wouldn't take advantage of the added detail on the low end of the spectrum, but the overall added headroom and top-end detail might make it worth it.  But still keeping in mind that quoted specs are 100db (and the V3 for example is 107db).  I wonder if that's just the specs for the INPUT SECTION, and the deck will still write 107dB from a digi in?

This still has a long way to go.  I think I mentioned earlier in the thread, that Lexar has an 8GB CF card out.  Can't find pricing on it, but the 4GB is $1,400 retail.  This looks like a real viable system, with larger micro or 1.8" PCMCIA drives (Hitachi/Travelstar makes 20 & 40GB http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/c4k40/c4k40_ov.htm - but no one is mounting them in a CardBus adapter yet - another DIY project).  Until the storage media gets larger and more cost effective, this is still out of reach for what we intend for it.  Tho the deck itself is pretty low-cost (considering I paid just over $2k for my D-10 Pro in '90)...

[jacallery]

Hey, I'm testing the 4gb file size at 24/96 now, just off my computer spreakers.   I will let it run through the 4 gb (actually got 2hr 4min rec
time at 24/96 on 4gb) and see how it starts (if) a new file.  I am also
testing the Rec Standby "quickhit" and gonna see if the pre rec. buffer
will take care of the gap. This will let me know if I can start a file if needed without losing much if any recording.  

I just soldered my adaptaplug to my 4pin xlr and I have power
from my 12v.  In theory I should get around 15hr of power
from my 12v 7.2hr sla (12x7.2/5.7=15.16hr).  But it will vary.

I transfered my show from the other night.
It took me 15 min to transfer a 1hr 10min set, and I was running some
other programs on the PC so it may have done it faster.
I liked the results.. I will have to try it by starting at unity gain
going line in(per Fostex tech) and adjust from there.  I
am going to try to record a band Fri night and will use the unit
as a all-n-box.   I will also try the quiet recording this weekend
to test the Preamp's gain noise.


I'm going to bed .........goodnight.
callery

[Stuart]

Hey Rick,


"Callery, who actually HAS one of these, informed us (earlier in the thread <SLAP> uh sorry) that Fostex released a firmware update that up'd max filesize to 4GB (which I mentioned in my post)."
Geez, I didn't think that missing something on another page of a forum thread necessarily should precipitate the audio-pimp beat-down reference.  I'm actually only curious about the deck, and not in a little forum lurker ass-sniffing, okay?  I'm not trying to piss on your fire hydrant by posting here, so please, be kind and indulge my complete ignorance and lack of observational prowess with a tiny bit of restraint.  I'm new here and don't have any friends, yet.

Thanks,
Stuart

[BobW]

Stuart-
+T   - the beatings get softer over time ( )

I've been told to read before posting once or twice myself. I tend to speed read and miss a point or two because of the varied writing styles. There's a lot of backgrounds in this community and it shows in the syntax.
It will get smoother.
It's also not as easy to find the cynical stuff in text. I toss a smilie in when I'm attempting humor or cynicism, usually it come across.

[sickrick43]

Hey Rick,


"Callery, who actually HAS one of these, informed us (earlier in the thread <SLAP> uh sorry) that Fostex released a firmware update that up'd max filesize to 4GB (which I mentioned in my post)."
Geez, I didn't think that missing something on another page of a forum thread necessarily should precipitate the audio-pimp beat-down reference.  I'm actually only curious about the deck, and not in a little forum lurker ass-sniffing, okay?  I'm not trying to piss on your fire hydrant by posting here, so please, be kind and indulge my complete ignorance and lack of observational prowess with a tiny bit of restraint.  I'm new here and don't have any friends, yet.

Thanks,
Stuart

Not at all dude.  It was on the same post (in this thread).  I'll be your friend, and everyone appreciates enthusiasm (hell, +T for enthusiasm).  Just READ.  You replied 2 posts back, that you missed my post about the manual (which kinda inferred to me that you READ IT), and then INSIST that:

Didn't even see it till' you pointed it out.  My bad.  Anyways, my point was that the max file size is 2 gigs, not four, as your post infers.

Which tells me, even if you >READ IT<, you didn't READ IT.

My posts, while sometimes rambling (especially the technical ones), are usually carefully checked for accuracy before I press POST.  It's just funny that you responded to a heads up about this info already being on this thread, and then try and CYA by correcting me (which you would not have found necessary, had you READ the post).  Hence the SLAP.

We on the same page now?  Good.  

I'm very interested in this deck, and glad that Callery has volunteered to be out guinea-pig on this piece (instead of me for a change).  I have a whole garage full of shit I bought, that just didn't quite work out (but it's FUN to watch the wooks paw thru it when I put a dumpster-load out for bulk pickup, on the rare occasions when I get tired of tripping over it).

Still pissed?  Join the club - plenty of people here pissed at me   .  I've found it pays to be a little thick-skinned here.  If I thrived on thier approval (like some others do), it might actually hurt my feelings.  Don't read my posts.  But you just might miss out on that important piece of info you've been looking for, if you do (like 4GB maxfilesize in the last Fostex firmware update).

'Nuff Said...

Rick

I see Bob is your friend now too.  See, you have TWO friends here now...  Bob, I said "uh sorry", after I slapped him.  I guess I'll have to start using kewl emoticons more often...  

[scb]

>Who anticipates recording 24/96 every show anyway?  While I certainly want to give it a go, I just don't think the storage hassle is worth it considering the type of music I typically capture.  Onstage or in a perfect setting, then yes, I would like to go 96k, but for the average show I record, I don't really think the gain v. hassle will be worth it<<

Like matt, 24/96 is what won me over.  i really couldn't tell a difference (on my old playback system) between 24/48 and 16/44.1, but at 24/96 i start to notice that one just sounds more "real".  so now i try to do 24/96 for every open taping show i go to.  got last night's allmans in 24/96.  it's between 5.5 and 6 gigs i think uncompressed.  set 1 will be 1 dvd-a, set 2 another

[Stuart]

Don't worry about it, Rick.  Apology accepted.

Forum drama aside,
I've bitten the bullet and told my neighbor who works at Location Sound to hold one of these for me.  He said they should be in on Monday.  I just hope the pre's sound pretty good, and that the a-d isn't too bad.  It's probably fine for what I need it to do, at least if the Pd-2 and 4 are any indication.  

I got an animation and a couple of video game gigs coming up that need "all new design" elements.  No more commercial library stuff, these guys want the real deal.  Almost everything's been done to death these days, and I'm hoping to create some really new sounds with this.  I'm hoping that this trick of super-high sample rate elements pitched way down will produce the otherworldly harmonics and overtones that I need for these designs/special weapons/dark ambiances.  I need a lot of magic and sword-metal type stuff, wood breaks,  big doors, reverberant spaces, rock hits of all sorts, along with big gun mechanics and the like.  (I go out to the Arizona desert and destroy shit to make weird noises, which has proven to be an endeavor both cathartic AND lots of fun)
   Though somehow I doubt hardcore audiophile music guys are interested in this sort of thing, then again maybe some of you are.  I'd like to get to know you if this is of any interest.  

Any experiences making trippy sounds by drastically slowing down 192k or 96k files?  Does it maintain the nice liquidity of 1/4" tape and sampling boxes like the Synclavier?

Also, any cool suggestions as to places near LA/soCal/Arizona area to record that kind of stuff (parks or public areas with abanonded buildings, bunkers, silos, crazy sounding props, machines, etc.)?  I'm really interested in anything anybody has to add.

S.  

[BobW]

I see Bob is your friend now too.  See, you have TWO friends here now...  Bob, I said "uh sorry", after I slapped him.  I guess I'll have to start using kewl emoticons more often...  

When I see a button, I just got to push it  

[Stuart]

Hey Bob, I think our steins just clinked! Cheers!

[sickrick43]

Hey Bob, I think our steins just clinked! Cheers!

Hey, that was MY STEINS.

That deck oughta be real useful for SFX recording in 192/16.  Lotta bits there to manipulate and create weirdness with.  Ever consider making samples out of your captures and manipulating them with a midi/synth?

Rick

[Stuart]

Actually, that's exactly what I do.  I'm using Reason right now with Pro Tools TDM, and Reason's software samplers can take up to 24/96 (even when Rewired into a 16/48 PT session).  After recording stuff, I cut it up into little snippits and I map those samples to keys on a midi keyboard and play them against picture in Pro Tools or Logic Audio.  The plan is to SRC the captures (I'm gonna record everything at 192K to future-proof) down to 96k and pop em' into Reason.  I've built lots of kits like this already (gun kits, skateboard kits, magic kits, and fight kits with punches and blocks and body falls & such).  Reason doesn't traditionally have the best sounding samplers (they're flexible as hell though), but I don't want to have to buy Akai hardware at this point in the game.  It's really fun but kinda tedius unless you're really into it.

   I've done a few features and a couple of tv shows like this, and it's a pretty cool way to deal with sound effects to picture, especially  transient sounds like swords and any other kind of impacts.
 
   I'm hoping the high sample rates are going to provide some really novel textures because the Nyquist frequency barrier will take much longer to kick in as you pitch the sounds downward (and the drastic 24dB/octave filters won't be necessary either).  Those high harmonics that would be inaudible with DAT or 1/4" tape can become audible now, and even generic sounds will maintain much more character instead of turning into digital grunge.  Lord know what's going on up there at 50kHz, you know? Hopefully it'll be really cool!

S.

[wboswell]

>Who anticipates recording 24/96 every show anyway?  While I certainly want to give it a go, I just don't think the storage hassle is worth it considering the type of music I typically capture.  Onstage or in a perfect setting, then yes, I would like to go 96k, but for the average show I record, I don't really think the gain v. hassle will be worth it<<

Like matt, 24/96 is what won me over.  i really couldn't tell a difference (on my old playback system) between 24/48 and 16/44.1, but at 24/96 i start to notice that one just sounds more "real".  so now i try to do 24/96 for every open taping show i go to.  got last night's allmans in 24/96.  it's between 5.5 and 6 gigs i think uncompressed.  set 1 will be 1 dvd-a, set 2 another

thanks Scott. That was the kind of answer I was looking for...  I just purchased a universal disc player and will finally have a chance to try out dvd-a recordings