Topic: Here is the type of show I want to record....

[imsammyd]

Hello TapersSection.  This is my first post, but I have read many threads trying to get info. 

So here is the stuff that I typically want to record: http://youtu.be/vAKPdTN_r10?hd=1

I live in Nashville and love to go in these small clubs, especially this one.  The Bass and guitar are straight through the amp.  The vocals and acoustic guitar and maybe some drums come out of the monitors.  There are 2 monitors overhead, you can kind of see them in the video.

That audio was recorded on my aging Zoom H2, then I sync it up with the video afterwards.  I hate that part.  My ideal would be to record directly into my DSLR. 

Stealth isn't much of an issue.  I would rather have something low profile, but I don't care if people see I am taping.  If I could run the whole rig from my camera bag, that would be fantastic.

Questions:
So if you wanted to record this band on a budget of ~$300 what would YOU get?
I want to record straight into my DSLR.  The audio format is Linear PCM.  Is that reasonable or am I going to sacrifice quality?
How far away from the band would you sit and how would you position the mics?

Thanks in advance!

[chinariderstl]

So you're just looking for a point-and-shoot, all-in-one solution?  With decent audio?  If your DSLR has a stereo audio in jack, I'm assuming it does, probably a stereo mini jack, you could always get a stereo mic like the two below, the Audio Technica AT8022 and the Rode Stereo Mic Pro.  Or you could even look into getting a pair of Audio Technica AT853's that terminate to a stereo mini plug with the 4.7k mod.  Sound Professionals offers that solution.

# Audio-Technica AT8022
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=602080&Q=&is=REG&A=details

# Rode Stereo VideoMic Pro
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/839897-REG/Rode_STEREO_VIDEOMIC_PRO_Sterei_VideoMic_Pro.html

# AT853
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U

[eman]

Unless you keep your camera pointed, get a separate stand or clamp on stand to keep the mics pointed as you pan around with the camera. I guess that's kind of obvious but I've seen video guys do the obviously wrong thing before. If you find that the signal overloads the camera you may need to get an attenuating cable. I like the 853 solution.

[allan]

what DSLR do you have? They're not exactly the best for recording sound, especially loud stuff, you'd probly need a Juicedlink or Beachtek box.

[F.O.Bean]

you could also run church audio ca14 cardioids into a ca battery box/preamp and run the mini 1/8" cable into the mini jack of the dslr, if it has that kind of input

[imsammyd]

Thanks Everyone.

It is a canon 60d.  It has a 3.5 jack for an external mic.  I used put my zoom on -10 and set the gain on the camera to the lowest possible and it still overloaded the audio. 

That JuicedLink looks like just what the doctor ordered.  I can't tell if it has power or if I would need a battery box with it.   

What about Mics?  Everywhere on this forum, I see the CA-14's.  They aren't available on the website though.  Any suggestions on a product that I could buy from Amazon or other big store?

[acidjack]

Thanks Everyone.

It is a canon 60d.  It has a 3.5 jack for an external mic.  I used put my zoom on -10 and set the gain on the camera to the lowest possible and it still overloaded the audio. 

That JuicedLink looks like just what the doctor ordered.  I can't tell if it has power or if I would need a battery box with it.   

What about Mics?  Everywhere on this forum, I see the CA-14's.  They aren't available on the website though.  Any suggestions on a product that I could buy from Amazon or other big store?

To get the CA-14s, you have to email Chris directly.  See "Retail Space" below.

Their functional mass-market equivalent is the Audio Technica 853 (by "equivalent" I mean "sounds about as good and not much bigger").  You can buy those as the model "SP-CMC-4" from http://www.soundprofessionals.com  You do need to make sure they have the "low sensitivity" modification if they are going to be terminated in a 1/8" stereo miniplug.

The CA-14s cost less and are a little smaller.  Some prefer the sound of them, some prefer the Audio Technicas.

[imsammyd]

Good God AcidJack!  Your recordings sound fantastic!  I downloaded the Vetiver show.  I looked up some of the mics in your signature.  Downright intimidating.  Do you remember what you used on that show?

[acidjack]

Good God AcidJack!  Your recordings sound fantastic!  I downloaded the Vetiver show.  I looked up some of the mics in your signature.  Downright intimidating.  Do you remember what you used on that show?

Thanks!    The Vetiver show was a 4-channel SBD/AUD mix, with the AUD portion with Berliner CM-33 mics, which run about $400 new on eBay.  I think they are an excellent mic for the price.  On a vaguely related note, I may actually be selling my set - not because I don't like them, but because I subsequently picked up some other mics that are similar.

I've also made what I think are some very nice recordings with the Audio Technica 853s that I mentioned, like this: http://www.nyctaper.com/2009/09/maserati-september-28-2009-bowery-ballroom-flac-and-mp3-downloads/ and this one, which you can stream: http://archive.org/details/mogwai2009-04-29.flac16_638

While my more expensive mics make more *consistently* great recordings - you can do a whole hell of a lot with a lot less. That Mogwai recording I linked to, in particular, is about as good as any pure audience recording I've done with any of the mics I own, I think.

[imsammyd]

Thanks!    The Vetiver show was a 4-channel SBD/AUD mix, with the AUD portion with Berliner CM-33 mics, which run about $400 new on eBay.  I think they are an excellent mic for the price.  On a vaguely related note, I may actually be selling my set - not because I don't like them, but because I subsequently picked up some other mics that are similar.

I've also made what I think are some very nice recordings with the Audio Technica 853s that I mentioned, like this: http://www.nyctaper.com/2009/09/maserati-september-28-2009-bowery-ballroom-flac-and-mp3-downloads/ and this one, which you can stream: http://archive.org/details/mogwai2009-04-29.flac16_638

While my more expensive mics make more *consistently* great recordings - you can do a whole hell of a lot with a lot less. That Mogwai recording I linked to, in particular, is about as good as any pure audience recording I've done with any of the mics I own, I think.

You're right.  It sounds spectacular.  Even better than the Vetiver show.  The bass was perfect.  Even the audience sounded good.  So, that was the Audio Technica mics, a battery box and then recorded on the R-09HR. 

I would need a pre-amp of some type to roll the gain back and provide power.  Since you are batting 1000, do you have a suggestion?  How do you feel about letting my DSLR record?

[acidjack]

Thanks!    The Vetiver show was a 4-channel SBD/AUD mix, with the AUD portion with Berliner CM-33 mics, which run about $400 new on eBay.  I think they are an excellent mic for the price.  On a vaguely related note, I may actually be selling my set - not because I don't like them, but because I subsequently picked up some other mics that are similar.

I've also made what I think are some very nice recordings with the Audio Technica 853s that I mentioned, like this: http://www.nyctaper.com/2009/09/maserati-september-28-2009-bowery-ballroom-flac-and-mp3-downloads/ and this one, which you can stream: http://archive.org/details/mogwai2009-04-29.flac16_638

While my more expensive mics make more *consistently* great recordings - you can do a whole hell of a lot with a lot less. That Mogwai recording I linked to, in particular, is about as good as any pure audience recording I've done with any of the mics I own, I think.

You're right.  It sounds spectacular.  Even better than the Vetiver show.  The bass was perfect.  Even the audience sounded good.  So, that was the Audio Technica mics, a battery box and then recorded on the R-09HR. 

I would need a pre-amp of some type to roll the gain back and provide power.  Since you are batting 1000, do you have a suggestion?  How do you feel about letting my DSLR record?

Yes, those two were just AT853>battery box>R-09.

I have never tried recording audio into a DSLR camera, so I have no idea whether that would work.  The basic things you'd need would be:

- line-level input
- a fixed position to record from (as others have noted, having the mic attached to a camera and moving all around is not optimal for audio)
- some way to adjust the levels as well as monitor them (I'm guessing this could be a problem with the camera, but I don't shoot video)

I don't think you need a preamp. That show you posted from YouTube is amplified; it should be plenty loud enough to get a good signal without using a preamp to provide more gain.  However, as I said, I am not familiar with recording into DSLR cameras, so you'd have to ask someone else about that.

The optimal thing to do would be to get a cheap deck, a battery box, and some of those Audio Technica 853s or CA-14s (with the CA-14s, you could buy new and be all-in under $300), put the whole setup somewhere in the venue that's centered and out of the way (at the board, for example) and run that from there, then sync later.

[F.O.Bean]

I would think a battery box at the very least would do you really well. In fact, when I had CA14s and a CA9100/SP Battery Box, I used the SP BB WAY MORE than I did the CA 9100 Run CA14/AT853>Battery Box>DSLR, and I think that would solve your problem

[imsammyd]

I would think a battery box at the very least would do you really well. In fact, when I had CA14s and a CA9100/SP Battery Box, I used the SP BB WAY MORE than I did the CA 9100 Run CA14/AT853>Battery Box>DSLR, and I think that would solve your problem

Thanks F.O.  I emailed the church audio dude.  That is probably what I will do. I might run it through my zoom first so that I can turn down the gain a bit and dual record.  I think I am going to go CA114 to a battery box though.  Thanks everyone for your advice!

[acidjack]

I would think a battery box at the very least would do you really well. In fact, when I had CA14s and a CA9100/SP Battery Box, I used the SP BB WAY MORE than I did the CA 9100 Run CA14/AT853>Battery Box>DSLR, and I think that would solve your problem

Thanks F.O.  I emailed the church audio dude.  That is probably what I will do. I might run it through my zoom first so that I can turn down the gain a bit and dual record.  I think I am going to go CA114 to a battery box though.  Thanks everyone for your advice!

I won't (ever) claim to be a fan of Zoom's recorders, but it can at least take a line-level input and as long as it doesn't break, should be alright for your purposes, as long as you have the good mics and battery box.  The M10 has better internal preamps and is more reliable, but the Zoom certainly "works"

[runonce]

The 9100 might be useful to interface with the camera.

I think the 9100 has variable output attenuator (ie a knob)...

Using the variable output might be the best way to address the camera - and be sure you wont brickwall/overload its input.

But - I also agree with acidjack about recording your audio separately...the camera audio might be good as backup though.