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Author Topic: SD7xx Tone Generator  (Read 6074 times)

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Offline OOK

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SD7xx Tone Generator
« on: January 11, 2013, 09:08:37 PM »
I just discovered that the SD7xx series recorders have a tone generator signal on them.  You can set the level and frequency of the tone.  I was able calibrate my R09HR to a -12 signal.  Which unity gain on the line in is 40.  Cool feature....  great for setting your levels on the R09HR then running a preamp into it....

Peace OOK
« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 09:10:13 PM by OOK »
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2013, 10:15:11 PM »
I usually use the tone generator on my fp-24 to calibrate gear. Never thought to use the 722...

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2013, 09:57:05 AM »
It is a cool feature.

But beware.  In earlier versions of the firmware the tone button remained active even when the hold was supposedly engaged!  I discovered that one the hard way.  That may have since been corrected.

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2013, 11:27:10 AM »
I usually use the tone generator on my fp-24 to calibrate gear. Never thought to use the 722...

I've used it to calibrate other gear before. Definitely one of those features that doesn't get used much, but is real handy when you need it.
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Offline DigiGal

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2013, 11:55:51 AM »
Tone Generator's are on all Sound Devices Mixers too.   An essential production tool for professional grade gear, like SMPTE Color Bars are for video.
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Offline johnw

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2013, 12:30:12 PM »
I just discovered that the SD7xx series recorders have a tone generator signal on them.  You can set the level and frequency of the tone.  I was able calibrate my R09HR to a -12 signal.  Which unity gain on the line in is 40.  Cool feature....  great for setting your levels on the R09HR then running a preamp into it....

Peace OOK

How did you do this? I assume line out of the 7xx and into the R09 and then adjust the level until it matched -12? I would think that the 7xx output would add gain but maybe not.
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Offline OOK

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2013, 12:41:41 PM »
How did you do this? I assume line out of the 7xx and into the R09 and then adjust the level until it matched -12? I would think that the 7xx output would add gain but maybe not.

That is exactly how I did it.  It doesn't add gain but you can set the level tone to whatever output you want.  I did -12 line out of the SD to line in of the R09HR and adjusted the R09HR till it read -12 on its level meter.  When that was done I checked -20 and sure enough it read -20 on the R09HR.  very cool feature....
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2013, 01:57:59 PM »
How did you do this? I assume line out of the 7xx and into the R09 and then adjust the level until it matched -12? I would think that the 7xx output would add gain but maybe not.

That is exactly how I did it.  It doesn't add gain but you can set the level tone to whatever output you want.  I did -12 line out of the SD to line in of the R09HR and adjusted the R09HR till it read -12 on its level meter.  When that was done I checked -20 and sure enough it read -20 on the R09HR.  very cool feature....

well... The lack of math involved here has me worried as to how much benefit you're getting. Maybe you just didn't include that, but I'd check a few things first:

1) What is your 722 set to output on (is there any pad, if not, then the tape out is one value and the mini-xlrs are +20dbu). It's a setting in the menu.
2) What's the max input on the r09hr?
3) What are you setting the tone to (dbfs rating)?

One you get #1 and #3, you can figure out the dbu of the signal as it's leaving the 722, and then once you figure out the max in (which would represent 0dbfs with no gain added). Now, if you already know that the setting of 40 is unity, you can find out what #2 is which is handy in calibrating preamps for maximum output to the recorder (e.g. if a setting of 40 is unity, and you find out that your signal is really +23dbu at that point, then if you preamp only goes to +20dbu before crapping out, add 3db as tested by the 722's tone generator to the r09 so that it clips at the same time as your preamp). It's that last aspect that is particularly handy. That's actually how I found out that the voltage you feed an old sonosax determines where it overloads.
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Offline OOK

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2013, 02:05:42 PM »
It is a setting in the menu:

On the SD702 it is menu # 61.  I have the level set to -12dbfs
Then the tone is selected by menu #62.  I have the tone set to 100hz
Then tone mode is selected by menu #63.  It is set to outputs only.

So the SD702 sends a tone to the outputs only of 100hz at -12dbfs.

DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2013, 02:46:47 PM »
It is a setting in the menu:

On the SD702 it is menu # 61.  I have the level set to -12dbfs
Then the tone is selected by menu #62.  I have the tone set to 100hz
Then tone mode is selected by menu #63.  It is set to outputs only.

So the SD702 sends a tone to the outputs only of 100hz at -12dbfs.

ok, so that answers #3. While unlikely, your setting for #1 would create a different output even though it's registering -12dbfs on the unit.

Did you use the tape out or the mini-xlr out?
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline OOK

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2013, 02:53:47 PM »
It is a setting in the menu:

On the SD702 it is menu # 61.  I have the level set to -12dbfs
Then the tone is selected by menu #62.  I have the tone set to 100hz
Then tone mode is selected by menu #63.  It is set to outputs only.

So the SD702 sends a tone to the outputs only of 100hz at -12dbfs.

ok, so that answers #3. While unlikely, your setting for #1 would create a different output even though it's registering -12dbfs on the unit.

Did you use the tape out or the mini-xlr out?

Tape Output.  i don't have mini XLR to mini cable.
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2013, 02:57:16 PM »
It is a setting in the menu:

On the SD702 it is menu # 61.  I have the level set to -12dbfs
Then the tone is selected by menu #62.  I have the tone set to 100hz
Then tone mode is selected by menu #63.  It is set to outputs only.

So the SD702 sends a tone to the outputs only of 100hz at -12dbfs.

ok, so that answers #3. While unlikely, your setting for #1 would create a different output even though it's registering -12dbfs on the unit.

Did you use the tape out or the mini-xlr out?

Tape Output.  i don't have mini XLR to mini cable.

Ok, I'd have to look up in the manual what that is, but I think that's the -10db nominal out, but I can't remember what the peak is. I did the same when I calibrated my sonosax (3.5mm > trs > xlr). It's still doable, but you have to figure out what level it's sending.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline OOK

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 04:14:19 PM »
As I understand it the level you are sending is what you are adjusting on menu # 61. It is a fixed level.  whatever you are setting it to output is the fixed level.  if you send a -12dbfs that what it is sending a fixed tone at -12dbfs.  I too just ripped out the manual(page25 in mine, heading is tone oscillator)  and it states the tone level is adjustable over a range of -40dbfs to 0 dbfs.

OOK
DPA/HEB 4060's > R09HR
MBHO648/KA100Lk/KA200/KA300/KA500 > SD702

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2013, 04:25:13 PM »
As I understand it the level you are sending is what you are adjusting on menu # 61. It is a fixed level.  whatever you are setting it to output is the fixed level.  if you send a -12dbfs that what it is sending a fixed tone at -12dbfs.  I too just ripped out the manual(page25 in mine, heading is tone oscillator)  and it states the tone level is adjustable over a range of -40dbfs to 0 dbfs.

yeah, your dbfs is the same, but the output in dbu (which is what the max in on the next piece of gear is looking at) is different based on the connector by 15 or 20db. Different scales and functions.

To put it another way; line in and mic in both take vastly different signal strengths, yet both can register -12dbfs. This is the same thing, the signal you're sending downstream is not only different by connector on the 7 series, but whether you're padding it any is adjustable in the menu settings (all regardless of what the full scale read out on the unit is).
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: SD7xx Tone Generator
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2013, 05:23:48 PM »
Interesting thread.

 

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