Topic: Sound Pro CMC-25 vs CMC-8

[hobbes4444]

I've been a long time fan of the AT933 hypercards (similar to CMC-8's I guess) and thinking after 15 years it may be time for a new pair and move those to a back up.  I like croakie mounts since i wear glasses, so i'm debating between the newer CMC-25 and the CMC-8.  While Church Audio mics do an excellent job, I prefer the sound of the ATs to his mics. 

So lkg for comments from anyone who has used the CMC-8's and 25's.  Are the 25's as prone to wind rumble as the CMC-8 hypercards?  Seems like the 25's are closer to hypercards than cards, but I don't think SP has a pickup pattern on their site.  Maybe I'll just get a set of each with the upcoming sale. . .

Thanks!!

[bombdiggity]

The CMC-25s are my favorite miniature mic (though the discontinued AT-853a with subcards can also make real nice recordings).  They nearly always sound a lot better than it did at the show...  In less than ideal halls I will bring the CMC-25's and leave the Schoeps at home (and in really good conditions the differences are actually subtle enough very few people outside a taper crowd could actually notice them).  The CMC-25's really shine in muddy sounding places (they cut right through that stuff).  For the money the CMC-25's are a real deal.  I like them far better than much more expensive miniature (and full sized) mics. 

I suggest the optional larger windscreens SP has with them.  Short of a real hard breeze I've not had any wind issues with them.  If it is blowing loud enough you can see the wind on the levels I cover them completely with a thin shirt.  It's better than major wind noise and seems not to lose anything too important to the sound (at least relative to the rumble it would have had). 

I've heard good recordings from CMC-8's too but don't think they're as versatile.  I haven't owned any so don't have the experience with them. 

[beroti_music]

The CMC-25s are my favorite miniature mic (though the discontinued AT-853a with subcards can also make real nice recordings).  They nearly always sound a lot better than it did at the show...  In less than ideal halls I will bring the CMC-25's and leave the Schoeps at home (and in really good conditions the differences are actually subtle enough very few people outside a taper crowd could actually notice them).  The CMC-25's really shine in muddy sounding places (they cut right through that stuff).  For the money the CMC-25's are a real deal.  I like them far better than much more expensive miniature (and full sized) mics. 

I suggest the optional larger windscreens SP has with them.  Short of a real hard breeze I've not had any wind issues with them.  If it is blowing loud enough you can see the wind on the levels I cover them completely with a thin shirt.  It's better than major wind noise and seems not to lose anything too important to the sound (at least relative to the rumble it would have had). 

I've heard good recordings from CMC-8's too but don't think they're as versatile.  I haven't owned any so don't have the experience with them.

Do the cmc-25's need the 4.7K mod if powered with a Church Audio Ugly-Battery Box or Church Audio STC-9000 preamp?

[Falconidave]

BTW, Sound Pros is having a 40% off everything sale starting tonight at midnight, regular sale price $349. Plus free shipping and ZERO tax.  Out the door for $209.40   Had to, couldn't help myself...
 

[hobbes4444]

The CMC-25s are my favorite miniature mic (though the discontinued AT-853a with subcards can also make real nice recordings).  They nearly always sound a lot better than it did at the show...  In less than ideal halls I will bring the CMC-25's and leave the Schoeps at home (and in really good conditions the differences are actually subtle enough very few people outside a taper crowd could actually notice them).  The CMC-25's really shine in muddy sounding places (they cut right through that stuff).  For the money the CMC-25's are a real deal.  I like them far better than much more expensive miniature (and full sized) mics. 

I suggest the optional larger windscreens SP has with them.  Short of a real hard breeze I've not had any wind issues with them.  If it is blowing loud enough you can see the wind on the levels I cover them completely with a thin shirt.  It's better than major wind noise and seems not to lose anything too important to the sound (at least relative to the rumble it would have had). 

I've heard good recordings from CMC-8's too but don't think they're as versatile.  I haven't owned any so don't have the experience with them.

Do the cmc-25's need the 4.7K mod if powered with a Church Audio Ugly-Battery Box or Church Audio STC-9000 preamp?

Not 100% certain, but I think the 25's have the mod built in.  They have a right angle connector, which is how SP does their 4.7 mod to the AT943s.  But that is just pure speculation.  Not a lot of info on the 25s on the board.

[beroti_music]

BTW, Sound Pros is having a 40% off everything sale starting tonight at midnight, regular sale price $349. Plus free shipping and ZERO tax.  Out the door for $209.40   Had to, couldn't help myself...

That's why I asked...

[beroti_music]

The CMC-25s are my favorite miniature mic (though the discontinued AT-853a with subcards can also make real nice recordings).  They nearly always sound a lot better than it did at the show...  In less than ideal halls I will bring the CMC-25's and leave the Schoeps at home (and in really good conditions the differences are actually subtle enough very few people outside a taper crowd could actually notice them).  The CMC-25's really shine in muddy sounding places (they cut right through that stuff).  For the money the CMC-25's are a real deal.  I like them far better than much more expensive miniature (and full sized) mics. 

I suggest the optional larger windscreens SP has with them.  Short of a real hard breeze I've not had any wind issues with them.  If it is blowing loud enough you can see the wind on the levels I cover them completely with a thin shirt.  It's better than major wind noise and seems not to lose anything too important to the sound (at least relative to the rumble it would have had). 

I've heard good recordings from CMC-8's too but don't think they're as versatile.  I haven't owned any so don't have the experience with them.

Do the cmc-25's need the 4.7K mod if powered with a Church Audio Ugly-Battery Box or Church Audio STC-9000 preamp?

You need my 4.7k mod if you are going to run any of these mics 2 wire into my preamp.

Thanks for the answer Chris! I'll stick with the CA-14 cards. Makes me wonder: have you ever considered making super cardioids for concert taping? I would be interested in buying Church Audio super cards...!

[hobbes4444]

I don't know.  Perhaps it's not a 4.7k mod, but would seem to have a similar effect of increasing the max SPLs the mic can handle.   
Sound Professionals - This modification will retrofit a set Of Audio Technica mics to lower the sensitivity and increase max SPL - includes change to right angle connector
Their normal charge is $45, but they have a 40% off sale today only. . .

EDIT: I guess it is a 4.7kmod.  The description notes: THIS MODIFICATION RETROFITS A SET OF SP-CMC-2, SP-CMC-4 OR SP-CMC-8 MICROPHONES WITH 4.7K OHM RESISTORS TO LOWER THE MIC SENSITIVITY

The CMC-25s are my favorite miniature mic (though the discontinued AT-853a with subcards can also make real nice recordings).  They nearly always sound a lot better than it did at the show...  In less than ideal halls I will bring the CMC-25's and leave the Schoeps at home (and in really good conditions the differences are actually subtle enough very few people outside a taper crowd could actually notice them).  The CMC-25's really shine in muddy sounding places (they cut right through that stuff).  For the money the CMC-25's are a real deal.  I like them far better than much more expensive miniature (and full sized) mics. 

I suggest the optional larger windscreens SP has with them.  Short of a real hard breeze I've not had any wind issues with them.  If it is blowing loud enough you can see the wind on the levels I cover them completely with a thin shirt.  It's better than major wind noise and seems not to lose anything too important to the sound (at least relative to the rumble it would have had). 

I've heard good recordings from CMC-8's too but don't think they're as versatile.  I haven't owned any so don't have the experience with them.

Do the cmc-25's need the 4.7K mod if powered with a Church Audio Ugly-Battery Box or Church Audio STC-9000 preamp?

Not 100% certain, but I think the 25's have the mod built in.  They have a right angle connector, which is how SP does their 4.7 mod to the AT943s.  But that is just pure speculation.  Not a lot of info on the 25s on the board.

Actually you mean my mod right?

[acidjack]

The CMC-25 don't need any magical mods.

[Falconidave]

The CMC-25 don't need any magical mods.

Good to know, thank you!

[Church-Audio]

The CMC-25 don't need any magical mods.

I was mistaken I thought you were talking about AT mics..
Most of the 900 series and 800 series do need the mod if you are running them three wire. If you are running them three wire then no. And only if you are running at loud concert levels. At least according to the 100 or so I have modified over the last 6 years or so. They measure a distortion running two wire of over 7% THD at 1k at 114db. After my "magic mod" they run 0.5% THD at 1k at 114 db. So if you are going to use these mics 2 wire make sure you get the "magic mod" and they will work better.

[spybo]

FWIW
I've run CMC-25's, CMC-8 and CA 11 CARDS.....I prefer all of them!.
The simple reason is like the real estate agents tell ya....It's all about location location location!
We only have but a small number of decent venues where I'm at and I have found that different positions in the same venues offer different pulls....and wind will mostly affect all the above mics in croakies ( without ) screens....Recently I have managed to get into the "crowd" so to speak but the advantage is closer approximation to the stacks....always gives a better result.

For lower cost mics all the above will give excellent results....and I also give some credit to both Chris at Church Audio......always communicates well and has good opinions.....and for the price well you won't do much better i reckon......and also Chris from Soundpro again cool with communications and excellent products!

just my 2 cents worth ( plus VAT of course )

[Falconidave]

My first impression of the MS-CMC-25(new version) is very unfavorable. I ran them last night side by side with ATU853's at a small club show(Wang Chung). I've recorded hundreds of shows at this venue and I was in my usual sweet spot about 60' off of left stack.

The setups:

1) MS-CMC-25>CA UGLY>Sony M10 (levels at 5)

2) ATu853 card(old caps)>CA-9100>Edirol R09HR (levels at 45)

Line in on both units, preamp gain around 12db, and levels peaking between -12 & -6. Mics mounted literally side by side hat mounted.

The MS-CMC-25 recording sounds very thin, harsh, tinny, and achingly lacking in bottom end.  Meanwhile the ATu853 recording is full, deep and rich and sounds great! Big Bummer for Sound Pros!! I'm not impressed at all, and I will be sending them back all warm and cozy in their very own velvet(canvas) pouch.

[LikeASong]

Really? They're regarded as very good by many members here! Maybe give them another chance at another spot, a bit more forgiving for their pattern or something?

[yousef]

I've heard a few CMC-25 tapes and I find that they almost always sound too thin.

On one occasion I was trying to mix in a CMC-25 ambient source with a board feed but it sounded so bass light that I ended up being sent the file twice more because I assumed there was some weird phase or encoding problem.

They're good for supplementing a board feed that might be lacking some of the instruments but on their own they remind me too much of those "cut the bass, hype the treble" torrent site remasters.

Nice and small though.