Topic: Gefell M20 or the AKG CK61/63? better one?

[tgakidis]

Can't we all get along?  I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.

[acidjack]

Can't we all get along?  I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.

Er, based on the amount of gear in your sig Ted, is it possible to claim you own any gear you use "all the time"   

[grayp]

Can't we all get along?  I LOVE my NBob/PFA AKG actives and use them all the time.

agreed

[Jamos]

Not that I feel the need to explain myself to you..I know for a fact that you have continued to paint the actives in a bad way..it's quite obvious that you are pissed about us taking it to completion and of the cables that are out there not one person is unhappy with them tho you continually shit all over them..you sir need to grow up..I have also been told that you have talked all sorts of shit about our products via Pms so you call yourself a man?  Do me favor and go shit in your hat..
Good day sir..no more from me!

I know nothing of the history between you guys, but your comments certainly seem like the childish ones.
Seeing your posts would make me NOT want to purchase any product produced by you, no matter what another person said about them.


To the OP, the AKG ck capsules are great sounding microphones.  I think the Gefell sound is a little different, maybe described as smoother.  But the Gefell is more of a boutique item, and the AKG is more of a workhorse.
Both sound great, although I've not heard them without the standard mic bodies.

Good luck with your decision.

[John Willett]

When it comes to microphones, I have always rated (in alphabetical order): DPA, Gefell, Neumann, Schoeps and Sennheiser (MKH series) as the very best and pretty well equal overall - just different in concept and design.

AKG do seem to be getting more and more stuff made in the far East now, and I tend to rate them good, but lower than the top-5 above.

The Gefell SMS2000 series are excellent mics and worth every penny of the price.  But it does, in the end, come down to personal choice and if the mic. has the sound that you personally like.

Actually, I was at Gefell this week as it's the 85th anniversary of when Georg Neumann started the company, Georg Neumann KG, in 1928 (Georg Neumann KG own Gefell - Neumann Berlin is now owned by Sennheiser  )

A Brief History of Microtech Gefell

[jlykos]

Both are excellent microphones. I own Gefells and have heard more AKG tapes than anything else (probably because they are so popular). It really comes down to price and what you can afford. If price is an issue, get the AKGs. You will not be disappointed. If money is no object, get the Gefells. I prefer the Gefells to AKGs. Whether you can stomach the price difference is entirely up to you. This was an easier decision to make before Gefells started to significantly raise their prices over the past decade. The good news is that each microphone holds its resale value well so you can get rid of them easily if you decide that you do not like them.

There are a few other factors that go into the calculus. Customer service is one of them. I dropped a Gefell capsule once and had to have it serviced. I could not send it anywhere in the U.S. so I had to send it back to Germany for a rebuild at a cost of 400 Euros. Expensive mistake to be sure, but you may want to investigate whether you can have AKGs serviced for lower cost or in the U.S. On the other hand, Gefell customer service is incredible and they were able to take me through every step of the process, including locating the proper shipping method to send the capsule in and return it to Mali, which is where I was posted at the time.

Another factor is whether you plan to be taping for the long haul or if you are just getting your feet wet. I decided from the beginning that this was a hobby that I was going to pursue for a long time so I went ahead and got the more expensive option instead of flipping multiple sets of microphones. If you are unsure of whether you want to do this for a long time, go with the cheaper option and see if you enjoy it. It's the process and the music that I enjoy more than the gear anyway.

Finally, keep in mind that location is pretty much everything in taping. I have some recordings made with CSBs that blow away a lot of my other tapes with my big rig. The reason for this is location, positioning, and luck. The gear really doesn't have much to do with anything after a certain point.

John: How was the Gefell 85th celebration? I received an invite but could not make it. I need to plan a pilgrimage up there one day.

[Chuck]

I have Microtech Gefell M300's and AKG C-480's with CK-61 and CK-63 capsules and PFA actives. I go along with Jamos who said the AKG's are workhorses and Gefells are more boutique.

The Gefells pickup a sweeter mid-range and the high-end is well balanced. The AKG's pickup what I call a scooped upper mid-range and have a more aggressive high-end.

In a very nice sounding room with a good mix and good microphone placement it's hard to beat the sound of Microtech Gefell microphone recordings.

I find the AKGs more forgiving of placement and room acoustics. For example, the Gefells can sound muddy in a bassy venue or with a muddy mix. The AKG's often cut through and allow better recordings in those less than idea situations. That's why I think they are so popular with concert tapers.

If just starting out, get the AKG's they are cheaper and there is the option to run them as actives on the cheap. Move to the Gefells or other more expensive mics after you've recorded a bunch and have developed a preference for how you like your recordings to sound.

[SmokinJoe]

I've had Schoeps, Gefells, and different sets of AKG's.  I needed money, so I sold the Schoeps and Gefells, and I kick myself every show for selling the Gefells.  But my experience is using bodies, which is apples versus oranges to various active setups.  I think the simple answer is "if you don't know which you want, get the AKG's for 1/3 the cost".

[John Willett]

There are a few other factors that go into the calculus. Customer service is one of them. I dropped a Gefell capsule once and had to have it serviced. I could not send it anywhere in the U.S. so I had to send it back to Germany for a rebuild at a cost of 400 Euros. Expensive mistake to be sure, but you may want to investigate whether you can have AKGs serviced for lower cost or in the U.S. On the other hand, Gefell customer service is incredible and they were able to take me through every step of the process, including locating the proper shipping method to send the capsule in and return it to Mali, which is where I was posted at the time.

I have always preferred to have a microphone fixed by the manufacturer, whoever it is.

With Gefell microphones, I always recommend sending them back to Germany (the national distributor will help) as, after repair, they go back in the anechoic chamber and are checked to make sure they comply to the original spec., which Gefell keeps on file.  So you *know* it's done properly.  Also - if Gefell damage a capsule while in repair, it's replaced free of charge (I'm not sure what an independent repairer would do in this case).

John: How was the Gefell 85th celebration? I received an invite but could not make it. I need to plan a pilgrimage up there one day.

Excellent - even though I missed the flight due to massive traffic jams due to accidents on the M40 and M25 and decided to drive instead - round trip of 1,400 miles!

The event was great and the opening of the Georg Neumann Museum was extremely interesting with samples of the very early Neumann microphones back to 1928 - including the famous CMV3 bottle mic.

Jörg Wuttke (recently retired from Schoeps) was there and we had a great chat, I have known him for many years.

Interesting speeches during the dinner and I learned how Gefell kept in touch with Georg Neumann in Berlin after the end of the war; still working close until, finally the Iron Curtain and the Stasi put an end to the contact until 1989 when the wall came down.

Yes, an excellent time.