Topic: Need Help With Hi-8 Tapes

[nomotrouble]

I have also transferred 35 old tapes to digital. Think i still have the old camera in the box with the tapes. It takes awhile but it's straight forward. I would guess your best bet is to purchase a camcorder on ebay and try it yourself. Really rewarding to have digital copies. I transferred all of our old baby videos, my adult kids just love them now.

[2manyrocks]

I forget the Sony Camcorder model number that I used, but all I've ever done is transfer the hi-8 tape from the camcorder to my PC over firewire.  Would there be much room for improvement transferring the video over a canopus or other similar setup.  I've always assumed that the transfer from the camcorder was pretty much as good as it was likely to get because the original recordings just weren't that great to start with, but am I being mistaken?

[guitard]

I forget the Sony Camcorder model number that I used, but all I've ever done is transfer the hi-8 tape from the camcorder to my PC over firewire.  Would there be much room for improvement transferring the video over a canopus or other similar setup.  I've always assumed that the transfer from the camcorder was pretty much as good as it was likely to get because the original recordings just weren't that great to start with, but am I being mistaken?

I've used both methods quite a bit and have never noticed any difference.  Having said that - going straight from the video cam to the computer via firewire (known as analog to digital pass-through) only requires one connection (the firewire cable).  Going from a videocam to the Canopus requires RCA cables, and then from the Canopus to the computer requires a firewire.  So it stands to reason that you're increasing your chances for problems to occur if you use a set up that requires two connections vs one connection.

And on a related note - if you're in the market for a used digital 8mm cam that has analog to digital pass-through - be aware - some have it and some don't.  And there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason in terms of some model numbers in a series having it and others not having it, i.e., the DCR-TRV 240 has it, the DCR-TRV 260 may not have it, but the DCR-TRV 280 has it.  Unless you already know for a fact that a particular model number has it, make sure you ask the person selling the cam if it has analog to digital pass-through.

[2manyrocks]

Thanks.

[andante]

I forget the Sony Camcorder model number that I used, but all I've ever done is transfer the hi-8 tape from the camcorder to my PC over firewire.  Would there be much room for improvement transferring the video over a canopus or other similar setup.  I've always assumed that the transfer from the camcorder was pretty much as good as it was likely to get because the original recordings just weren't that great to start with, but am I being mistaken?

I've used both methods quite a bit and have never noticed any difference.  Having said that - going straight from the video cam to the computer via firewire (known as analog to digital pass-through) only requires one connection (the firewire cable).  Going from a videocam to the Canopus requires RCA cables, and then from the Canopus to the computer requires a firewire.  So it stands to reason that you're increasing your chances for problems to occur if you use a set up that requires two connections vs one connection.

I'm very interested in this topic because I've just inherited about 40 8mm videocam tapes to convert for viewing on computer.

So far in my researching I've learned that the analog-to-digital pass through method encodes your old video8 & Hi* tapes (in real time) to a lossy DV (Digital8) format for export which unfortunately discards much of the color information especially for NTSC tapes (4.1.1):

Color Subsampling, or What is 4:4:4 or 4:2:2??
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/color_subsampling_or_what_is_4.html   

Since most of the tapes I have are in excellent condition I think it is worth the extra effort to preserve the colors.  I went ahead and bought one of those tiny USB capture devices (Diamond VC500) and am in the process of setting up a computer for capturing.

And on a related note - if you're in the market for a used digital 8mm cam that has analog to digital pass-through - be aware - some have it and some don't.  And there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of rhyme or reason in terms of some model numbers in a series having it and others not having it, i.e., the DCR-TRV 240 has it, the DCR-TRV 260 may not have it, but the DCR-TRV 280 has it.  Unless you already know for a fact that a particular model number has it, make sure you ask the person selling the cam if it has analog to digital pass-through.

This guy put together an extensive list of Camera's that have firewire ports that will encode and export analog Video8 and Hi8 tapes to DV (Digital8) via the firewire port:

Digitizing Video8 and Hi8 recordings
https://tdb0.wordpress.com/2015/01/31/digitizing-video8-and-hi8-recordings/

These two forums have tons of information:
https://forum.videohelp.com/
http://www.digitalfaq.com/forum/

[guitard]

So far in my researching I've learned that the analog-to-digital pass through method encodes your old video 8 & Hi8 tapes (in real time) to a lossy DV (Digital8) format for export which unfortunately discards much of the color information especially for NTSC tapes (4.1.1):

I don't think the analog-to-digital pass through encodes video - it just captures the raw analog video from the tape and converts it to digital.  And DV is as you said - a lossy format.  But that's all you're going to be able to get off of a regular 8mm tape.  It is possible to artificially bloat it out to uncompressed video after you capture it, but that's like taking an mp3 and saving it as a wave file.  Compressed digital video you capture from an 8mm tape is around 13GBs per hour of video.  Where as uncompressed digital video is much, much larger.  It's really only used in movie studios and it's something like 33GB per minute of video.

So don't worry about losing color in the capture process - because it's already lost.

[Charlie Miller]

So far in my researching I've learned that the analog-to-digital pass through method encodes your old video 8 & Hi8 tapes (in real time) to a lossy DV (Digital8) format for export which unfortunately discards much of the color information especially for NTSC tapes (4.1.1):

I don't think the analog-to-digital pass through encodes video - it just captures the raw analog video from the tape and converts it to digital.  And DV is as you said - a lossy format.  But that's all you're going to be able to get off of a regular 8mm tape.  It is possible to artificially bloat it out to uncompressed video after you capture it, but that's like taking an mp3 and saving it as a wave file.  Compressed digital video you capture from an 8mm tape is around 13GBs per hour of video.  Where as uncompressed digital video is much, much larger.  It's really only used in movie studios and it's something like 33GB per minute of video.

So don't worry about losing color in the capture process - because it's already lost.

Yeah I was wondering about that. Why would adding an analog step in the digital transfer make it better? Thanks for clarifying

[andante]

So far in my researching I've learned that the analog-to-digital pass through method encodes your old video 8 & Hi8 tapes (in real time) to a lossy DV (Digital8) format for export which unfortunately discards much of the color information especially for NTSC tapes (4.1.1):

I don't think the analog-to-digital pass through encodes video - it just captures the raw analog video from the tape and converts it to digital.  And DV is as you said - a lossy format.  But that's all you're going to be able to get off of a regular 8mm tape.  It is possible to artificially bloat it out to uncompressed video after you capture it, but that's like taking an mp3 and saving it as a wave file.  Compressed digital video you capture from an 8mm tape is around 13GBs per hour of video.  Where as uncompressed digital video is much, much larger.  It's really only used in movie studios and it's something like 33GB per minute of video.

So don't worry about losing color in the capture process - because it's already lost.

Yeah I was wondering about that. Why would adding an analog step in the digital transfer make it better? Thanks for clarifying

The colors are "already lost" only if your tapes are Digital8.

OP has analog Video8 & Hi8 tapes.

----------------

Digital8 cameras are the ones with firewire ports because it was a new digital format Sony was pushing and they wanted to make it easy for people to transfer Digital8 video to their computer.

Digital8 = lossy DV encoded video
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital8

Understand that the only thing that ever comes out of that firewire port is lossy DV encoded video (easily verified with VLC codec information), which tosses away 75% of the color for each pixel.

(from previous post)
Color Subsampling, or What is 4:4:4 or 4:2:2??
http://blogs.adobe.com/VideoRoad/2010/06/color_subsampling_or_what_is_4.html   


The OP wants to transfer Video8 and Hi8 tapes which are an older analog format which potentially have more color than the newer lossy Digital8/DV format.

For backward compatiblity some Digital8 cameras can also play older analog Video8 and Hi8 tapes.  But Analog Video8 and Hi8 tapes will lose color (see adobe link above) when you transfer using the firewire port because the Digital8 camera ENCODES the analog Video8 or Hi8 video to lossy DV/Digital8 for transfer.

Luckily, Digital8 cameras also have the familiar analog composite video and S-video connections for connecting the camera to a TV. 

People who want to preserve the colors of their analog Video8 & Hi8 tapes use the S-Video output into a capture card instead of the firewire port.

The analog connections preserve all of the color of analog tapes when capturing.

Interestingly, the color of Digital8 taped video coming out of these older analog connections will be limited by the lossy DV codec since Digital8=DV

[guitard]

Luckily, Digital8 cameras also have the familiar analog composite video and S-video connections for connecting the camera to a TV. 

People who want to preserve the colors of their analog Video8 & Hi8 tapes use the S-Video output into a capture card instead of the firewire port.

The analog connections preserve all of the color of analog tapes when capturing.

I've done it both ways many hundreds of times and don't see any difference at all in the colors.

[dmb2much]

I've transferred a few hundred 8mm/Hi8/Digital 8 cassettes. For any analog tapes that wouldn't playback nice (A/D conversion) through my Sony Digital 8 TRV-230 I would use another 8mm analog camcorder - composite outputs into my standalone JVC deck that performs the analog to DV pass-thru and then firewire to PC (Vegas 13). Never have I experienced any dropped frames with that method.
When doing the pass through method via analog connections, picture quality will depend upon the playback deck.
If you're in the market for a Sony Digital 8 camcorder that performs the A/D conversion, here's a list of models "said" to support that feature:

The models of Sony Digital8 camcorder that are capable of both digital and analog playback include these models:
DCR-TR7000 (1999)
DCR-TRV103 (1998)
DCR-TRV110 (playback of Hi8 and video8 in SP/LP but record and playback of Digital8 in SP only)
DCR-TRV120 (2000)
DCR-TRV230 (2001)
DCR-TRV238
DCR-TRV239 (2002)
DCR-TRV240 (2002)
DCR-TRV310 (1999)
DCR-TRV320 (2000)
DCR-TRV330 (2001)
DCR-TRV340 (2002)
DCR-TRV345
DCR-TRV350 (2003)
DCR-TRV351 (2003)
DCR-TRV355
DCR-TRV356
DCR-TRV410 (1999)
DCR-TRV420 (2000)
DCR-TRV480 (2005)
DCR-TRV510 (1999)
DCR-TRV520 (2000)
DCR-TRV530 (2001)
DCR-TRV620 (2000)
DCR-TRV720 (2000)
DCR-TRV730 (2001)
DCR-TRV740 (2002)
DCR-TRV820 (2000)
DCR-TRV830 (2001)
DCR-TRV838 (2001)
DCR-TRV840 (2002)     

[Justy Gyee]

im sitting on around 300-400 sony digital8 tapes, taped on a sony trv120 and trv320.
any suggestions on a reliable place to pick up a used deck for transfer?
ive seen a few on the ebay, but a lil nervous to drop the dough

just a few from when i tried to keep track of them http://db.etree.org/sciphotoman

[dmb2much]

im sitting on around 300-400 sony digital8 tapes, taped on a sony trv120 and trv320.
any suggestions on a reliable place to pick up a used deck for transfer?
ive seen a few on the ebay, but a lil nervous to drop the dough

You could try Craigslist, Marketplace (Facebook Classifieds) or any other local classified means which would allow yo to look before buying! I'd say the decks average around $100.

[2manyrocks]

Could try a pawn shop but hi-8 is so old that they may not be taking them in much anymore.

[guitard]

Could try a pawn shop but hi-8 is so old that they may not be taking them in much anymore.

If you're replying to Justy Gyee, a hi-8 wouldn't do him any good, as he said he shot his tapes with a digital 8 cam.  He probably wouldn't want a hi-8 cam anyway, because that would require an analog-to-digital conversion box in between the cam and the capture device.  A digital 8 cam with analog-to-digital pass through would make a lot more sense.

[guitard]

im sitting on around 300-400 sony digital8 tapes, taped on a sony trv120 and trv320.
any suggestions on a reliable place to pick up a used deck for transfer?
ive seen a few on the ebay, but a lil nervous to drop the dough

just a few from when i tried to keep track of them http://db.etree.org/sciphotoman

Two years ago I bought a Sony digital-8 cam that had analog-to-digital pass through on eBay for $29.  The main reason for the low price was that the flip-out screen didn't work.  But I figured I didn't need a functioning screen - just a camera with a firewire connection that would playback tapes.  I asked the owner if it functioned otherwise and if the firewire connection was good, and he confirmed that other than the screen, it functioned well.  Worked out really well for me.