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Author Topic: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?  (Read 2513 times)

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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2017, 08:34:01 PM »
I have read on here the Tascam DR-2D internals are on par with Schoeps.   ;D

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2017, 01:05:29 AM »
^ I picked up a DR-2d recently and have to say that I like their internals much better than the M10. There are some quirks with the rig that are frustrating, but for what I do with it... live mic a grand piano, mix in post... it's much better than the Sony.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2017, 09:25:12 AM »
A friend and I sat at the same stage-lip table for a B3 trio a few years back.  We both recorded using DR2d recorders, his made with the recorder laying on the table using the internal mic, mine using four external microphones through a preamp.  I consider that an optimal situation for using the internal mics and his recording came out quite nice, I was quite impressed by it.  Wasn't nearly as good as the recording made with the external microphones, but very good sounding and perfectly acceptable.  They are cardioids and pull a decent stereo image when not placed too far away.
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2017, 12:24:07 PM »
I have read on here the Tascam DR-2D internals are on par with Schoeps.   ;D

LOL, stop causing trouble  ;)
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

Offline DATBoy

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 07:22:18 PM »
I can't speak for the R09's mics. personally, but I have a friend who owns one (not the 09HR model) and I believe his recordings have sound decent with the internals only. However, I can understand you wanted to look at something else as there is newer gear out there that might have better battery life and recording modes than the R09.

My work horse is the Sony PCM M10 (discontinued). Internal mics on the M10 are good, but I don't think they are as good as the R09HR that I also at one point owned. I can't speak much about the Edirol R05 model, as I never owned one and don't know anyone who has recorded internal mics with it only - but I assume it might be comparable to the R09HR. I can't imagine the quality being subpar.

I also own a Olympus LS-P2 as a backup. Not a bad recorder for being small and stealth looking and battery life seems decent for being one AAA battery. Haven't used the internal mics to test them out just yet, but it uses a three microphone system apparently. Was not too impressed with the way it handles my battery box and mics at certain shows. Seemed a little too bassy for my liking. I believe that shouldn't be the case, as I use the same external gear combo on the Sony and it works perfectly. However, it is a different recorder and different brand.

To answer your question - if you are looking for something else, maybe a R05 might be a better option if you don't mind the design of it and not being as compact as the Olympus LS-P2. I would recommend the Sony PCM M10 if you plan on getting a battery box and external mics because the mics aren't as good. If you stealth with the PCM M10, you still got plenty of options on how you can make that happen with that recorder with external gear. Not everything has to be big and bulky to make it sound great (in my opinion). I have already wrote a post previously about what I think is a good enough setup with the M10 when responding about the Roland CS 10EM mics in the mics section, that I've owned for years now and still use.

Offline furburger

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 10:37:48 PM »
re: the OG question.

nothing comes close to the Tascam DR-2D


and I mean nothing.
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Offline ilduclo

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 09:11:53 AM »
The d50 in the yard sale for 200$ is a STEAL, and I've goo ten decent recordings with the internal mics on mine. Great interface, incredible battery life, too :bigsmile:

Offline splumer

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 09:31:00 AM »
A friend and I sat at the same stage-lip table for a B3 trio a few years back.  We both recorded using DR2d recorders, his made with the recorder laying on the table using the internal mic, mine using four external microphones through a preamp.  I consider that an optimal situation for using the internal mics and his recording came out quite nice, I was quite impressed by it.  Wasn't nearly as good as the recording made with the external microphones, but very good sounding and perfectly acceptable.  They are cardioids and pull a decent stereo image when not placed too far away.

Wouldn't that make it into more of a boundary mic?
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Offline nak700s

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 02:43:13 PM »
I can't speak for the R09's mics. personally, but I have a friend who owns one (not the 09HR model) and I believe his recordings have sound decent with the internals only. However, I can understand you wanted to look at something else as there is newer gear out there that might have better battery life and recording modes than the R09.

My work horse is the Sony PCM M10 (discontinued). Internal mics on the M10 are good, but I don't think they are as good as the R09HR that I also at one point owned. I can't speak much about the Edirol R05 model, as I never owned one and don't know anyone who has recorded internal mics with it only - but I assume it might be comparable to the R09HR. I can't imagine the quality being subpar.

I also own a Olympus LS-P2 as a backup. Not a bad recorder for being small and stealth looking and battery life seems decent for being one AAA battery. Haven't used the internal mics to test them out just yet, but it uses a three microphone system apparently. Was not too impressed with the way it handles my battery box and mics at certain shows. Seemed a little too bassy for my liking. I believe that shouldn't be the case, as I use the same external gear combo on the Sony and it works perfectly. However, it is a different recorder and different brand.

To answer your question - if you are looking for something else, maybe a R05 might be a better option if you don't mind the design of it and not being as compact as the Olympus LS-P2. I would recommend the Sony PCM M10 if you plan on getting a battery box and external mics because the mics aren't as good. If you stealth with the PCM M10, you still got plenty of options on how you can make that happen with that recorder with external gear. Not everything has to be big and bulky to make it sound great (in my opinion). I have already wrote a post previously about what I think is a good enough setup with the M10 when responding about the Roland CS 10EM mics in the mics section, that I've owned for years now and still use.

The Sony PCM-M10 is a very good machine for its size and the battery life is ridiculous.  I have 2 of them and used them for most things before I got my 744T.  I still use them for festivals and shows I don't want to use my regular set up at.  They are wonderful and work just fine with a pre and any set of mics, and mics that don't need phantom power.  The internals aren't bad at all, but I don't normally use them for anything other than recording myself for reference.  The one time I was running late for a show I needed to record, I had to place it in front of the band, using the internals, until I was set up and able to use real mics.  It was way better than I expected it to be.  The mics, as you pointed out, are better in the R-09HR than in the M10 and the R-09.  They are more than likely better than the ones in the R5 too.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 03:35:51 PM »
A friend and I sat at the same stage-lip table for a B3 trio a few years back.  We both recorded using DR2d recorders, his made with the recorder laying on the table using the internal mic, mine using four external microphones through a preamp.  I consider that an optimal situation for using the internal mics and his recording came out quite nice, I was quite impressed by it.  Wasn't nearly as good as the recording made with the external microphones, but very good sounding and perfectly acceptable.  They are cardioids and pull a decent stereo image when not placed too far away.

Wouldn't that make it into more of a boundary mic?

Not a boundary mic, but you've astutely noted that the recorder's microphones were being used in a significant boundary-layer-condition.  The internal microphones of the DR2d are not designed specifically with boundary-layer recording in mind, yet since the recorder was placed within the boundary-layer-zone created by the hard table surface, the microphones were indeed working in a boundary-layer-condition throughout a significant portion of the frequency range. 

The difference is describing the design intent of the microphone verses the way they are setup and used.  Any microphone can be used in a boundary-layer-condition.  Some will be more optimized specifically for that by way of their design than others.   Also, consider that pretty much all microphones are working within boundary layer conditions to some degree with respect to the lowest frequencies, since they are typically used at distances from the floor which equate to less than half a wavelength of the lowest frequencies being recorded.  Most would not consider that specifically as a form of boundary-layer recording, yet technically the boundary-layer-condition is in play for that very low frequency range when there is a hard floor under the mics.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2017, 10:04:39 AM »
The d50 in the yard sale for 200$ is a STEAL, and I've goo ten decent recordings with the internal mics on mine. Great interface, incredible battery life, too :bigsmile:

The D50 internal mics sound 1000% better than the R09's. When I first got an R09 I made a test recording of a band with the internals. It sounded awful to me (not because of distortion) and I'm really not that fussy. I immediately sent it to Chris Church to replace the internals with his CA-11 cards. Then it sounded great, but I doubt if he does the mod anymore.

The D50 would be a good choice to improve your recordings if you don't want to use external mics.
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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2017, 03:29:11 PM »
Another vote for the D50. I know a local Seattle taper who uses that deck exclusively for everything. He loves it so much that he snagged a 2nd one I had noticed that Trew Audio had listed in their used department.
$200 is a killer price for that too. Check around. People are trying to fetch upwards of $500 for them  :o
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2017, 09:21:11 AM »
When I first got an R09 I made a test recording of a band with the internals. It sounded awful to me (not because of distortion) and I'm really not that fussy. I immediately sent it to Chris Church to replace the internals with his CA-11 cards. Then it sounded great, but I doubt if he does the mod anymore.

The Mic-skateer mod.
volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values | numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
made easy- >>Improved PAS table<< | made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline nak700s

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Re: Best internal mic unit to replace Edirol R09?
« Reply #28 on: December 18, 2017, 01:45:13 PM »
By the way, I didn't mention this one earlier because it is a little larger than the R-09, R-09HR, M-10, etc.  The Edirol R-26 is an incredible machine that has surprised me on a several occasions as to the quality of recordings with those internals.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821260-REG/Roland_R_26_R_26_6_Channel_Digital_Field.html

This deck also gives a lot of flexibility with other microphones as well as multi recording patterns with the internals (cardioid and Omni).  As far as a deck this size, I don't think there's a better one, IMHO.
Normal: Nakamichi CM-700's >> SD 744T (or) Sony PCM-M10
Normal: Crown CM-700's >> SD 302 >> SD 744T
Stealth: CA-14c >> CA 9200 >> Edirol R-09HR
Ultra stealth: AudioReality >> AudioReality battery box >> Edirol R-09HR
Simple & Sweet!

 

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