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Author Topic: Klamping Kwestion  (Read 1373 times)

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Offline splumer

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Klamping Kwestion
« on: January 26, 2018, 09:48:28 AM »
So I have a show coming up in a couple months (Railroad Earth at the Goodyear Theater in Akron, OH) and the best spot looks the the front of the balcony. There is, course, a rail, so once payday comes around I'm getting the Windtech C-clamp, which others have recommended, but my real question is this: What about shock mounts? I'm worried that vibrations will go through the rail and affect my mics. I'm using Beyerdynamic MCE-86II shotguns, which are very sensitive to vibrations. Is vibration much of a problem with rail-clamping? I've been taping for nearly 20 years and I've never clamped.
"God love you, Dr. Dre, you’ve made some amazing music and some forward steps in the digital era, but that sound is fake. "
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2018, 10:27:21 AM »
Make sure the Windtech C-clamp opens up wide enough for that railing.  I typically use a Superclamp-style clamp for railings which is more substantial and positive-griping.

Vibration through the rail all depends on the situation.  It may or may not be a problem and may or may not be necessary.  Good to shock-mount if you can, but don't sweat it if not and listen to determine if its a problem which you'll need to address moving forward.

If suspending the mics over folks below, be sure to use a safety-cable around the railing to prevent a fall if the clamp slips or the rig collapses.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:29:35 AM by Gutbucket »
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Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2018, 10:35:01 AM »
Quick answer is the Super Clamp like Gut suggested.

If you need more to chew on start here:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=151303.0

Offline Moke

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 10:44:49 AM »
Yes to shockmounts!

In mid-december, I recorded a concert in this tiny concert space that measured likely 12' wide from the stage, and maybe 30' wide across the stage front (the stage was not that wide, just the room width).
Becuase the room was so small, I've never been allowed to record in there, until that mid-december show. For that one, I went in and clamped my binaural head to this rear of hall vertical wooden post.  I knew what the post was, a faux post wooden cover over seismic retro-fitting mods, done to meet cal earthquake standards for masonry walls/buildings.
I figured this post was as solid as anything could ever be. So I clamped to it. I recorded the concert, and it all seemed to have gone off without issue.

In walking back to my truck, I passed a temprary ice skating rink, and knew Sarge would want to go skate.  So, the next morning, she has her skates ready, and I grabbed the binaural head tracks, and we went back to this same area of old town that I'd recorded in; she went skating, and I went to a bench, clamped on the cans, and I hit play.  The binaural recording brought me immediately back to the concert, and I listened to it in its entirety.  Sarge finishes skating, we go home. 
The day plays out, and, after dinner, I put the cans back on, and have another listen.
HOLY CRAP!! WTF?!i!?  In this playback, I was being shaken like a little rag doll, having my head battered around like a punching bag.  It literally felt like a giant had shaken me by my shoulders so hard that I was lefft stupefied. I popped the cans off, and was elft wondering.
So, i went into deeply critical listening mode, and, thought I'd identified the problem as being vibrations from the Interstae-15 freeway, and semi big rigs rooling down the highway, as there is a lot of construction going on in that area of town to reduce traffic bottlenecks. I was satisfied with my conclusion, and I used HPF to roll off the subsonics.
My conclusion was that the binaural recording was sympathetic to the sound of the interstate highway, and being in that environment had a bit of a cancellation thing going on, and I didn't recognize the issue.

Sarge wanted to go back to the skate rink a couple of days later.  So, we went, and, this time, I roamed back into old town district, and walked across the front of the theater, and then beyond it.
OK,... It had been ten years since my last recordings in this theater, and I had no idea that a mere half block from it was a new bridge that crossed the wash that divided town from a large open area that they wanted to develop. So I thought I'd walk over there to see what had been done.  I got out to mid-bridge, and a small toyota-type pickup came across the bridge.  That little pickup truck scared the crap out of me, as I'd experienced the same dread feeling when listening to the binaural recording.  That bridge was shaking the hell out of the downtown historic district at a sub-sonic level.  It shook me so hard that I felt like one of the vibrating table football games where the shaking table moves the players.  I quickly got off the bridge, and, the shaking feeling stopped. So, I went back onto the bridge, and waited for another vehicle; this time a small communter jelly bean thing came rolling over the bridge,... same result; vibrating table football player.
That bridge shook the ground so hard that it travelled up through that seismic retrofitting column, and shook Gude Head, and introduced intense subsonic vibrations into the String Quartet recording.

« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 10:52:36 AM by Moke »
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Offline heathen

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 11:00:05 AM »
Another vote for using shock mounts.  People may bang their hands/feet on railings, intentionally or not.
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 11:42:54 AM »
Another vote for using shock mounts.  People may bang their hands/feet on railings, intentionally or not.

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Offline splumer

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 05:23:16 PM »
How does this look:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824360-REG/impact_cc_106r_super_clamp_with_ratchet.html

But then what do I get to adapt it to my t-bar?
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Offline splumer

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 07:22:33 PM »
I guess it would help if I read that clamping thread.  :-[
"God love you, Dr. Dre, you’ve made some amazing music and some forward steps in the digital era, but that sound is fake. "
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Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 07:27:38 PM »
It would really help if Photobucket hadn't blocked all the photos too...

But then what do I get to adapt it to my t-bar?

Super Clamp should do it...usually there is an extension pole attached to that brass stud and then at opposite end of extension pole adapters to the microphone T-Bar...if it is a 5/8 microphone thread you will need what ever is at the end of the extension bar (1/4 20 or 3/8 16) to the 5/8 microphone thread.

This is my setup...Lowel Mini Pole with photo stand 5/8 stud...Manfrotto adapter...3/8" threaded Stud...Vark T-Bar...Shure Doughnut Shock mounts and stereo bars
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Offline splumer

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 07:37:27 PM »
It would really help if Photobucket hadn't blocked all the photos too...

But then what do I get to adapt it to my t-bar?

Super Clamp should do it...usually there is an extension pole attached to that brass stud and then at opposite end of extension pole adapters to the microphone T-Bar...if it is a 5/8 microphone thread you will need what ever is at the end of the extension bar (1/4 20 or 3/8 16) to the 5/8 microphone thread.

This is my setup...Lowel Mini Pole with photo stand 5/8 stud...Manfrotto adapter...3/8" threaded Stud...Vark T-Bar...Shure Doughnut Shock mounts and stereo bars

Thanks! I started using postimage for linking pictures since PhotoBucket got a bug up its ass. I'm looking at the Impact Super Clamp, then there's a threaded adapter I found that should fit onto it. I thought about getting a Matthellini-type clamp, and clamping my original choice to that, but that seems unnecessarily expensive. Hopefully this will work. I've been reading through that other thread... damn!
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2018, 09:55:52 AM »
Yeah, that's pretty much what I'm ordering on payday. I have the K&M mic bar, though I'm getting a gooseneck rather than a rigid bar for better positioning. I have a few safeties that were part of my severance package from my last job.  ;)  I've used them a couple times before.

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Offline Moke

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2018, 10:04:40 AM »
Keep an open mind with clamps.

top pic: Jorgensen wood clamp, for wider objects, like posts. ENd of clamp bar thru-drilled for 3/8-16 bolt.
bottom pic: Spring clamp fitted with 3/8-16 stanchion and 3/8-16 all-thread extension covered in heat shrink.

and, adding in post,....
this is how I clamped to a clamp (third and fourth pic)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 02:34:34 PM by Moke »
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 08:20:39 AM »
I'm getting a gooseneck rather than a rigid bar for better positioning.

Make sure the one you get is stiff enough for the weight you'll put on it.  I had a pair of spaced omnis on a Manfrotto 154B (which is a pretty substantial piece of hardware) on a gooseneck once and watched them slowly droop further and further as the show went on.  Everything was safety cabled, so I wasn't worried about my mics (or the people under them), but I learned my lesson about cheap goosenecks...

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2018, 01:42:04 AM »
Yes to shock mounts!
 
It shook me so hard that I felt like one of the vibrating table football games where the shaking table moves the players.  I quickly got off the bridge, and, the shaking feeling stopped. So, I went back onto the bridge, and waited for another vehicle; this time a small communter jelly bean thing came rolling over the bridge,... same result; vibrating table football player.

ELECTRIC FOOTBALL?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_Football

Another vote for using shock mounts.  People may bang their hands/feet on railings, intentionally or not.

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2018, 08:54:53 AM »
I'm getting a gooseneck rather than a rigid bar for better positioning.

Make sure the one you get is stiff enough for the weight you'll put on it.  I had a pair of spaced omnis on a Manfrotto 154B (which is a pretty substantial piece of hardware) on a gooseneck once and watched them slowly droop further and further as the show went on.  Everything was safety cabled, so I wasn't worried about my mics (or the people under them), but I learned my lesson about cheap goosenecks...

Yeah, I have one at work I tested it with: not gonna work.
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2018, 09:28:38 AM »
I gave up on those flexible goosenecks.
Many years ago, I bought one of these, and it is a great thing to have when it is needed; but I don't regularly use it.
It is by On-Stage Mic stand products (don't know the official name).
It is the angle adaptor only, not the base.  It is threaded for 5/8-27, but, I've adapted my entire rig to 3/8-16, incluidng adaptor threads for this thing.



It is in two parts.  There is a screw that draws the two sections together. There are gear-like teeth that hold the sections together, firmly, and hold the angle firmly, until you loosen the sections, and cause a change in angles.
They also make a stubby version that doesn't have the longer reach as shown.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 09:39:20 AM by Moke »
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2018, 10:17:47 AM »

I use this Manfrotto Articulated Arm with an Impact Superclamp and I've never encountered a scenario where I couldn't make it work for my mics or my video camera. You can snake it through railings and around corners - use it to go out from a balcony rail and go down or up - it collapses down far enough I can pack it into my bag if needed or slide it into the pouch in the back that holds the waist belt.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Manfrotto_196AB_2_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm.html#!

I have clamped to a railing with the Windtech C Clamp like you mentioned in your original post but I just don't think it's robust enough for anything other than a light active setup only. I wouldn't use it to extend out anywhere over people..
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 12:13:32 PM »

I use this Manfrotto Articulated Arm with an Impact Superclamp and I've never encountered a scenario where I couldn't make it work for my mics or my video camera. You can snake it through railings and around corners - use it to go out from a balcony rail and go down or up - it collapses down far enough I can pack it into my bag if needed or slide it into the pouch in the back that holds the waist belt.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Manfrotto_196AB_2_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm.html#!

I have clamped to a railing with the Windtech C Clamp like you mentioned in your original post but I just don't think it's robust enough for anything other than a light active setup only. I wouldn't use it to extend out anywhere over people..
+T. I am buying this one today along with a super clamp. Thanks!
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Offline aaronji

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2018, 04:45:38 PM »
^ There is also a three section version of that articulated arm.  Of course, I was stupid and bought the (considerably heavier) double armed model.  That was even scarier than the drooping gooseneck; I was taping a MMW show in Rotterdam and the combined weight of the double articulated arm and the 154B on the end caused the Super Clamp to rotate around the circular railing to which it was clamped.  I was really sweating by the end of that show...

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2018, 11:32:58 AM »
clamped to the clamp, again,...
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2018, 12:45:05 PM »
clamped to the clamp, again,...

Moke, next time you're in there how's about swiping that Crystal Gayle poster for me :smash:
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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 01:19:39 PM »

I use this Manfrotto Articulated Arm with an Impact Superclamp and I've never encountered a scenario where I couldn't make it work for my mics or my video camera. You can snake it through railings and around corners - use it to go out from a balcony rail and go down or up - it collapses down far enough I can pack it into my bag if needed or slide it into the pouch in the back that holds the waist belt.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/354218-REG/Manfrotto_196AB_2_196AB_2_Articulated_Arm.html#!

I have clamped to a railing with the Windtech C Clamp like you mentioned in your original post but I just don't think it's robust enough for anything other than a light active setup only. I wouldn't use it to extend out anywhere over people..
+T. I am buying this one today along with a super clamp. Thanks!
I did buy it and a  few other accessories. Already owned the Manfrotto triple bar; and don't plan to use this arm with it, but for example photos I went with it!
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Re: Klamping Kwestion
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 06:10:43 PM »
Those articulating arms seem pretty cool.

I repurposed two SuperClamps to fix a couple vertical company-name display banner/flags, intended to be spiked into the ground, onto our boat-show booth today.  Good to have taper gear at the ready in the back of the car.
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