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Author Topic: B9Audio microphone discussion  (Read 30579 times)

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Offline voltronic

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #180 on: April 29, 2020, 06:56:25 AM »
Hi voltronic, wow, tuning those glasses is some kind of job. I've seem them doing this in backstage, next to a drinking fountain. This male choir is among the best in Taiwan, started as an alumni choir of a high school, and this is 20 years after.
The taste of direct/ambient ratio is always vary according to personal taste, and I do understand this. I tend to record more direct sound for in case they want more ambient, I can add easier than taking out in case they want more direct sound.
That is also the reason why I choose to use my VR Ball later on, for as simple as mixing, direct/reflect ratio can be changed easily, and even during the music, I can alter it without any artifacts in the audio.
Here is another piece by the same composer, in another auditorium:
Only in sleep
https://youtu.be/_5F7_NPdRlg
Recorded by the VR Ball microphone for the choir, a spot mic for the solo soprano.

Another very nice example.  Yes, it is always a judgement call, and you are also at the mercy of the sound of the hall you are recording in.  I get the sense that this hall is rather "dry" sounding on its own.  Your VR Ball looks very interesting, and I appreciate the flexibility it offers.

This is the kind of balance I prefer for this kind of piece, but it's not always possible if the acoustics are not cooperating.  This is quite an unusual performance setup.  I think the close placement of all of the mics for the choir only work to give the right room balance here because of the highly reverberant acoustics of this church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPynMI6Umc
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #181 on: April 29, 2020, 11:09:56 AM »
Yes, the hall is crazy dry and very difficult for the choir. Their voices felts like absorb by a black hole. To improve as much as I can do, I uses 4  cardioid mics closer to them For sound reinforcement as well as fold back monitoring. The monitor speakers are flown so that pointing to the rear side of the cardioid mics.
Your link is the original version of the song? I love it and listen to it several times. Yes , it is because the acoustic space, but I believed it can be better if the mics are flown at a better spot, with variable directional configuration so that a better mixture of direct/reflection can be found.
I don’t like the mic placement, too many time alignment issue if all the mics are going to be mixed.

Another very nice example.  Yes, it is always a judgement call, and you are also at the mercy of the sound of the hall you are recording in.  I get the sense that this hall is rather "dry" sounding on its own.  Your VR Ball looks very interesting, and I appreciate the flexibility it offers.

This is the kind of balance I prefer for this kind of piece, but it's not always possible if the acoustics are not cooperating.  This is quite an unusual performance setup.  I think the close placement of all of the mics for the choir only work to give the right room balance here because of the highly reverberant acoustics of this church.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvPynMI6Umc

Offline voltronic

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #182 on: April 29, 2020, 03:03:48 PM »
Yes, the hall is crazy dry and very difficult for the choir. Their voices felts like absorb by a black hole. To improve as much as I can do, I uses 4  cardioid mics closer to them For sound reinforcement as well as fold back monitoring. The monitor speakers are flown so that pointing to the rear side of the cardioid mics.
Your link is the original version of the song? I love it and listen to it several times. Yes , it is because the acoustic space, but I believed it can be better if the mics are flown at a better spot, with variable directional configuration so that a better mixture of direct/reflection can be found.
I don’t like the mic placement, too many time alignment issue if all the mics are going to be mixed.

Oh, I have performed and recorded in situations like this all too often.  It's extremely frustrating when you can't hear yourself or the rest of the ensemble.  Your solution sounds like it was the best scenario given the space you were working in.  I listened again to your Only in Sleep example, and the monitors come through slightly in a good way to my ears that adds a slight sense of reverb.

Regarding the Trinity College Choir video I linked: I would personally never use that mic placement, but I am fairly sure it was done for video purposes.  My go-to in this situation is a much higher / more distant single pair, and I prefer to move the soloist to a place with proper balance than to add spot mics if that is possible.

It's not the same piece, but it is by Esenvalds using tuned glasses.  This balance I really like, and the recordist is a respected member of the Gearslutz Remote Possibilities forum.  You can see what looks like a Sennheiser MKH mid-side array right in front of the conductor; but I cannot quite make out what the high placed mics are.  Check out the other videos on the channel - they are quite excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ2pBNqiUMM

This one is even better balanced, and I am fairly sure it is just the single high array of mics being used:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtq9TPnb6kc
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I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #183 on: April 29, 2020, 11:13:19 PM »
I was motivated by your conversation to listen to 4 of the selections you each referenced.
First, b9, great vocal representation with your Only in sleep, but I do agree with voltronic about the glasses getting lost in the vocals(listening on mid priced headphones). acoustics in spaces like that are not optimal for recording, however, you did a great job!
Thank you both
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Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #184 on: April 29, 2020, 11:43:44 PM »
I like to sound in a better acoustic auditorium, more friendly to the choir, where they can sing comfortably. But there're always challenge spaces where choir have to adapt. Most of the sound rental company don't know how to handle choir, as their major business is pop music with close up mics, and the result is always disaster.
Your 2 links are excellent, good choir, good space, good recording. The only thing I would like to do, if at all possible, not to use high stand, but find a way to fly the mics. (The thing I don't know is the safety code regulated by the authorities regarding rigging.)

In Taiwan, cathedral is rare. This is one of the tallest. The choir doesn't need any amplification, nor the orchestra. Only soloist and narrators. 8 mics rig is suspended where they are pointing to all direction that can be used for final mix. Spot mics is also everywhere, and total channel count is 38.
This event was live broadcast at the Christmas eve. So video is certainly an important role, I also coordinate video as well, and I don't like my mics blocking my picture, I don't want to sacrifice either.
Grace Baptist Church, Christmas Eve 2019

Oh, I have performed and recorded in situations like this all too often.  It's extremely frustrating when you can't hear yourself or the rest of the ensemble.  Your solution sounds like it was the best scenario given the space you were working in.  I listened again to your Only in Sleep example, and the monitors come through slightly in a good way to my ears that adds a slight sense of reverb.

Regarding the Trinity College Choir video I linked: I would personally never use that mic placement, but I am fairly sure it was done for video purposes.  My go-to in this situation is a much higher / more distant single pair, and I prefer to move the soloist to a place with proper balance than to add spot mics if that is possible.

It's not the same piece, but it is by Esenvalds using tuned glasses.  This balance I really like, and the recordist is a respected member of the Gearslutz Remote Possibilities forum.  You can see what looks like a Sennheiser MKH mid-side array right in front of the conductor; but I cannot quite make out what the high placed mics are.  Check out the other videos on the channel - they are quite excellent.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ2pBNqiUMM

This one is even better balanced, and I am fairly sure it is just the single high array of mics being used:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtq9TPnb6kc

Offline b9audio

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #185 on: April 30, 2020, 12:01:22 AM »
Always a joy to record good music, and to share.

I was motivated by your conversation to listen to 4 of the selections you each referenced.
First, b9, great vocal representation with your Only in sleep, but I do agree with voltronic about the glasses getting lost in the vocals(listening on mid priced headphones). acoustics in spaces like that are not optimal for recording, however, you did a great job!
Thank you both

Offline aaronji

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Re: B9Audio microphone discussion
« Reply #186 on: May 01, 2020, 10:52:53 AM »
Always a joy to record good music, and to share.

 :coolguy:  :cheers:  :clapping: (I don't tend to use a lot of these, but this seems like a good spot!)

 

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