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Author Topic: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.  (Read 2845 times)

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Offline ts

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Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« on: January 11, 2019, 06:10:00 PM »
I’ve basically had the same speakers since 1985 ADS L1290’s. I’ve held onto them this long with the hopes of someday bi amping. That doesn’t look like it’s ever going to happen. Been powering them with a Muisc Hall Maven for 10 or 12 years now. Prior to that it was all Adcom stuff.

My room is basically a remodeled above garage space. It serves as my office/man cave. It’s approx. 17 wide X 25 deep with sloped ceilings.

Here’s what I’m thinking of switching to:

Dynaco ST-70 Series lll. Klipsch Forte lll with a Klipsch SW 311 sub and using my Grace 902 for the pre. I like loud. Tunes will be fed from my PC to the Grace via USB cable and 24 bit converter. Also have a turntable, DVD and CD hooked up to the Grace for some old school playback. DAT and cassette to. :headphones:

Comments and suggestions please. Never had a tube amp.

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Offline heathen

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 07:45:30 PM »
Why do you want to go with a tube amp?
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 08:44:50 PM »
That limited release ST-70 Series 3 is tempting as a siren's song:


                                    Hafler's design executed with the quality it deserves
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 08:47:35 PM by 108Ω »
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 09:19:11 PM »
I’ve basically had the same speakers since 1985 ADS L1290’s. I’ve held onto them this long with the hopes of someday bi amping. That doesn’t look like it’s ever going to happen. Been powering them with a Muisc Hall Maven for 10 or 12 years now. Prior to that it was all Adcom stuff.

My room is basically a remodeled above garage space. It serves as my office/man cave. It’s approx. 17 wide X 25 deep with sloped ceilings.

Here’s what I’m thinking of switching to:

Dynaco ST-70 Series lll. Klipsch Forte lll with a Klipsch SW 311 sub and using my Grace 902 for the pre. I like loud. Tunes will be fed from my PC to the Grace via USB cable and 24 bit converter. Also have a turntable, DVD and CD hooked up to the Grace for some old school playback. DAT and cassette to. :headphones:

Comments and suggestions please. Never had a tube amp.
Is this for pleasure listening or audio editing, or both? I don't think the 1985 Klipsch will be better than the 1985 ADS speakers in terms of accuracy. The Klipsch will probably make bigger bass though, with the 15" speakers.


Tube amps can sound "good" but might not sound as "loud" as solid state (transistor) amps. It might sound "sweet" but may not be as ass-kickingly-solid as you might want.
If you can transition over, try out both sets of speakers on both amps and find the best combo!?
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Offline ts

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 11:01:46 AM »
I’ll first answer heathens question. Maybe I read it somewhere, maybe a salesperson told me, that a tube amp can tame the harshness and fatigue of the Klipsch horns.

My love affair with the Klipsch Heritage series goes back to 1979. A friend of a friend had a barn party and up in the loft were a pair of La Scalas, a low watt tube amp and a turntable. Waiting for a Columbus was cranked over and over. Maybe it was my impressionable age, maybe the party favors, but I never heard anything like it.

During the early 80’s while home from college breaks I would go to our local hi fi shop an audition stuff. Mostly Klipsch Heritage series of course. Wasn’t ready to purchase yet. Still in school. The sales rep at this particular shop, although he loved to crank Althea on La Scalas, would keep telling me never to buy them. Too fatiguing over long listening periods.

Fast forward to 1985. I’m settled in a job, have some money, getting ready to get married. Oops, honey, gotta buy a stereo first. The old hi fi shop was gone but I was able to find another not to far away. Off I go with bank envelope full of cash and ready to buy Klipsch.

Much to my surprise the same guy from the other shop is at this new one I found. Mr. anti Klipsch, but he still loved to crank them. Like a few years before he once again convinced me they were not for casual listening. After a few visits I ended up with ADS and Adcom separates. I was supposed to save money and buy the ADS amps for the 1290’s a few years later and bi amp them but that shop ended up closing and I never did it. I’ve been using the ADS since then. Took a small detour and tried some Von Schweikert VR1’s, but eventually went back to the ADS. Also switched out the Adcom separates for a Music Hall Maven.

Fast forward to today. I think I’m finally ready to go Klipsch. I’ve got a hi fi shop not to far away were I can demo Heritage series Klipsch with both tube and solid state. I mentioned I like loud in the original post, but I also like to listen to vinyl for long periods at low to moderate volumes. Most the of the cranking will happen on my deck in the summer for pool parties. I’d love some La Scalas but my room is just too small. So the question is tube or SS and do I add a sub to some Hersey’s or Fortes or just plunk down for some Cornwall’s and skip the sub.

Sorry for being long winded but I’m pretty set on some Heritage stuff and just wanted anyone who would be kind enough to offer advice to understand that. And Ray, if you read this, I probably would have bought your hot rod cobras if they weren’t blue. :laugh:
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:04:05 AM by ts »
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2019, 11:51:31 AM »
Don't let inadequate designs or poor application mislead you. Well designed and powered tube amps can deliver very solid, tight bass
Many are sweeter in the upper-mids and top end because of "euphonic dominant even-order harmonics", which tubes do well.
They traditionally also soft-clip, which is almost compression-ish, rather than a sharp-cutoff to the production of distortion.

The power behind the wall of sound was McIntosh tubes.
There was bass...   oh, was there bass!
Many Hammond B-3s are tube powered, and when the percussive drawbars are right, those left keys will spank-ass      ;)

It is typically less costly to make a very clean solid-state amp than a very clean tube amp.
Modern designs deliver some gorgeous solid-state sound.
The differences between both are more about design implementation rather than component type topology.

If at all possible, listen before you buy!
It's lots of fun, and reduces "buyer's remorse".





« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 11:59:00 AM by 108Ω »
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2019, 04:19:58 PM »
I’ll first answer heathens question. Maybe I read it somewhere, maybe a salesperson told me, that a tube amp can tame the harshness and fatigue of the Klipsch horns.
OK now I'll come clean and tell you that I am not into Klipsch or Bose and their weird long paths. Rather just have a set of front-loaded speakers without ports for my audio monitoring.
But if I was having a lot of fun loud parties on my porch, then I would seriously consider Klipsch. Just don't hang out right near the horns when they're cranked up!?
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2019, 08:29:29 PM »
I’ll first answer heathens question. Maybe I read it somewhere, maybe a salesperson told me, that a tube amp can tame the harshness and fatigue of the Klipsch horns.
OK now I'll come clean and tell you that I am not into Klipsch or Bose and their weird long paths. Rather just have a set of front-loaded speakers without ports for my audio monitoring.
But if I was having a lot of fun loud parties on my porch, then I would seriously consider Klipsch. Just don't hang out right near the horns when they're cranked up!?

I wouldn't put much stock in "salespersons."  Their opinions often conflict with an opportunity for a commission.  :bigsmile:

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2019, 11:19:40 PM »
Tube amps and klipsch speaker are a good match. Klipsch are very efficient speakers and will play loud with tube amps. My issues with klipsch tend to be the lean bass response....but you are adding a sub..so you are covered. My other issue is they don't have a very wide dispersion sweet spot...but properly set up and sitting in the sweet spot you will be very happy. Tubes will give such an organic feel to the music... Enjoy...
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Offline capnhook

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 06:52:18 AM »
Heresy's and a sub.  I listened without a sub for many years  :facepalm:

Like night and day, thanks raymonda for the good advice.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2019, 07:42:52 AM by capnhook »
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"Don't ever take an all or nothing attitude when it comes to making a difference
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2019, 07:32:04 AM »
A Will Vincent refurbished ST 70 is the way to go if you want a Dynaco. I would also look at a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. You may not need a sub with them.

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2019, 09:29:26 AM »
I find that if you can keep your Cornwalls in your room corners, the bass is nice and accurate. As you move them away from the walls, it can become a little lean.
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2019, 10:34:10 AM »
A Will Vincent refurbished ST 70 is the way to go if you want a Dynaco. I would also look at a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. You may not need a sub with them.

I'm always amazed at how long old electronic components last!
Besides spiffy paintjobs, is there a punch list of what Vincent did in a rebuild?
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2019, 01:17:05 PM »
I like Decware tube amps, had a few.  Now using this one with
my Altec Laguna’s
http://www.decware.com/newsite/SE84CKC.html
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Offline ts

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2019, 01:24:32 PM »
I find that if you can keep your Cornwalls in your room corners, the bass is nice and accurate. As you move them away from the walls, it can become a little lean.

I definitely can’t corner the Cornwall’s in my room. Knee walls and sloped ceilings.
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Offline ts

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2019, 01:45:46 PM »
A Will Vincent refurbished ST 70 is the way to go if you want a Dynaco. I would also look at a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls. You may not need a sub with them.

What’s the cost on a Will Vincent Dynaco? The ST-70 Series 3 above is 1500 new.
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Offline mcfoster

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2019, 07:42:24 PM »
I find that if you can keep your Cornwalls in your room corners, the bass is nice and accurate. As you move them away from the walls, it can become a little lean.

I definitely can’t corner the Cornwall’s in my room. Knee walls and sloped ceilings.

I never liked them mimicking khorns at 45 degrees each, but I did spend a bunch of time with them about 3 feet off of my corners with a bit of toe in. Huge soundstage, but a little lean like I said. With knee walls and all, close is good enough probably, you could easily have too much bass, it has a lot to do with your front end. Watts don't matter with Klipsch, but tone does. I honestly was not satisfied with them until I changed tubes a few times, some just have more bottom than others. As far as placement, you know when you find the best sounding spot in the room at a venue, and it's always the best spot regardless of which band is there? Positioning them is kind of like that in reverse, at least that was my experience. -Marc
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Offline heathen

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2019, 10:54:05 PM »
I don't know anything about tubes, or Klipsch, but I really hope you're able to capture the sound from that barn party.
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Offline ts

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2019, 11:17:13 AM »
I don't know anything about tubes, or Klipsch, but I really hope you're able to capture the sound from that barn party.

The barn is still there. I’m gonna take a picture of it today. Lots of memories. Another guy was so floored by the La Scalas that he built his own pair. 3/4 in. birch plywood for the cabinets. I don’t know where or how he sourced the components, but he did a good job. Very heavy.

The guy that owned the shop where these were purchased delivered them to the barn. Helped with setup. He even stayed for awhile. The name of the shop was called The Stereo House. Owners name was Tom something. Just saw him in local restaurant recently. Nodded and smiled. Many late nights at the Stereo House. ;)
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Offline raymonda

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 04:38:33 PM »
Here is a shot of one.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2019, 04:40:06 PM by raymonda »

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 05:09:25 PM »
Here is a shot of one.

something about that almost military styling that I really dig
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 05:48:16 PM »
Here is a shot of one.

something about that almost military styling that I really dig

Yeah!  Looks kinda' like Yuri Gagarin's amp of choice.
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #23 on: January 15, 2019, 06:20:50 AM »
Here is a shot of one.

Ugh!


Reminds me of smelly old military surplus radios from the 40's

« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 06:03:18 PM by 108Ω »
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2019, 03:19:21 AM »


I'm with 108Ω saying UGH on the styling. Like styling matters. But I like my gear to stack, in case I need to "go vertical!"
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2019, 08:37:22 AM »
So I ended up with Cornwall’s. Right now running them with a 100w integrated solid state and would like to try a tube amp. The intro pricing on the Dynaco 3 is over so that’s not an option. Any recos on an entry level tube amp around $500 new. Doesn’t have to be integrated. I can use my 902 as a pre. Thanks.
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Offline heathen

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2019, 08:42:15 AM »
So I ended up with Cornwall’s. Right now running them with a 100w integrated solid state and would like to try a tube amp. The intro pricing on the Dynaco 3 is over so that’s not an option. Any recos on an entry level tube amp around $500 new. Doesn’t have to be integrated. I can use my 902 as a pre. Thanks.

I don't know much about tube amps other than the fact that there are a lot on the market, particularly at lower prices, where the tube(s) are little more than cosmetic.  Watch out for that.
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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #27 on: June 07, 2019, 09:16:50 AM »
Don't let inadequate designs or poor application mislead you. Well designed and powered tube amps can deliver very solid, tight bass
Many are sweeter in the upper-mids and top end because of "euphonic dominant even-order harmonics", which tubes do well.
They traditionally also soft-clip, which is almost compression-ish, rather than a sharp-cutoff to the production of distortion.

The power behind the wall of sound was McIntosh tubes.
There was bass...   oh, was there bass!
Many Hammond B-3s are tube powered, and when the percussive drawbars are right, those left keys will spank-ass      ;)

It is typically less costly to make a very clean solid-state amp than a very clean tube amp.
Modern designs deliver some gorgeous solid-state sound.
The differences between both are more about design implementation rather than component type topology.

If at all possible, listen before you buy!
It's lots of fun, and reduces "buyer's remorse".


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McIntosh_MC-2300

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2019, 09:19:09 AM »
Wall of sound powered by solid state McIntosh MC 2300 amps.

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2019, 10:14:13 AM »
Tony,

No doubt tube amps sound sweet, but you may find that you will need a bit more power to drive the woofers. The Cornwalls are quite effiecient @ over 100dB, but power is still power. The Dynaco is only 35WPC.

I've wanted to do something similar. I was thinking a good approach would be to find a tube amp with a preamp output in addition to the main out. I could then run the pre out to a solid state amp for the lows, (As a hybrid configuration) and use the main outs for mids/highs only.


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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2019, 11:42:33 AM »
Tony,

No doubt tube amps sound sweet, but you may find that you will need a bit more power to drive the woofers. The Cornwalls are quite effiecient @ over 100dB, but power is still power. The Dynaco is only 35WPC.

I've wanted to do something similar. I was thinking a good approach would be to find a tube amp with a preamp output in addition to the main out. I could then run the pre out to a solid state amp for the lows, (As a hybrid configuration) and use the main outs for mids/highs only.

Thanks for that tidbit. Right now I’m really liking my 100 watt solid state with these Cornwalls. I left my sub connected just because it was there and I really can’t even find it in the room. The bass coming out of the speakers is more than enough.
Beyerdynamic CK930>Sound Devices MixPre 6

Offline mcfoster

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2019, 12:04:55 PM »
Are you digging them as much as you had hoped? I miss them...  but that's ok
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Offline ts

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Re: Time to change up my 2 channel playback.
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2019, 12:02:26 PM »
Are you digging them as much as you had hoped? I miss them...  but that's ok

Absolutely love them. Somewhere in this thread I mentioned an old love affair I had with a pair of La Scalas. Always wanted them but an old friend who worked at the two local hi fi shops talked me out of them. The horn fatigue factor. So I bought into his pitch and went with ADS. Fast forward 35 years and I’m finally where I want to be. Not La Scalas but close enough. Thanks again!
Beyerdynamic CK930>Sound Devices MixPre 6

 

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