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Author Topic: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)  (Read 13678 times)

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Offline dallman

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Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« on: October 24, 2019, 12:38:08 PM »
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Offline fobstl

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 12:53:04 PM »
Ran a friend's brand new A10 for Dylan last week. The thing really is even smaller than I thought it would be. I was right on the center aisle so didn't want to take the recorder out of my pocket to set levels, it was great to be able to start the recording and set levels with the app! Recording turned out great.

Bob Dylan 2019-10-22 Stifel Theater, St. Louis, MO
Schoeps MK41>BabyNBox>A10
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 01:06:57 PM »
Ran a friend's brand new A10 for Dylan last week. The thing really is even smaller than I thought it would be. I was right on the center aisle so didn't want to take the recorder out of my pocket to set levels, it was great to be able to start the recording and set levels with the app! Recording turned out great.

Bob Dylan 2019-10-22 Stifel Theater, St. Louis, MO
Schoeps MK41>BabyNBox>A10
https://we.tl/t-6xMpWvVSzc

^
Thank you!
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Offline Popmarter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2019, 06:14:37 PM »
After 14 gigs with the A10 in combi with the AT853's and Naiant IPA (gain 0/+9/+18) its fair to pin down somw experience.

- If you do stealth, use this.

That's it.

Really,
- No recording unit is smaller.
- For taping: Hook it up. Put it on. Press ok for Audio in. Hit record. Set to hold. Adjust recordlevel with the app.
- The app is very stable to me (Huawei phone)
- Bit hot maybe (with the Naiant pre i can do without extra gain, but this depends on your mics)
- Battery lasts forever

Sure, you can use a ton of options/extra but for recording not that important.

Recorders: SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; Edirol R-09HR; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2019, 01:00:47 AM »

- If you do stealth, use this.

Okay, I'm sold.

Expect an M10 to show up in the Yard Sale soon if all goes well...

Offline adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2019, 06:39:10 AM »

- If you do stealth, use this.

That's it.

Really,
- No recording unit is smaller.
- For taping: Hook it up. Put it on. Press ok for Audio in. Hit record. Set to hold. Adjust recordlevel with the app.
- The app is very stable to me (Huawei phone)
- Bit hot maybe (with the Naiant pre i can do without extra gain, but this depends on your mics)
- Battery lasts forever


I'm a Sony man through and through, and have owned every portable recorder since the PCM-D1 through to the disappointing PCM-D10. But I am yet to buy the PCM-A10 because I own the Roland R-07 and I have pulled some of the best recordings I have made recently.

The Bluetooth on the R-07 is unreliable, but the safety track means I'm not checking levels at all. I just set and forget. For stealth, until 32-bit float becomes available in a portable the safety track is perfect. Also, even though the A10 is tiny it does look like a recorder, whilst the M10 and R-07 could be MP3 players.

It's just a matter of time before I buy the A10 though.
Mics: Sennheiser MKH 8040, Sennheiser MKH 8020, AT BP4025, AT 853 cards, CA CAFS, CA 14 Omnis, CA 11 (Cards + Omnis), Soundman OKM II Classic
Battery Boxes: Sony XLR-1, CA 9200 Preamp, CA Ugly 2 Preamp, CA Ugly BB, Shure FP24
Recorders: Sound Devices MP3, Sony PCM-D100, Sony PCM-D50, Sony PCM-M10, Sony PCM-D10, Roland R-07, Tascam iXJ2

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2019, 11:20:56 PM »
Are the internal batteries easily replaceable?  Has anyone opened on up yet?
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Offline guitard

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2019, 11:25:53 AM »
Quote
Agree about the app; love the fact that it's SO easy to use.  My buddy doesn't see the point why I love it since it's not that hard to pull out an M10 and look but I love the fact that I'm simply "looking at my phone."

This is actually from the previous thread, so I can't directly quote it.

To me, the greatest thing about not having to pull out the recorder to check things - even if it is easy to do - is that you don't take a chance of jostling it around and disturbing the recording.  I keep my recorder in a butt pack that rests on the front of my waist, and never have any problems with digi-glitch from the mics/recorder get jostled.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis
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Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2019, 06:34:15 PM »
This is from the last thread.

Quote from: Humbug
Out of interest, can I ask why you run XY? Do you get good results?

I also run AT831s open, and usually DIN (actually they're a little closer together than DIN, but still facing at 90° to each other).

I ran XY just as an experiment and was only about 4-5' feet away from the artist in a small cramped room. I think the recording came out well.

Attached is a sample here : https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YkJ67V53NTej2Wok5XoRgP3tPkebQ3Om

The artist is Emily Wryn who played at a wine bar called The Station, in San Luis Obispo, California, a renovated mid-century gas station. Show was on September 12, 2019.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 07:16:16 PM by ajmiller »
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2019, 07:04:52 PM »
**Removed any discussion of  >:D taping**


There was discussion somewhere on the board about a small battery power supply that can attach to the A10, I mocked up a photo of an idea I had when I first bought the unit, but since changed my mind and went with a case.

I have these extra 1/4"-20 thread camera screws from my photography days, the plan was to grind the head on the screw down to about 1/3 of what it is now, drill a hole in the battery holster and have it sit flush behind the 9V battery. The power supply is an old Church Audio 9V unit. I may order a second power supply (SP-SPSB-8-MKII) and try it out, however I didn't want to commit to a permanent screw sticking out of my only 9V power supply.

The battery supply on the back of the A10 pretty much doubles the thickness of the A10 body (including the mic guard) and I opted for a case.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2019, 08:07:11 PM by ajmiller »
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline Popmarter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2019, 02:33:33 PM »
Nice one mate!
Recorders: SD MixPre 3 II; Sony A10; Edirol R44; Sony M10; Sony WM-D6; Edirol R-09HR; iRiver IHP-120; Sharp MD-MT20; Sharp MD-MT190
Microphones: Nevaton MC59/S (cards); Milab VM-44 Links (cards), AT853 7.4mod (cards); AT831 (cards); Nakamichi CM300 (all CP's); Soundman OKM II Rock Studios
Preamps: Beyerdynamic MV100; JK Laboratories DVC-X-17b; Naiant IPA; Nakamichi MX-100 modded for 9v battery use

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2019, 05:05:09 PM »
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2019, 10:57:39 PM »
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2019, 01:37:58 AM »
Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread

Thanks I look back for it.
DPA4061's | AKG481's | AT933SC's | FP24 | PIPsqueak | Tinybox | SDMP3 | M10x2

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ilduclo

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2019, 10:26:12 AM »
AJ, what are the mics in your pics? Look like a nice small set, can you show them with the clips you use?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 06:35:23 PM »
i came across the pic on my desktop

https://i.imgur.com/AdirXU7.png

part number 1-756-920-32

also used in MDR-XB950BT headphones.


Nice setup.  Any idea if the internal batteries can be accessed and changed, if necessary, for more longevity of the deck?

yes i tore mine down and posted battery pics and links in first thread

Thanks I look back for it.
team schoeps, dpa, benchmark, and zoom mostly... subject to change without warning

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2019, 04:42:57 AM »
AJ, what are the mics in your pics? Look like a nice small set, can you show them with the clips you use?

ilduclo,
The mics are a pair of AT831's I got from Church Audio that he did some mod on, I believe they are similar to what Sound Professionals sells now as the SP-CMC-2.

The clips are the standard AT8411 lav clip, I opted for these since the AT8419 lav clip is more plastic and figured it would be less durable over time. These clips have lasted me since 2008 and been through a lot.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2019, 09:23:46 AM »
Thanks, nice pics!

Offline scottE

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2019, 01:38:22 PM »
Nice setup and case!

Woud be great to see a smaller batterybox on the market to use with this A10.
Any ideas why they are not using the smaller 12V battery instead of that 9V bulky battery?
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PCM-A10

Offline ol' dirty taper

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #19 on: November 19, 2019, 11:00:58 AM »
Ran a test on my unit last night because I wanted to see how long a pre-amp I just bought would last, figuring the A10 battery would make it until morning, which it did and still had a bar left of battery this morning. It seems when the recording hit 2hrs 04min 16sec (4.29GB) it created a new file.

I have no idea if any real audio is lost, but I was curious if my unit was malfunctioning. This is from the Sony.com helpguide online
Quote
If the file size reaches the maximum limit (4 GB for an LPCM file, and 1 GB for an MP3 file) during recording, the file will be divided due to system limitations.

The Rec remote was running, which Sony claims the battery will last 10 hours while connected, and it made it to 1 bar of life after over 9 hours of use.

Has anyone encountered this, and if so, is the recording seamless? Mine was left in a quiet room - unless some bird chirped or car drove by - the recording is difficult to tell if anything really was lost, however it looks as though it captured everything. Might have to think about stopping and starting a recording between songs at the 2 hr mark for any really long sets.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 11:08:55 AM »
^ It's a limitation of the wav file format. Maximum file size is 4 GiB (= 4.29 GB). I'd be very surprised if the split isn't seamless (it has been on other Sony recorders)...

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2019, 11:27:09 AM »
^ It's a limitation of the wav file format. Maximum file size is 4 GiB (= 4.29 GB). I'd be very surprised if the split isn't seamless (it has been on other Sony recorders)...

Nice to meet another Aaron J, thank you for the clarification, just struck me this morning as odd. Never encountered a wav file size limit before.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #22 on: November 19, 2019, 02:06:53 PM »
Yep, this happens to me all the time on the M10, and the split is seamless.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2019, 04:54:40 PM »
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2019, 06:47:30 PM »
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!

I've been running the A10 with a SanDisk Ultra Plus UHS-1 128GB card with no problems yet. That size card will provide just about 62 hours of 96/24 recording.
Mic : Beyerdynamic MC930 SS / AT831s Pair (CA - HI SPL mod) / Naiant X-X Omni Pair
Pre : Shure FP24 / Sound Devices 302
Dec : Sony PCM-A10 / Sound Devices 702T
Play : Beyerdynamic DT990

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2019, 05:05:13 AM »
Any advice on micro SD cards for the A10? I don’t need more than 32 gb. When I had m10s I ran Sandisk Ultra, but just want to make sure it’s the most stable option.

Thanks!

sandisk extreme pro 32gb is cheap and bulletproof

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2305855#msg2305855

some of the larger cards like lexar stuttered on flac playback on the A10
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Offline TheImplodingVoice

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2019, 02:19:13 PM »
Is it possible to remove the External microphones from this recorder, without causing circuitry problems?
Would be nice to have this deck with a cover in place of the microphones.
Apologies if this has already been discussed.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2019, 02:27:36 PM »
should be possible. they are connected to the board with some reasonably large wires that could be desoldered.You can see the teardown picks in the first thread
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Offline in2blues

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2019, 10:44:55 AM »
Just received my A10 in mail and it looks really nice, so much smaller them my Sony M10, Sony D50 or Zoom H2.
 Have a few questions.
-When using with Church CA 11 Cards and Battery box should I use Mic in or Line in? Why?
-Also wondered how these internal mics. compare to Mics. on a Zoom H2. I have needed to use the Zoom H2 internal mics. a few times when couldn't use Church mics. and the recordings have come out decent.
Hope to test this out this weekend, Thanks for any help

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2019, 06:06:09 PM »
use line in ("audio in"), its pretty sensitive

internal mics arent great, arent awful. would work in a pinch at most shows without overloading
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Offline mixter

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2019, 11:16:48 AM »
I have had my A10 for a little over 2 months. Here are a few observations...

The following paragraph contain content regarding  >:D recording. If this offends your sensibilities then avert your gaze or
simply skip.

I am currently running a set of AT853a cards (darktrain modded) MIC IN (yes mic in) into the A10. I like to stack and have
yet to brickwall with this configuration. Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and
gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me. Security at venues where I live is getting to be more of a
pain (walk thrus + wand, walk thrus + patdown, etc...). Spare me the "Back in my day I got a  Revox into Led Zep at The Forum..."
I just don't want to contend with all that crap. This thing (the A10) is tiny and thwarts just about every walk thru and wand I have
encountered even with my mics.

Regarding the battery capacity...

01. The unit will easily record at least 4 hours at 24/48 with Bluetooth engaged.

02. I haven't run a battery "rundown" test yet because I haven't seen a point in doing so. Someone else, please feel free to do so and post their results.
      I still am curious.

03. The unit can be simply charged using a cellphone external battery charger. Simply extend the USB dongle on the A10 and plug it into the USB port
      (technically a receptacle) of the battery or USB cigarette lighter. Unlike the M10, you can access all record and playback functions while the battery
      is charging.

Regarding the battery longevity...

01. If I have to replace the unit in 3 years or so, so be it. The benefits (size, capacity, built in battery, micro sdhc support, and most importantly the
      sound quality) outweigh this IMHO.

02. I figure it will be quite sometime before this occurs. Hopefully 32bit float will find its way into the lineup by then.

I hope that this helps.

Offline guitard

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2019, 07:34:20 PM »
Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me.

Just in case you don't know this - a 9 volt battery in a battery box will last for probably at least 50 hours.  Maybe (much?) longer.  It lasts so long, that I really don't even try to keep track.  I just periodically check the strength of the battery after several shows.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline meursault

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2019, 09:09:02 AM »
Using a10 line in and m10 line in will give the same quality recording?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2019, 09:14:16 AM »
provided your levels are set correctly, there should be little difference

its not the quietest front end, but for our purposes, you prob wont hear a difference
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Offline dyneq

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2019, 09:18:17 AM »
One major difference is that the M10 will capture down to 20Hz while the A10 will only capture down to 40Hz and then steeply roll off.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2019, 09:40:46 AM »
i wouldnt call -4dB at 20 Hz a "steep rolloff"

(vs -1ish dB for the M10)
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2019, 10:07:51 AM »
Fair point (and thanks again for your measurements)!

The absolute threshold of hearing is frequency dependent. Measurements show that humans are most able to detect sound level differences between 2 kHz and 5 kHz (and we're talking very controlled conditions unlike a typical concert experience).

Add to that the fact that most people don't have playback systems that can reproduce the very lowest frequencies, and it's nothing to get too worked up about. However, I thought it would be useful info for those who do care about it. I also have an M10, and will be using it whenever I use my cardioids so I can get the maximum lower frequency energy captured possible.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2019, 10:22:17 AM »
yes of course directional mics used in far field situations are usually not flat in response down that low anyway. obviously a rolloff of any kind will exaggerate that

i rarely roll off frequencies in post, except when i run omnis



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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2019, 02:01:26 PM »
Would a pre-amp / bb serve me better? Perhaps. But having the extra connectors and gear and battery charging issues to contend with is a drawback for me.

Just in case you don't know this - a 9 volt battery in a battery box will last for probably at least 50 hours.  Maybe (much?) longer.  It lasts so long, that I really don't even try to keep track.  I just periodically check the strength of the battery after several shows.

Thank you. I did/do know that most bb's run for days on a single battery. Pre-amps not nearly as much.

I've had my pre-amp die in the middle of a show because it did not turn off after charging (power switch built into the output jack).

So....

If I don't need to carry a bb/pre, I won't. I have yet to brickwall with this configuration. When I do, I will add the necessary component back to my rig.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2019, 03:24:03 PM »
Thank you for your remarks.
I was thinking of replacing my m10 and ca-9100 preamp with an a10 and ca-ugly 2 to reduce the size of my rig but from what I read I might end up with inferior recording quality. Following your replies I should skip this plan.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2019, 07:51:25 PM »
Thank you for your remarks.
I was thinking of replacing my m10 and ca-9100 preamp with an a10 and ca-ugly 2 to reduce the size of my rig but from what I read I might end up with inferior recording quality. Following your replies I should skip this plan.

Where are you reading that? I'm not sure I've heard/seen anyone give that report.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2019, 02:23:45 PM »
"its not the quietest front end..."
"One major difference is that the M10 will capture down to 20Hz while the A10 will only capture down to 40Hz and then steeply roll off"
I read these comments and I understood that I am losing quality. Maybe I misunderstood, english is not my mother language.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2019, 04:37:37 PM »
none of the handhelds have quiet front end, theyre all about the same. Best as a rule of thumb to not rely on their gain stages if you dont have to

the A10 rolloff comment was an overstatement, read the posts after it.


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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #43 on: December 11, 2019, 05:56:49 PM »
 :hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #44 on: December 11, 2019, 06:46:02 PM »
:hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?

not sure if youd save money, A-10s are around $200. you cant buy M10s anymore of course but i beleive they were around the same cost new

whether a CA 9100 is equivalent to a CA ugly is a question for chris

i have yet to see a single complaint from a person who replaced their M10 with an A10

if you want to see if you can hear a difference there is A10 vs R07 vs tascam dr100mk3 (as well as the 16bit sony ICD-UX560) at the link below.. the tascam has way better specs than any of the handhelds. see if the difference is audible to *your* ears

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2019, 10:16:45 PM »
:hmmm:
Just when I thought I saved some money...
Anyone knows if the electronics, the analog to digital converter, etc are on the same level?

whether a CA 9100 is equivalent to a CA ugly is a question for chris

i have yet to see a single complaint from a person who replaced their M10 with an A10

if you want to see if you can hear a difference there is A10 vs R07 vs tascam dr100mk3 (as well as the 16bit sony ICD-UX560) at the link below.. the tascam has way better specs than any of the handhelds. see if the difference is audible to *your* ears

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192831.0

I can answer the CA question: 9200 is considerably better than the 9100 -- internal noise is much lower. The Ugly 2 is simply a 9200 in a smaller form factor. It's exactly the same as the 9200 otherwise.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2019, 09:10:47 PM »
$190 at BH Photo and Amazon.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #47 on: December 14, 2019, 05:43:01 PM »
Finally realized that what I don’t care for is the A10s roll off. Not my piece of cake, I tend to not like and am not good at serious processing.

I still haven't found a stock deck, whether handheld or XLR, that I'd want to run my $1300 caps into. App control is not worth the sonic tradeoff imo. Thank you Doug.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 11:08:47 AM by MakersMarc »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2019, 06:15:13 PM »
its not that dramatic of a rolloff. most HPFs/rolloffs start at frequencies like 80-120 and are 6-12dB per octave

from my tests: Sony A-10: -0.2 dB@100 HZ, -1.1dB@45Hz, -2.9dB@25Hz, -4.1Hz@20Hz, -6.0dB@15Hz, -9.6dB@10Hz


-1dB at 50 Hz and -3db at 25Hz is not all that aggressive. can easily be eq'd back in
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #49 on: December 16, 2019, 08:18:24 AM »
Finally realized that what I don’t care for is the A10s roll off. Not my piece of cake, I tend to not like and am not good at real processing.

Don’t see the big issue here. Most of the bass that low is “rumble” anyhow. I’m usually rolling that off in Ozone when I’m processing.

Recorded Massive Attack with the A10 and still had far too much bass in the original file. 40Hz with a roll off isn’t truly that noticeable and, for me, isn’t detrimental.

Having the ability to start and stop from my phone as well as monitor levels is a huge plus.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2019, 05:21:05 PM »
Guess what I gave myself for Christmas?  And Santa, in the form of the Australia Post operative, arrived today unexpectedly early.

Almost everyone here has made their first comment something along the lines of "damn, it's tiny!".

Damn, it's tiny.

My recent(ish) recorder purchases include a Zoom H1N and a Zoom F1.  The A10 is clearly significantly smaller than the H1N and is probably smaller in volume than the F1 overall, being thinner and narrower, but a bit longer.  It has a noticably larger screen than either of the Zoom models.

Almost the first thing I tried were the internal mics.  I like the idea of a carry-around sound recorder, so unlike most here, the internal mics interest me.  I tested them first in front of the quite large Tannoy speakers in my 'studio', playing my usual test item, Eric Clapton's 'River of Tears'.  This has a substantial bass line, a steady cymbal beat, and a vocal, and I find it usually reveals shortcomings in audio equipment, or at least it allows for useful comparisons.  I was pleasantly surprised by the result - to my ears (elderly ears I admit), the sound is balanced - no particular vices that I could hear, with very usable range at both top and bottom and no muddy hump in the middle.  Stereo image is waaay better than the M10, whose imaging was always pretty dire as you might expect from closely spaced omni mics.  Just recording passing cars in the street with the A10 gave very satisfactory results, with a clear image of each vehicle passing from one side of the soundstage to the other.  But the supplied windshield didn't seem to be doing a great deal to mitigate the effects of a light wind.   I will have to find a suitable 'dead kitten' to replace it.

I think the innovative (in my experience) menu system works well, but when making settings it would have been useful if the current state of each option could have been displayed at the foot of the screen.  At present you have to select the option to confirm its state.

Really I am finding it difficult to criticise the device, after making allowances for its size and price point.  I guess I'm a bit disappointed that there's no way to play back what you've just recorded, using only the app.  I might well use it with Roland in-ear mic/earbud mics, but in order to check the recording I will have to fish in my pocket to get the recorder out to press "play".  It's a pity that there is no play button in the app interface (unless I can't see it!).

Apart from the A10 living in my jacket pocket, I will also use it in conjunction with cameras such as the DJI Osmo Pocket or the Insta360 One X (the latter happens to be very similar in size to the A10).  These also tend to travel constantly in my jacket.  Yes, it does tend to make me walk lopsided.  Ideally I'd like to mount the A10 to the handle of the camera poles, and that's not hard to do, but it would be ideal if I could change the angle of the A10 to match the angle the camera is shooting at.  I do have an adapter for that purpose but I think it weighs more than the recorder!  A fiddle with my collection of GoPro mounts should do the trick in due course.

Thanks to previous posters for their advice and recommendations, and thanks also for making me $250AU poorer!  And compliments of the season to all.




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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #51 on: December 25, 2019, 11:11:42 AM »
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2019, 11:12:44 AM »
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!

yup, "audio in" is line in :-)
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2019, 01:47:26 PM »
So I pulled the trigger, man this fucker is tiny.

So I know I should read the thread, but if anyone can save me an hour I’d appreciate-“audio in” is live in, right.

Thanks!

yup, "audio in" is line in :-)

Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2019, 03:22:14 PM »
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2019, 06:21:53 AM »
Apologies if this has been posted already but I think I have triggered a limitation on the A10 by copying too many files to a 64Gb memory card - the limitation is as follows -

"Your linear PCM recorder is capable of storing up to 199 files per folder and up to 5,000 folders and files on the built-in memory and the microSD card all together in total. "

Just now I heard some particularly good birdsong happening in the twighlit garden, grabbed the A10, hit record, and got a "file full" message.  And I got bitten on both hands by mosquitos, without getting the recording.  Deleting an unimportant file off the internal memory allowed me to record once back indoors.  I've copied as many mp3 audio files from my rock collection as would fit onto a 64Gb card, and I suspect that's the problem.  Moral - don't.  Stick with (say) your most favourite 4000.  Now all I have to do is decide which they are...

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2019, 08:51:44 AM »
ouch, sorry about your lost recording, thats good to know, though

why cant you put 4000 tracks on a micro SD card and tape another with 4000 more to the back and swap out?
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2019, 05:05:44 PM »
That's what I call lateral thinking! 

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #58 on: December 29, 2019, 04:51:18 PM »
I have run my new A-10 twice now.
First night on stage, with limiter, record level 6, and it kept the peaks down below zero, but flattened the tops of level peaks.


Second night I ran in back of the room without limiters, and again, only monitored with the app due to placement. This time, I ape the levels mostly out of the red (lowered them when they tagged it) but the file has lots of clipped peaks of over.


Are level indications on the app inaccurate? Was this mentioned earlier? Thanks.
 :shrug: 


Interestingly, I can pair the Sony and also use the sound devices bluetooth just by switching apps!

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2019, 04:52:28 PM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #60 on: December 30, 2019, 04:59:17 PM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #61 on: December 30, 2019, 05:41:48 PM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10

Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2019, 08:28:56 PM »
I have run my new A-10 twice now.
First night on stage, with limiter, record level 6, and it kept the peaks down below zero, but flattened the tops of level peaks.


Second night I ran in back of the room without limiters, and again, only monitored with the app due to placement. This time, I ape the levels mostly out of the red (lowered them when they tagged it) but the file has lots of clipped peaks of over.


Are level indications on the app inaccurate? Was this mentioned earlier? Thanks.
 :shrug: 


Interestingly, I can pair the Sony and also use the sound devices bluetooth just by switching apps!

On the second night, did you have your mics run through any kind of mix/pre? I ran into a problem where my preamp overloaded internally, but my levels were fine on the A10 and I wasnt aware until listening later.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2019, 09:07:23 PM »
On the second night, did you have your mics run through any kind of mix/pre? I ran into a problem where my preamp overloaded internally, but my levels were fine on the A10 and I wasnt aware until listening later.
No, I have fancy unreliable gear from other manufacturers all patched in with my good mics as my "A" unit, so this is just my backup with internal mics.
On night three, I noticed that the machine was not rolling for the start of the second band. Either I stopped it on purpose after the first band (I don't think so) or stopped it by accident with the app, or perhaps it crashed? I vote for #2. I was all over my phone and the app has TWO ways to wreck the recording - pause or stop!?!
 :-\
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2019, 11:09:19 PM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10

this. and remember audio in is 0-30 so 10 isnt as low as it seems
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #65 on: December 31, 2019, 08:57:25 AM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!


I'd start with audio in around 10


this. and remember audio in is 0-30 so 10 isnt as low as it seems

for one gnr show, i ran sax @ ~ +10db into the a10 and ended the night with the a10 at like 3. The recording was fine but i was nervous until i played it back and it was fine.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #66 on: December 31, 2019, 10:31:27 AM »
weve come a long way from the lowly d8 that would brickwall below 4/10!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2020, 02:45:23 PM »
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2020, 06:52:37 PM »
not necessarily.its not like there’s not gain with audio-in, it’s just in a different range
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2020, 02:41:23 PM »
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2020, 04:53:03 PM »
Is there a typical set of "settings" when using a preamp like the nBox?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2020, 10:32:19 PM »
any line-level source should start with "audio in" around 10 as mentioned above
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2020, 03:38:59 AM »
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.
Any recollection (or screen shot) of the level setting for that? ... just for reference...
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2020, 11:31:00 AM »
I don't imagine you'll have to use the preamp for amplified music. I haven't, at least.

Running a babynbox in front means I’ll need mic in. No gain from the babynbox
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.


that's surprising. Have to play with it. I'd way prefer going line in.

not sure how often line in will work. Just did a test with the 4v>babynbox>A10 wide open 5' from a loud ass source and I barely crack -12.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2020, 12:39:24 PM by MakersMarc »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2020, 12:44:49 PM »
My A10 just arrived yesterday, so allow me to join the "Wow, is it small!" chorus.

Planning on doing some side-by-side tests with an M10 at a show next week, will report back here on the results.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2020, 07:49:58 PM »
i see it is now measured at avisoft, dont recall seeing it there before. i aggregated some other recorders for reference in this edited screenshot

https://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

« Last Edit: January 04, 2020, 07:55:13 PM by jerryfreak »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2020, 11:17:52 PM »
Has this unit been updated to prevent unauthorized Bluetooth access? I remember reading that anyone with the phone app and in Bluetooth range could load the app and control your unit. Is this still the case?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #77 on: January 06, 2020, 09:29:27 AM »
I ran line in with MK41>BabyNBox for Dylan with good results.
Any recollection (or screen shot) of the level setting for that? ... just for reference...
I started at 12 and ended up at 16. Could have definitely bumped up a few more but was being conservative for the first time out.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2020, 04:59:08 PM »
Has this unit been updated to prevent unauthorized Bluetooth access? I remember reading that anyone with the phone app and in Bluetooth range could load the app and control your unit. Is this still the case?

I don't think so, since you have to put the unit into a pairing mode. If it's not in pairing mode, you aren't connecting...
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2020, 06:05:39 PM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #80 on: January 10, 2020, 10:49:13 AM »
So I’m gonna roll the A10 for the first time, Maceo Parker 😈 4v>nbobs>babynbox>A10. What’s an educated guess for a safety level? I have the record app but still want some sort of benchmark from which to adjust. FOB/DFC/25’ in a 2-3k room.

Thanks!

How'd the show turn out? Can we hear the recording?

tonight.

Wussed out and ran my 620. Have to wait for something less critical.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 09:26:51 PM by MakersMarc »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #81 on: January 11, 2020, 01:00:50 AM »
Chrisedge, you are right, I was going to comment the same thing.


I have had an unusual microSD card read error on the A10 now a couple of times where it says the card needs formatting. Occasionally my desktop computer will freeze up/reset and if the A10 is connected and the card had not been unmounted, the unit will give me a "Format SD Card" screen for a few seconds. I have been able to get around the problem by just reconnecting the A10 to my mac and after the card mounts (computer doesnt have a problem reading it via a USB connection) then ejecting it as normal. Card works fine.

The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #82 on: January 11, 2020, 02:42:21 AM »
The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?

try a 32GB sdhc. my a10 didnt like large cards, and sdhc outperformed sdxc in every test ive tried
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #83 on: January 11, 2020, 05:32:08 AM »
The type of card I am using is a Sandisk Ultra Plus 128 GB V10 MicroSDXC

Anyone else notice this?

try a 32GB sdhc. my a10 didnt like large cards, and sdhc outperformed sdxc in every test ive tried

Good to know, thanks jerryfreak. Going to order one.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #84 on: January 11, 2020, 01:09:13 PM »
sandisk extreme pro 32GB is the best ive tested, in all devices. best $15 ever

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=191314.msg2305855#msg2305855
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2020, 08:44:48 AM »
Used my new A10 for the first time last night, and being able to check and adjust levels via the phone app was even more of a game changer than I expected. Recording came out great, transferring it now.

I was running AT853 cards (modded) into a Church UBB, and started Audio In gain at 12, later raised to 17 during a set break as I could see I had additional headroom. This was for a loud-but-not-super-loud show (just barely not requiring earplugs, though I had them at the ready).

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2020, 10:38:55 AM »
MIC IN or Audio IN?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2020, 05:22:13 PM »
MIC IN or Audio IN?

Audio IN.

Is there a way to switch between MIC IN and Audio IN via the app, btw? I'm not seeing one.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #88 on: January 13, 2020, 01:28:29 AM »
MIC IN or Audio IN?

Audio IN.

Is there a way to switch between MIC IN and Audio IN via the app, btw? I'm not seeing one.

No there isnt unfortunately
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2020, 11:10:17 AM »
open box $129 on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sony-PCM-A10-Portable-Linear-High-Resolution-Audio-Recorder/362881032450?epid=3034153977&hash=item547d652102:g:ywcAAOSwR4peHQBD


new ones with warranty are still $163 tho. might be a better deal. +$30 is not bad deal for full warranty (i try to buy my consumer electronics with the CC that adds a year, but only on 'new' purchases)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-NEW-Sony-PCM-A10-A10-Linear-PCM-Audio-Digital-Recorder-A-Series-US-SHIP-4/303290010551?epid=3034153977&hash=item469d7e4bb7:g:nzUAAOSw8UddiFt1
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #90 on: January 15, 2020, 06:08:04 PM »
I ran the A10 on Sunday for Ramblin' Jack Elliott, with my new U853s (SP-CMC-2) from sound pros, modded with the low sensitivity option, and a 12v power supply, also from sound pros.

I had read this thread a couple times but I guess the mic-in/audio-in discussion hadn't really baked in yet. I ran mic in, and I'm not aware of what the negative effects would be in this case. Don't recall my levels but you'll hear audience clipping: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/12dfJL6KLbaZVeFEe3wjQEOieEAHCFIK3

By default the A10 will time out, if not recording, unless you tell it not to, so that's something else to watch out for if you want to set it and forget it and you won't be recording for a little while. You can override this in settings and force it to not time out.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 06:17:12 PM by vantheman »
AT U853A Cardioids (SP-CMC-4U) > SP-SPSB-10 12V > Sony A10

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #91 on: January 15, 2020, 06:12:08 PM »
maybe you can adjust time out in menu?

fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #92 on: January 15, 2020, 06:16:16 PM »
maybe you can adjust time out in menu?

fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card

Yes, you can, I should have clarified. Make sure you do that if you're like me and you don't want to or can't touch anything after setup.

Edit: now clarified http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=192371.msg2320254#msg2320254
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 06:17:54 PM by vantheman »
AT U853A Cardioids (SP-CMC-4U) > SP-SPSB-10 12V > Sony A10

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #93 on: January 15, 2020, 06:19:11 PM »
fwiw ive been doing some recording tests on my zoom, using the A10 pushing sennheiser cans as an audio source for some mics.

forgot about the test and came back and its still rolling 24 hrs later. battery life is phenomenal
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #94 on: January 17, 2020, 01:30:53 AM »

I posted this in one of the "available for sale" threads discussing current A10 deals...

I was doing a duckduckgo search for my FCC ID, and  I found this great FCC website with exploded photos of the early unit used to seek the patent, and all manner of technical details. Thought you'd be interested... Jerryfreak suggested that I repost it here.
https://fccid.io/AK8PCMA10

Check out the PDF of the "Short-Term Confidential Internal Photo"


We can probably find this for just about any unit sold in the USA?! Especially any of the ones with bluetooth or other wireless connectivity like Wifi..
« Last Edit: January 17, 2020, 01:34:06 AM by morst »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #95 on: January 19, 2020, 03:10:36 AM »
fortunately it boots up almost instantly.

my R07 can be 15+ seconds sometimes to boot up and find the sd card

Mine takes maybe 30 seconds to start up.  I strongly suspect this is due to having a couple of thousand files on the SD card and it may be reindexing them each time.  If I take the card out, the same thing happens, but if I then boot up again (with it now having reindexed itself with no card) it comes on immediately.  Replace the card, boot up, and it takes a while as it rediscovers the card and its contents.  Moral - for serious use, it might be best not to have loads of files on the SD card.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #96 on: January 19, 2020, 05:21:20 PM »
I was using the internal mic the other night at a very loud show and the A10 limiter was on. I adjusted the volume from 3 up to 6, and you can see the steps. Measuring the peaks of each section, I notice that they are spaced almost precisely 1.5 dB apart.
I thought that was interesting.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #97 on: January 29, 2020, 11:31:37 AM »
The sound mic in is very  solid. Ran for a set the other night. A keeper.

Is there any difference between mic in and audio in, other than the gain? (And option for PIP.) I'm assuming it goes through the same electronics, since it's all one input.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #98 on: February 03, 2020, 12:37:04 AM »
Taped my 3rd show with the A10, first 2 went surprisingly well.

Coming from an R09HR.

I like that I can monitor the levels live and it’s small form factor.

Show 3 had an disappointing outcome. I set the level a little aggressively as the previous shows were set at 8, and the output was just about -12dB. I will say with the R09HR I usually had the level at 62 and got maybe up to -4dB and possibly sometimes “clipped” if there was a loud clapper or something near me, but never experienced any issues with the clipped audio in post processing. I just reduced the amp/normalized and all was well in the world.

Anyway, A10, I had very very very minor clips during my 3rd show and they sound HORRIBLE, screeching noise and just terrible. Tried to reduce the amp, normalize, used Declip in Audacity. Can’t get them to sound good. This is so weird, how can such a mild clip sound so bad? I’ve never had this issue with the R09HR. Is the A10 A-D converter that bad at clipped input audio?

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #99 on: February 03, 2020, 01:44:25 AM »
Anyway, A10, I had very very very minor clips during my 3rd show and they sound HORRIBLE, screeching noise and just terrible. Tried to reduce the amp, normalize, used Declip in Audacity. Can’t get them to sound good. This is so weird, how can such a mild clip sound so bad? I’ve never had this issue with the R09HR. Is the A10 A-D converter that bad at clipped input audio?

I had some very minor clipping during night 1 Van Morrison in Vegas Friday. I can share the song with the clipping if you want when I get back home. I spot checked it and it seems OK.

FWIW I wrote to Sound Pros about my setup - their modded AT U853s with 12v battery box. They told me to use line in and not mic in, so that’s what I’ve been doing.

Also, no issues with the walkthroughs at the Colosseum at Caesars Palace. If the A10 can get past that I guess it can get past anything.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #100 on: February 03, 2020, 01:50:07 AM »

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?

Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2020, 02:26:50 AM »

This is rather worrisome. Sure I can reduce the record level on the fly with my phone but who wants to look at it constantly? With the R09HR I set it and forgot it. If it clipped, never had any issues.

Any input?

Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.

I didn’t.

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Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2020, 07:32:44 AM »
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2020, 11:44:48 AM »
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.

Just wanted to run the gamut on this new deck. Been using the R09HR for 10(?) plus years. Was doing 24/96, this is pretty bad if you clip on the A10 and you get noise like that. 24/96 should have no problem with clipping.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #104 on: February 03, 2020, 02:20:49 PM »
Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
I tried the A10 without the limiter and it makes bad sounding peaks. With the limiter 0dB peaks don't sound bad at all.
For the record, I've run my M10 with limiter for about ten years.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #105 on: February 03, 2020, 03:30:10 PM »
If you were running at -12dB, why did you change your setup? If you are running 24 bit, that is a fine shoot to be.

Just wanted to run the gamut on this new deck. Been using the R09HR for 10(?) plus years. Was doing 24/96, this is pretty bad if you clip on the A10 and you get noise like that. 24/96 should have no problem with clipping.
What does running 24/96 have to do with clipping or not? Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #106 on: February 03, 2020, 03:57:22 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution
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Offline alanisrox69

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #107 on: February 03, 2020, 04:10:50 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #108 on: February 03, 2020, 05:17:11 PM »
Running 24 bit let's you run lower without fear of clipping so you can raise the levels without raising the noise too.

to an extent.

the noise floor of the A10 is closer to 16 bit than 24bit in resolution

Do you know if there is a comparison of the A10 vs R09HR noise floor?

they are similar : http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

all those handhelds operate in a similar range, 70-115 dB dynamic range depending on gain. average around 90 95 dB in normal use (16 bit = 96 dB of dynamic range. 24bit =144 dB of dynamic range). so there is a slight advantage of using 24-bit, which can be close to negligible with levels peaking anywhere close to correctly (say above -20dB)
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #109 on: February 06, 2020, 11:15:47 AM »
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2020, 11:20:41 AM by rastasean »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #110 on: February 07, 2020, 11:09:53 AM »
Did you have the limiter turned on? That's what I've always used as a safeguard against clipping (on both M10 and A10), and it's served me well.
I tried the A10 without the limiter and it makes bad sounding peaks. With the limiter 0dB peaks don't sound bad at all.
For the record, I've run my M10 with limiter for about ten years.

I'm hearing the harsh peaks too. Boo.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #111 on: February 07, 2020, 02:06:40 PM »
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #112 on: February 07, 2020, 02:07:23 PM »
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #113 on: February 07, 2020, 02:14:09 PM »
Isn't the solution to run more conservatively rather than push the levels close to 0 dB?

That’s what I’ve been doing ever since I started recording in 24 bit... it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #114 on: February 07, 2020, 03:26:47 PM »
Seems like he beats up on the A10 for noise because of the built-in mics. I don’t see any thoughts on line-in with that device which we know works pretty well
Came across this nearly year-old review of various recorders: Sony D100, A10, M10, D10 and an Olympus recorder.
https://mindful-audio.com/blog/handheld-recorder-review

He's recording nature so having quiet self noise is more important to him than it is for recording live music.
This is his recent youtube video about his technique for recording nature sounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-3BerSX5uQ&feature=youtu.be

edit...
The d10 could be the perfect recorder, if they allowed four channels simultaneously. The less expensive Tascam DR-40x records four channels but probably too noisy for this guy's work.

Right, mic-in line-in seems to work fine for him. I think he was just hoping for mics as quiet as the M10.
While reading over at https://www.reddit.com/r/fieldrecording/, many people seem to admire the D100. Not sure the D100 would be worth 1 1/2 times the price of the D10 without XLR.

Anyway, don't mean to derail this thread from the A10.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #115 on: February 07, 2020, 03:37:19 PM »

it works very well for my purpose, which is recording amplified live music.

Indeed. Other discussion on the topic seems to border on mental gymnastics.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #116 on: February 17, 2020, 06:39:39 PM »
Quick question: Have any other PCM-A10 owners experienced the recorder's Right channel failing?  A friend and I were early adopters of the A10 - I assume we both got the first batch delivered from Japan.  About 4 months ago, my Right channel (Input jack only) began to fail.  First, the right channel gain was slightly lower than the Left, a few days later, much lower, and eventually completely dead.  Both channels worked fine through the internal mics - the problem is limited to the input jack. 

Now, my friend is having the same issue. 

Just wondering if this is a common with the A10?  Anyone else have this happen? 

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #117 on: February 17, 2020, 08:04:02 PM »
mine was a relatively early one as well... no issues so far

if its out of warranty, maybe ask doug if he can repair it?

its a shame that gear this functional for our purposes is manufactured to be disposable
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #118 on: February 17, 2020, 08:22:42 PM »
Clean the plug and jack and report back.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #119 on: February 22, 2020, 10:12:48 PM »
Having a playback error with the A10.

Recorded a 3.5 hour set last night and it split the track at 2hrs or so per usual, however the unit refuses to play the first track. The recording was fine when I plugged into a computer and pulled it from the sd card. Just thought it was worth noting. It would only play 2-4 seconds of the first part then skip to the second half. No idea what would cause this, but it was a bit worrying when I left the venue and wanted to listen to the set on the way home.

In the end the recording was there, just will not play from the unit itself.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2020, 12:26:16 PM »
Clean the plug and jack and report back.

Gonna be lazy here and ask the best method for this... just did another show on the A10 the other night and it has a level difference between left and right as well despite sitting DFC at a stellar venue.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2020, 02:56:41 PM »
Go to the drug store and get some 90+ alcohol and some of those little brush-tipped things used to clean between teeth (the ones just big enough to fit in the plug).  Saturate the brush with the alcohol and swab the inside of the socket while making sure that the open end of the socket is facing down to keep excess alcohol from running into the recorder itself. Use a fresh brush, again with alcohol, to swab the outside of the plug that goes into the socket.  Let dry and try. Please report back.  I am planning to buy an A10 but this could be a deal breaker for me. 

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2020, 10:12:47 PM »
Slightly off topic perhaps, but I want to use my A10 to do vinyl rips too. Having control of the levels on a line in is new to me. Does anyone know what level I would want to do a flat transfer? I want to do minimal to no work in post, and I’d be using the preamp out from my receiver.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2020, 10:15:26 PM by vantheman »
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2020, 11:23:30 PM »
depends on he gain of your receiver. most records should be similar in max level so set your level to whatever it requires to get to -6 to 0 dB, should be the same for other records.

with only about 60dB to work with i dont see records being more than a few dB different in their highest level
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #124 on: February 24, 2020, 01:41:26 AM »
Cool, sounds like good common sense advice. Thanks!
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2020, 09:43:36 PM »
Go to the drug store and get some 90+ alcohol and some of those little brush-tipped things used to clean between teeth (the ones just big enough to fit in the plug).  Saturate the brush with the alcohol and swab the inside of the socket while making sure that the open end of the socket is facing down to keep excess alcohol from running into the recorder itself. Use a fresh brush, again with alcohol, to swab the outside of the plug that goes into the socket.  Let dry and try. Please report back.  I am planning to buy an A10 but this could be a deal breaker for me.

Thanks!  I did a clean on the input jack earlier today before leaving for work.  Will check tomorrow morning to see if it helped.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #126 on: February 25, 2020, 06:11:11 PM »
they are similar : http://www.avisoft.com/recorder-tests/

all those handhelds operate in a similar range, 70-115 dB dynamic range depending on gain. average around 90 95 dB in normal use (16 bit = 96 dB of dynamic range. 24bit =144 dB of dynamic range). so there is a slight advantage of using 24-bit, which can be close to negligible with levels peaking anywhere close to correctly (say above -20dB)

When I was comparing the A10 with my M10 and the same Rode Lavalier attached to both, the A10 seemed to actually be a couple dB cleaner on noise. The avisoft link says it should be the other way around though?

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #127 on: February 25, 2020, 07:43:08 PM »
Checked this morning and it seemed closer with the mics I used Saturday night; need to get my baby nBox to confirm.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #128 on: February 26, 2020, 12:36:54 PM »
Other than ebay, the best pricing on this seems to be $229? Not all that interested in buying off ebay.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #129 on: March 14, 2020, 05:08:11 PM »
Has anyone experienced channel imbalance issues with their A10? At first I thought it might be that my mics weren't properly matched, but I've done a bunch of vinyl rips over the past few days, and the left channel is consistently 2-3db less than the right.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #130 on: March 14, 2020, 05:50:05 PM »
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #131 on: March 14, 2020, 06:13:16 PM »
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?

Nope! That would be too obvious haha. I'll try that and report back.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2020, 07:30:05 PM »
silly question, but have you tried swapping the RCAs on the input side to positively narrow it down to the A10?

I swapped the RCAs, and the left side is still 2-3db launder than the right.
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2020, 07:42:22 PM »
Are you using a 1/8" TRS to stereo RCA adaptoid for the input?

I would try cleaning the jack and plugs. Then try another set of clean plugs. If you get the same behavior, then it's most likely the unit itself.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #134 on: March 19, 2020, 04:33:38 PM »
Quick question: Have any other PCM-A10 owners experienced the recorder's Right channel failing?  A friend and I were early adopters of the A10 - I assume we both got the first batch delivered from Japan.  About 4 months ago, my Right channel (Input jack only) began to fail.  First, the right channel gain was slightly lower than the Left, a few days later, much lower, and eventually completely dead.  Both channels worked fine through the internal mics - the problem is limited to the input jack. 
Just wondering if this is a common with the A10?  Anyone else have this happen?
I just realized that I NEVER even tried the line input on this thing.
My right channel is distinctly lower using multiple cables and a source which my M10 meters as having even levels!!!!!!

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #135 on: March 19, 2020, 04:39:23 PM »
I will try and test mine also. If there's a pattern, hopefully Sony can drop a firmware fix.

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #136 on: March 19, 2020, 05:19:27 PM »
I'm on a chat with a Sony tech right now. Three cables, same result. Left channel hotter via line in on exact same signal.
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Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #137 on: March 19, 2020, 05:38:56 PM »
I just tried mine with some test tones. No problems here, besides the max pickup frequency being 16khz..
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #138 on: March 19, 2020, 05:52:06 PM »
Chat could not fix it, I am contacting Pro Support next
https://na.info.pro.sony/Contact_us.html

Edit: Chat's troubleshooting regimen was as follows

- check that I tried 2 cables. I tried three.
- power cycle recorder- turn it off and on again
- check that EQ is not the cause, cycle it on and off again
- check that Key Change is not the cause, cycle it on and off again
- reset all settings on recorder via menus

How to restart your recorder (power switch!)
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001677672.html
Adjust Equalizer:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001886584.html
Check Key Change:
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684411.html
Reset All Settings So The Recorder will even BEEP at you because I KNOW you turned that off!??
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001669024.html?search=reset
Establishing Bluetooth connection for RecRemote (necessary after full reset!)
https://helpguide.sony.net/icd/pcma10/v1/en2/contents/TP0001684587.html

NOTE! The thing I really learned here is that to re-establish bluetooth connectivity, the iOS device MUST FORGET the information from the "old" PCMA10 in order to pair with the newly reset unit! That was not in Sony's help instructions but I requested to the chat tech that it be added, and also left it as a comment on the help page.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 06:12:24 PM by morst »
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Offline vantheman

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #139 on: March 22, 2020, 04:24:14 PM »
Did it work?
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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #140 on: March 22, 2020, 05:02:48 PM »
Did it work?
Nope. I contacted Pro Support, so I now have a case number, and they say they'll get back to me. I will keep this thread updated as to progress.
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Offline morst

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #141 on: March 24, 2020, 05:38:12 PM »
Did it work?
Nope. I contacted Pro Support, so I now have a case number, and they say they'll get back to me. I will keep this thread updated as to progress.
Spoke to Sean at Sony Pro Support in New Jersey.
We went through a reset, and checked to see if auto levels or mic mode made any difference to the input issue.
No difference, so I'm gonna send it it for a warranty claim. It comes with a year warranty so I should be good.
If anyone else wants to go through support, the phones are shut down right now, but you can email Sony Pro support in Jersey to get going. They will create a case number and get your info, and probably have you send it in if it can't be resolved with normal operation options.
You'll probably end up talking to Sean, he said he's the only one in the shop right now.
https://pro.sony/ue_US/product-resources/knowledge-panel/professional-warranty-information
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #142 on: March 24, 2020, 07:07:31 PM »
since you have an ear see if you can weasel out of them when the next gen of products are coming out. tell em we want a 32-bit recorder with digital input , in the form factor of an icd-ux570 ;)
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Offline vantheman

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Re: Sony PCM-A10 (Part 2)
« Reply #143 on: March 25, 2020, 02:00:59 AM »
Spoke to Sean at Sony Pro Support in New Jersey.
We went through a reset, and checked to see if auto levels or mic mode made any difference to the input issue.
No difference, so I'm gonna send it it for a warranty claim. It comes with a year warranty so I should be good.
If anyone else wants to go through support, the phones are shut down right now, but you can email Sony Pro support in Jersey to get going. They will create a case number and get your info, and probably have you send it in if it can't be resolved with normal operation options.
You'll probably end up talking to Sean, he said he's the only one in the shop right now.
https://pro.sony/ue_US/product-resources/knowledge-panel/professional-warranty-information

Thanks for going through all of that. I’ve been meaning to deal with it but I’ve been insanely busy the past couple weeks.
AT U853A Cardioids (SP-CMC-4U) > SP-SPSB-10 12V > Sony A10

 

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