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Offline aaronji

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #15 on: February 14, 2020, 06:29:03 AM »
^ One of the biggest reasons, for me, is that I have my playback system connected to the NAS. All of the music on the NAS is instantly available for listening. Additionally, I have web access to all of my files and can give someone else access if I choose; the NAS automatically backs up my computer's internal drives at regular user-specified intervals; RAID is great in case a drive crashes; and some of the other software tools are useful (for example the photo application).
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Offline morst

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2020, 04:32:07 PM »
All of the music on the NAS is instantly available for listening.

I agree that NAS is a great solution for hosting files you wish to keep available, but I don't listen to raw masters on the home stereo, only finished stuff. My hard drive collection includes large quantities of "raw" recordings that really don't belong on a household server if I have to pay to keep it spinning.


I am suggesting that folks use NAS for its good point, media server availability, but not to consider it a good place to keep most files. For instance, do you really need your personal tax info available to guests who want to watch a cartoon? If not, then why pay for the juice to spin that drive?


If you are so gracious that you would allow folks to pick from your music collection remotely at any time, I applaud that, but wonder if the leeches would not prefer finished file sets to raw unmixed/unmastered large files?


TRYING TO SAVE Y'ALL SOME MONEY HERE!!!

PS RAID is not a good backup strategy because if you delete the file once, it disappears from the entire array!
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2020, 06:32:39 PM »
I use Synology, which is just a empty box with a RAID card in it.  It has a Cat5 interface, so your router will assign it an IP address then you scan for the device and add it as a drive under "My Computer."

I had two out of four Seagate Enterprise drives go bad out of the box last month. 

I would recommend Western Digital Black. 

I will note that the Synology box is a little slow to wake up when writing to the device--it takes about 30 second to wake up and be recognized.  Other than that, the box works very well. 
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Offline aaronji

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2020, 05:59:00 PM »
All of the music on the NAS is instantly available for listening.

I agree that NAS is a great solution for hosting files you wish to keep available, but I don't listen to raw masters on the home stereo, only finished stuff. My hard drive collection includes large quantities of "raw" recordings that really don't belong on a household server if I have to pay to keep it spinning.

I am suggesting that folks use NAS for its good point, media server availability, but not to consider it a good place to keep most files. For instance, do you really need your personal tax info available to guests who want to watch a cartoon? If not, then why pay for the juice to spin that drive?

If you are so gracious that you would allow folks to pick from your music collection remotely at any time, I applaud that, but wonder if the leeches would not prefer finished file sets to raw unmixed/unmastered large files?

TRYING TO SAVE Y'ALL SOME MONEY HERE!!!

PS RAID is not a good backup strategy because if you delete the file once, it disappears from the entire array!

RAID is for redundancy, in case a drive crashes. The backup system on my NAS is a separate function that copies my computer's internal hard drive at regular (user defined) intervals and keeps multiple (user defined) restore points. Both are valuable to me, although I need to get an off-site option also, in case of fire or flood or whatever. The music is in a special dedicated folder, which only contains playback ready files (although I sometimes drop a raw recording in there temporarily to see how it sounds).

As for letting others into the server, I have complete control over what they can (and cannot) access. Usually, I will set up a single folder containing only the files I want to share, and, even that, only for people I trust. 
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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2020, 03:33:14 PM »

I would recommend Western Digital Black. 


WD Red's are designed for NAS usage.

Blacks are for high performance. I'm not an expert, but I don't think having a super fast drive running over a network is necessary.
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Offline morst

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2020, 07:03:53 PM »
WD Red's are designed for NAS usage. Blacks are for high performance. I'm not an expert, but I don't think having a super fast drive running over a network is necessary.

Speed requirements would depend on usage. If you might have 4 people watching HD movies at the same time from the same NAS then faster might help. If it's just for folks leeching MP3's over a cable modem then it won't matter as much.

Drives designed for use in multiple drive situations like RAID need to give users control over timeout. If a RAID drive times out, the controller might think it's disappeared and try to rebuild it when it comes back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_recovery_control
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2020, 02:31:29 AM »
I'm no expert, but my IT guys, a national company that does medium to large businesses, recommends WD Black for SATA drives in all applications. 

I get that they are double the price of Seagate Enterprise, but like I said, I had two out of four Seagate go DOA out of the box. 

I won't buy those again. 

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Scooter123

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Offline borjam

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #22 on: February 17, 2020, 05:06:05 AM »
Drives designed for use in multiple drive situations like RAID need to give users control over timeout. If a RAID drive times out, the controller might think it's disappeared and try to rebuild it when it comes back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_recovery_control[/font]
Actually you want the drives to return an error when something goes wrong. Desktop class drives tend to retry
operations ad infinitum and it can be a real disaster.

In an storage system with enough redundancy you need a drive that will perform a finite number of retries and signal a failure in
case it's beginning to degrade, so that the storage system can flag it as bad and have you replace it.

If you mask errors in the drives you may end up with a redundant system of broken drives beyond the self healing capacity of your system.
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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2020, 11:28:54 AM »

 >:D  Devil's advocate, but I really do wonder:

Someone please remind me why "Cloud" (some other entity has your data) or "Multiple Drive" solutions (RAID? Redundant array of inexpensive devices? They are all relatively cheap now!) are better than JBOD (Just a Bunch Of Discs.)
Is it that you have trouble organizing your files? *
My goal for backup is at least three copies of anything important, and one of those should be moved "off site" to another location for safety.
WHY NAS?
Do you truly require 100% availability? All files on line at all times? Why? Are you sharing files at all times?
*I have a program on my Mac called DiskTracker that indexes volumes so I can search for things which are not plugged in at the moment.
I just don't understand the "need" for all files to be available at all times, unless you are hosting a server for remote access. If you have told others that they could go to an Internet address and find a file, then I DO understand. I just don't think most of us are doing that!?
What's the one who replies to the Devils advocate? The Promoter of the Cause? LOL     OK, here's my responses to your basic hard drive, NAS vs PC box truths.
1] For me, I initially set up the RAID as Synology offers, but as you say, I do not need it, so next time around I will go JBOD. My buddy has two 1818's and goes JBOD on both, one is the backup to the other.
2] To that end I am not doing proper offsite backup- kindms and I occasionally transfer all our masters to the other's NAS. but that ain't a great backup scheme.
3] I do host my server for remote access, although the number of users is low and the actual number who truly use it is about 2-3 people. It IS handy to retrieve things from your own server while being miles away.
4] I also do use it for live access/playback on our home network though I don't take advantage of PLEX to serve up movies etc.
5] As an IT guy who doesn't play or serve up movies much, I knew it was overkill for me, but it sure has been handy and a solid device. Has saved me multiple times when forgetting files needed for uploading to LMA, or needing to access photos for other people etc
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Offline bobstammers

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2020, 02:10:45 PM »
Thanks for all of the input!

I went with Synology DS918+ c/w 4 x 4TB WD Red using their version of Raid.

Setup was super easy, it seems a little noisier than my WD EX4100 but nothing offensive. I have Transmission running for torrents and Plex as a media server.

After weighing up the options, including HP Microserver I figured I haven't the time to meddle and getting a microserver to run as I want whereas Synology was just plug and go out of the box, other than the hours spent transferring files to it.

Thanks all!
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Offline mattmiller

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
I'm going to be in the market fairly soon for some expanded storage.  I run Plex Server on my main desktop, but other than Plex, uTorrent, and casual web browsing, I really don't use this computer for anything else.  Nevertheless, because I built it a decade ago or more, I beefed it up about 6 months ago with a used mobo/CPU/RAM combo I found on eBay (i7-3770 3.4 GHz), and it now runs Plex beautifully.  I have 4 internal drives in it -- two mirrored 500 GB drives with the OS (Win7 Pro) and other data (torrent downloads, etc.), and two mirrored 8 TB drives that hold all of the media.  I'm down to about 750 GB on these drives and need to think about how to best expand it.  I *may* be able to sneak another pair of drives inside, but I need to check the mobo and power supply.  Even if those would handle two more drives, it would be a cable routing mess, and I'd worry about airflow.

I'm pondering going the NAS route, but the majority of the advice I find online about Plex and NAS is for people looking to RUN their server on the NAS.  I don't see any reason for me to do that since I'm happy with my desktop playing that role.  Additionally, my understanding is that the most powerful NAS devices are limited in their transcoding ability compared to a decent desktop CPU.  So unless someone talks me out of it, I'm literally looking for the most economical NAS without any consideration of its suitability for transcoding video.  I simply need it to hold the media.

As for storage capacity, at this point I'd like to add another 12 TB, so my first thought was to simply buy and shuck two 12-TB Easystores and mirror them just like my current 8-TB drives are mirrored.  I'm open to other RAID configurations to maximize storage space while retaining redundancy -- I have no experience with anything other than RAID 0 and 1.  Is the DS418 overkill for my purpose?  Obviously I wouldn't use all 4 bays immediately, but I'd like to future-proof a bit by having the option to add drives later.

Essentially, I'm looking for the most economical and reliable option for adding storage and redundancy.  Cloud backups aren't an option -- my upload speed is capped at 20 mbps and monthly data cap is 2 TB.
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Offline morst

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2020, 02:43:48 PM »
Why not just lose the mirroring? That right there will double your capacity. You keep everything backed up anyhow, right?
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Offline Sevoflurane

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2020, 06:20:40 PM »
I had a similar thread like this last year about this time. I ultimately went with a RAID setup with 2x10TB drives. I don't have nearly the data that some have. But I have been able to copy all of my hard drives/computers onto one of the drives and copy it over onto the extra 10TB drive. I copy all of this over weekly and whenever I go back to my parent's house. This gets updated. Which is every 6-8 months.

Not an ideal storage for many. But it gets the job done for me and was around $400.
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Offline mattmiller

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2020, 07:24:30 PM »
Why not just lose the mirroring? That right there will double your capacity. You keep everything backed up anyhow, right?

Everything I consider critically important or otherwise irreplaceable, I have safely backed up.  Plex media is just a pain in the ass to replace, and therefore I'm satisfied with the redundancy of the mirrored drives to bail me out of the most likely scenario (single drive failure).  At least for now.
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Offline morst

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Re: NAS or similar storage options
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2020, 11:08:59 PM »
Everything I consider critically important or otherwise irreplaceable, I have safely backed up.  Plex media is just a pain in the ass to replace, and therefore I'm satisfied with the redundancy of the mirrored drives to bail me out of the most likely scenario (single drive failure).  At least for now.
Fair enough. If you can handle the downtime, swapping those 8's for 12 or even 14's (14's were $200 each over xmas in the easystore case!) sounds sensible.
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