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Author Topic: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!  (Read 5293 times)

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Offline shpy

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brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« on: February 22, 2020, 06:17:31 AM »
Hy everybody. I need some answers.
I had a problem before (brickwaling) using  SP-CMC-2-XLR https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-2-XLR directly to OLYMPUS LS-100 recorder. So tapers suggested to buy line-in  -20 db pad. SO i did. Brought  Shure A15AS https://www.shure.com/en-US/products/accessories/a15as.
Yesterday i had event and today im listening record and still in some parts i got distortion.

Settings used:
XLR input with (low sensitivity)
Mic input gain wheel was around 4 from 10. using -25dB PAD
Recording level around -12 db

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jG6zQTmBi3euiePRZGvxN4W2LyNFtfP5/view

Mics where set in the end of club. Its small club.

Best part is that my colleague recorded same concert with https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U mics using battery box with bass rolloff connected directly to camera and sound is way better.
https://youtu.be/es6FdDxfEq8

P.S. Don't afraid of music style.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2020, 08:36:32 AM by shpy »
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Offline kuba e

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2020, 01:47:20 PM »
Shpy, you don't need 4.7k mod when the mics are connected via xlr.  AT831 are designed to be powered via xlr. Mod 4.7k is intended only for mics that are reterminated to 1/8'' (two wires connection instead three wires). Look on your recording in some audio program e.g. Audacity. Are the highest peaks reaching 0db?

Cheesecadet, I don't know how pads are affecting audio signal and noise floor. But I wonder.

Offline hubbachild

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2020, 02:30:59 PM »
Is the phantom power on your deck set to 24v or 48v?  You want to be at 48v. You can use 24v but you won't be able to handle as much SPL as at 48v. Page 84 of the manual, mic power menu. You should not need to use the -20db pad.

Offline shpy

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2020, 03:08:41 PM »
Yes i use 48v. Chris from sound profesionals said  same, that my recorder provide low sensivity setting on xlr so  it should be ok.. but its not.. even with -20 pad.. so what the hell...
sE8 - sE Electronics -> Olympus LS-100

Offline kuba e

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2020, 03:33:09 PM »
You cannot exceed 0db.  Send us some short sample where the distortion occurs. Did you switch on the low sensitivity in the settings of your recorder?

Offline shpy

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2020, 03:54:01 AM »
Chris from Sound professional said I need more Attenuation.  Other members said that  -20db is optimal, lower can be bad for sound. Quality pad i found is max -30dB https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/electronics/a05620466ab0ce16/index.html
But who can say that its will be enough :(

I come to Conclusions, that XLR is bad decision to use for LOUD source.
sE8 - sE Electronics -> Olympus LS-100

Offline kuba e

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2020, 05:47:27 AM »
There is no clipping in the sample. You have headroom of 8.8 db. The pad -20 db is ideal. And you still have some reserve for louder music. You can set recorder's gain wheel to 1 instead 3.

I don't hear a distortion in the sample. Maybe someone more sensitive can hear it. I do not think that the distortion is originating in the microphone or recorder. Maybe the distortion is in the music itself. ;D

Xlr connection is the best. We are using 1/8'' connection only because smaller size and less demands on recorder.

P.S.: If you want more stereo, try a greater angle or spacing between microphones.

Offline shpy

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2020, 06:21:46 AM »
There is no clipping in the sample. You have headroom of 8.8 db. The pad -20 db is ideal. And you still have some reserve for louder music. You can set recorder's gain wheel to 1 instead 3.

I don't hear a distortion in the sample. Maybe someone more sensitive can hear it. I do not think that the distortion is originating in the microphone or recorder. Maybe the distortion is in the music itself. ;D

Xlr connection is the best. We are using 1/8'' connection only because smaller size and less demands on recorder.

P.S.: If you want more stereo, try a greater angle or spacing between microphones.

You dont hear distortion on drums? :O Especially Around 1:53
sE8 - sE Electronics -> Olympus LS-100

Offline Walstib62

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2020, 11:18:13 AM »
The recording is very bass heavy. You could try to engage the bass roll-off on the recorder. You can then boost the bass back up in post if you want to.

Offline shpy

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2020, 11:51:59 AM »
The recording is very bass heavy. You could try to engage the bass roll-off on the recorder. You can then boost the bass back up in post if you want to.

Didint try that..  I have low cut filter 300 and 100 Hz
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Offline EmRR

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2020, 12:16:18 PM »
I don't hear distortion either.  Many times the PA itself will be clipping at shows like this. 

Headroom in the recorder looks fine.  The mics don't appear distortable according to the spec. 

You may be surprised how much level drops if you take bass out, that's where most energy is.  I'd start with 100, 300 would be pretty heavy handed. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2020, 12:45:17 PM »
I don't hear distortion, either, especially not when listening on my headphones with better bass response. You might try just reducing the low end with some EQ, and see if it sounds better to you.

Offline Humbug

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2020, 06:05:46 PM »
Hi,

I tried some mild EQ, using a recent EQ I'd used for another rock show (not as heavy as this):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/spio22uvhgajbh7/VOC_190820-0081_MOD%20Humbug%20EQ.wav?dl=0

Attached is a rough idea of what I used, though I used +12dB
UK based taper: SPCMC2(AT831)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140
AT933(853C)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140/iRiver H108 CF mod/Sony PCM-M10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Humbug66

Offline Humbug

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2020, 06:08:10 PM »
As I've stated on your other thread, CMC2's are absolutely fine for rock/metal, though you need to play with the settings, and/or get used to EQ.
UK based taper: SPCMC2(AT831)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140
AT933(853C)>CA9100 / PIPsqueak>iRiver H140/iRiver H108 CF mod/Sony PCM-M10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Humbug66

Offline shpy

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Re: brickwalling using XLR conections. Help!
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2020, 03:22:23 AM »
Hi,

I tried some mild EQ, using a recent EQ I'd used for another rock show (not as heavy as this):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/spio22uvhgajbh7/VOC_190820-0081_MOD%20Humbug%20EQ.wav?dl=0

Attached is a rough idea of what I used, though I used +12dB

Thanks you all. So Ok i understood that problem is to heavy bass.. I use EQ in post production but usually leave bass or even add some. In this case its to much :)
sE8 - sE Electronics -> Olympus LS-100

 

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