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Author Topic: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?  (Read 1235 times)

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Offline ace5gt

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Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« on: March 15, 2020, 11:18:15 AM »
My Setup:
Sony PCM-M10
CA CAFS mics
CA 9200 Preamp
-12 db cable

Years ago I purchased the above setup and only recorded a few shows with it before life got busy and I stopped going to shows.  I want to now get back into taping, but would prefer to minimize the amount of stuff I need shove down my pants to get past security! ;D  I thought about selling my 9200 preamp and getting an Ugly battery box instead.  Is this a good idea?  Sorry, I never fully understood the tech aspect of these rigs, and whether or not I truly need the volume and gain settings provided by the preamp for rock concerts?

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2020, 11:43:06 AM »
I've run similar with a battery box (substitute the mics to Countryman B3). No issues.

Here's a recording with the B3 > Church BB > M10 rig (with some post processing):

https://youtu.be/rv914EwZaUI

Ironically I almost got tagged by security going into the venue with this rig for that show...but mostly because I was being careless.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ DPA 4080 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 ~ Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
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||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
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||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
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Offline vanark

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2020, 12:28:32 PM »
A couple years ago, I ditched my CA-9100 preamp for a UBB and have been happy with the results. No regrets with the change.

CA-11c > UBB > M-10
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Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
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Offline dyneq

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2020, 01:25:19 PM »
IMO, a preamp may make sense if you record quieter genres of music and/or ambience/nature. The reason is that outboard preamps are generally quieter (less hiss), so during quiet passages you wouldn’t hear the noise as much.

For amplified music, a battery box is ideal for me.

ilduclo

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2020, 01:47:05 PM »
I record lots of quiet shows using dpa 4061’s to a 9v battery box to an m10. Works just great for me.

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2020, 04:28:58 PM »
switching from an M10 to an A10 will save a lot of space
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 05:12:13 PM by jerryfreak »
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Offline BonoBeats

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2020, 04:46:35 PM »
Haven't found the need for a battery box. The "standard sensitivity" for Naiant XX is quite high (25 mV/Pa); not much gain is needed for rock shows.

I've used a 12v batter box from Sound Professionals for quite some time; this thing is tiny: https://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-10

(the mics are rated to 10v, but I have not had any issues pushing them to 12v. Your results may vary.)
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 04:48:38 PM by BonoBeats »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2020, 04:57:47 PM »
My Setup:
Sony PCM-M10
CA CAFS mics
CA 9200 Preamp
-12 db cable

If you need the attenuation cable you probably won't need pre-amp gain and can get away with just a straight battery box / If moving to a battery box, you'll probably want to switch to a non-attenuating cable as well.
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Offline ace5gt

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2020, 05:06:21 PM »
Do I even need a battery box, or can I just run the mics straight into the Line-In of the M10?  If so, what's a good starting point for the gain setting on the M10?

Offline aaronji

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2020, 05:52:04 PM »
^ You need to power the mics, which you can't do with an M10's line-in. You could try mic-in with plug-in power on, but that may not provide sufficient juice to the mics for high SPL situations (I am not sure what the power requirements are for CAFS, though).

Offline Walstib62

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2020, 08:26:04 PM »
^ You need to power the mics, which you can't do with an M10's line-in. You could try mic-in with plug-in power on, but that may not provide sufficient juice to the mics for high SPL situations (I am not sure what the power requirements are for CAFS, though).


M10 only provides 3 volts PIP. Not enough for mic power.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2020, 08:58:03 PM »
What do CAFS require? I couldn't find specs (as is typical for Church)...

Offline BonoBeats

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2020, 09:29:47 PM »
What do CAFS require? I couldn't find specs (as is typical for Church)...

Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Gutbucket as usual brings up good points; if you need a -12db attenuating cable, you don't need preamp gain.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 09:35:49 PM by BonoBeats »
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2020, 09:47:20 PM »
Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Just out of curiosity: where did you find that info? I have never been able to find decent specs for Church mics and, sometimes, even his own posts have been contradictory.

Offline BonoBeats

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2020, 11:37:47 PM »
Ideally, 5-9v. They'll run on 3v PIP, but it affects the handling of high SPLs, raises the noise floor, and possibly increases distortion. Best to run with the box.

Just out of curiosity: where did you find that info? I have never been able to find decent specs for Church mics and, sometimes, even his own posts have been contradictory.

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=148749.0
Now You See Me Telefunken M60 Masters>MixPre6
Now You Don't    Naiant XX>SP-SB10>Roland R05

Offline aaronji

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Re: Ditching Preamp for a battery box?
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2020, 12:17:50 PM »
^ Thanks! Chris should put this information (and other specs) on his website. It would be a lot easier than digging up nearly decade old posts.

 

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