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Author Topic: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...  (Read 9253 times)

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Offline robeti

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Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« on: June 27, 2020, 03:51:56 PM »
Hi,
Im thinking about going the baby nbox > nbobs > mk41 route. If I do so I'll sell my other mics (see signature). What is your advice? Will it be worth it? I really like the subcards and cp3's.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline heathen

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2020, 03:59:33 PM »
Only you can answer whether it's worth it. Will the recordings you make with the new rig make you happy enough to not have the old rig?
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gordon

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2020, 05:57:34 PM »
gefell m21's > nbob!!
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2020, 06:24:57 PM »
if youre looking for a new pair of MK41s i can get you a discount on a matched pair (official US w/ 10 year warranty), PM me
People whose posts I wont see:
capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62

Offline robeti

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 08:42:38 PM »
Only you can answer whether it's worth it. Will the recordings you make with the new rig make you happy enough to not have the old rig?

I don't know. Maybe someone that has (had) at 853 subcards and or nak cm300 cp3's can asnwer that question.
I've always wanted mk41's and now I'm in the position to buy them...
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline robeti

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 08:47:27 PM »
if youre looking for a new pair of MK41s i can get you a discount on a matched pair (official US w/ 10 year warranty), PM me

Thanks. Appreciated. I live in Europe.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline heathen

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2020, 08:51:42 PM »
Only you can answer whether it's worth it. Will the recordings you make with the new rig make you happy enough to not have the old rig?

I don't know. Maybe someone that has (had) at 853 subcards and or nak cm300 cp3's can asnwer that question.
I've always wanted mk41's and now I'm in the position to buy them...

One thing I know is that if you sell those AT853 subcard caps it's very unlikely you could replace them later if you find yourself missing them.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline robeti

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2020, 11:06:14 PM »
You're right. I keep them I think. Great sounding caps.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2020, 12:23:55 AM »
Listen to some supercard/hyper recordings.  They are way more directional than wide/sub cards or omnis.
Make sure you like the directivity.  Tight pattern.
Super/hyper cards don't have the low end "boom" of wide cards or omnis.  Which might be a good thing or you might miss it.  Super/hypers will pick up much less ambient/chatter noise than wide cards or omni.

The 41's are truly are on the other end of the spectrum compared to wide/sub cards or omnis.  If you don't like the tight direction pattern of the 41.. Listen to MK4 (card), MK22 (open card), MK21 (wide card) recordings. 

It all kind of depends on where you usually set-up to record from.

41's are top notch.  Great in almost any situation once you get to know their strengths and weaknesses. 
They can make a bad sounding room sound great on a recording.  They can make a great sounding room sound great on a recording.

Get em..  don't look back..  make great tapes!

 
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Offline daspyknows

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2020, 02:14:05 AM »
If you got the dough you will be happy with the results.  I run that rig often and can provide samples.

Offline Twenty8

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2020, 06:30:08 AM »
gefell m21's > nbob!!

After I get done with 7 days a week, 12 hours a day at work, the above quote is my plan.
 :guitarist: :headphones:
Open ~ Beyerdynamic MC930 and 950 : Line Audio CM3/OM1 :
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Offline ero3030

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2020, 07:47:46 AM »
Hi,
Im thinking about going the baby nbox > nbobs > mk41 route. If I do so I'll sell my other mics (see signature). What is your advice? Will it be worth it? I really like the subcards and cp3's.
Buy what u like.   YOU have to listen to it!  EVERYONE should have different tastes.  Is it worth it?? Again, that's on u.  We all don't drive the same car, or have the speakers.  Its all a matter on taste and what YOU want to spend on things.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 07:50:37 AM by ero3030 »
needin some fishhead music!

" known for f**king up a good weekend on a Thursday nite "

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2020, 09:41:22 PM »
I run that rig as well.  Sometimes. 

The Baby NBox is not a preamp, only a battery box, and if you A-B to a Platinum NBox, you will notice a lack of high ends for the Baby NBox.  However, that can be easily taken care of in post, and where stealthy gate searches might frighten you, the BabyNBox is a nice tool in the toolbox.  The MK41s are great for either distant recording or high crowd noise recording.  I would not use these in a small club or quiet venue, for example. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2020, 10:00:09 PM »
I concur with Scooter.  Having MK4's and MK41's covers most of my needs.  I would like a pair of MK21's or MK22's also but not sure I would use them enough to justify the dough.

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2020, 12:02:24 AM »
The MK41s are great for either distant recording or high crowd noise recording.  I would not use these in a small club or quiet venue, for example.

Why not??
The only times that I've heard issues with 41's have been when they were run on-stage/stage-lip and they didn't pick up the keys/synth/vocals that were all DI.  And in a smallish/medium sized room where reflections were picked up because they were mounted with too wide of an angle. But they can sound great when on-stage when DI's are not involved.  And in small rooms when you learn to avoid the reflections.

In some situations, other capsules might be more proper..  but IMO, 41's can be used most anywhere.   
Part of the learning curve with 41's is to figure out how they can be used best in various situations.
If a person is only going to have one pair of Schoeps, 41's are a great all-around capsule. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:04:15 AM by yug du nord »
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Offline jcable77

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2020, 05:16:12 PM »
I know who you can sell your cp3's to if you happen to take the plunge  ::)
AKG or ADK>Sound Devices

Offline robeti

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2020, 05:43:57 PM »
I keep my Nakamichi things and subcards. Too rare to sell. I will surely regret it at some point and then find myself being in the position of not being able to buy them back because they're impossible to get. No thanks.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #17 on: July 02, 2020, 12:46:38 PM »
The MK41s are great for either distant recording or high crowd noise recording.  I would not use these in a small club or quiet venue, for example.

Why not??
The only times that I've heard issues with 41's have been when they were run on-stage/stage-lip and they didn't pick up the keys/synth/vocals that were all DI.  And in a smallish/medium sized room where reflections were picked up because they were mounted with too wide of an angle. But they can sound great when on-stage when DI's are not involved.  And in small rooms when you learn to avoid the reflections.

In some situations, other capsules might be more proper..  but IMO, 41's can be used most anywhere.   
Part of the learning curve with 41's is to figure out how they can be used best in various situations.
If a person is only going to have one pair of Schoeps, 41's are a great all-around capsule.

In a small club, close in, one would actually want omni microphones.  At least I would.  The MK4s are as close as I can get to that, having stupidly sold my DPAs a few years back.  I would love to pick up a pair of MK21s which would be a perfect choice, but I have never seen them for sale on a used basis. I wonder if they would sound better than the DPAs.   
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 12:53:10 PM by Scooter123 »
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2020, 01:00:53 PM »
Schoeps MK 21 is similar in pattern to DPA 4015.  Both subcardioids.
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Offline checht

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2020, 04:59:11 PM »
This year I switched from MK4's to MK41's and am very happy.

Favorite characteristics: less boomy sound in indoor venues, and better rejection of nearby crowd noise.
According to folks more knowledgable than I, hypers don't function analogously to a zoom lens. They won't make a distant source sound closer, though less crowd noise allows me to focus on the distant source better.

With nBob KCY, and Naiant IPA and PFA I'm set for all recording situations.

There's a pair of nBob actives located in EU in the yardsale:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=194180.0

Favorite capsules ever, prefer to the MK4's and KM84i's.

Have fun!
« Last Edit: July 02, 2020, 05:01:40 PM by checht »
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07

Offline MakersMarc

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2020, 07:50:54 PM »
a big vote for 4v>bnb. I get plenty of high end. I break out the 41v for those rare occasions I'm not close, I'm almost never far from stage,  And if Kangol mounting is your thing, verticals are what you want. Imo.
😈 Mk4v/41v>nbob actives>Baby nbox>Oade warm mod Marantz 620.

Open: 4v/41v>nbobs>Nicky mod Naiant PFA>Oade warm mod 661.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2020, 10:55:29 AM »
I tryed to hang in there with my cards but there
is way too much talking, clapping, whistling, stomping
even in my good sounding small rooms.
Now I pretty much use the 41v’s for most and I
agree that verticals fit the brim perfect!
music>mics>pre>recorder

Online DSatz

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2020, 05:58:34 PM »
Someone in this thread wrote to me privately and asked for my comment. So this isn't a direct reply to anything that's already been posted; it's more like, if you take a step back and ask about cardioid vs. supercardioid, what are the issues?

The thing is, stereo recording goes beyond the behavior of the individual microphones, and gets into how they work together. In that respect, if I were forced to give up one pattern completely, I would sooner give up cardioids than supercardioids.

(a) Most microphones that their manufacturers call either "supercardioid" or "hypercardioid" are neither; they're nearly always something in between those two patterns, with their specific parameters chosen for whatever applications the microphone will be marketed for. Most directional microphones are designed for communications, since that market is many times larger than the market for music recording. When a manufacturer uses the term "hypercardioid" it tends to imply that the microphone was designed for speech pickup, and will sound thin when used for music recording. The exceptions can be counted on the fingers of one hand and you wouldn't even need to use your thumb.

(b) Cardioid is a rather broad pickup pattern. Whoever thought of calling it "unidirectional" owes the world an apology. Cardioids have barely enough directivity to be usable for coincident stereo recording--and when they are used that way, they generally pick up too much from the center; the result is often halfway to being mono, particularly at low frequencies (and particularly if the cardioid is dual-diaphragm, for reasons I won't go into here).

At the side of a cardioid, the response is only 6 dB down from the front. If someone is being loud and obnoxious at 90 degrees from you, they'll still be loud and obnoxious in your cardioid mikes--and since those mikes are almost certainly angled apart to some extent, the disturbing sound will probably be nearly on-axis for one of your mikes. Supercardioids let you get equivalent spaciousness with less of an angle between the capsules (or choose whatever compromise you like).

(c) Supercardioid isn't a very narrow pattern, either, but it's definitely different enough to "earn its keep". And the difference gets multiplied several-fold in stereo--partly because of how our ears and brains work, and partly because the difference is in three dimensions rather than only two. Supercardioids used for stereo recording have much less of the "too strong center" problem, since at any given moment on average, the two channels have more difference between them than you would get with cardioids placed the same way. There's more "mutual exclusivity" between channels for any given angle and distance between them.

(d part 1) All other things being equal, a supercardioid of a given type of construction will generally have a little less low-frequency response overall than a cardioid of similar construction. But it's at least equally important (1) whether the pattern is maintained at low frequencies or "blooms out", and (2) how the microphone responds to standing waves in an enclosed space (which is mainly a concern at mid-low and low frequencies). For the most part a supercardioid (again, "all other things being equal") will keep its pattern better at the lowest frequencies AND will be less influenced by standing waves. Both attributes tend to make the low frequencies sound clearer on a recording.

(d part 2) Paradoxically perhaps, a stereo recording made with supercardioids can often feel more spacious than one made with similarly-placed cardioids, provided that the capsules are angled apart far enough. That may go against some people's expectations, since they reason that a narrower pattern -> less overall pickup of ambient sound. But what our ears and brains respond to is "difference-between-the-channels" information, especially at low frequencies--and cardioids (especially dual-diaphragm cardioids, i.e. all electrically switchable types) are rather bad at delivering that information, while supercardioids are generally better at it.

--best regards
« Last Edit: July 03, 2020, 09:33:46 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline heathen

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2020, 11:29:26 PM »
Is it really fair to compare cards set up in the same configuration as supers though?  Any configuration that brings out the best in one will necessarily not work as well for the other.  One could equally criticize supers for not being ideal when set up in a configuration that best suits cards.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Online DSatz

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #24 on: July 04, 2020, 04:46:38 PM »
heathen, of course, if you choose any type of microphone for a given application on the basis of how you imagine that it works--when it doesn't really work that way--you probably won't get the best possible results. That doesn't mean that the microphone is "bad", or that you can't make good recordings with it. But you're more likely long-term to make good recordings either (a) with more generally appropriate types of microphones (once you've learned how to use them), and/or (b) if you understand your microphones correctly, instead of some other way that you were imagining for whatever reason.

People here really put a lot of their heart and soul into getting the best sound they can. That's exactly what I try to support; I think the people who put in that kind of effort deserve all the satisfaction they can get. Still, when people are trying to decide which type of microphones to buy and/or use, I try to raise awareness and advocate critical thinking so that people don't buy into myths and folklore as much as they unfortunately seem to do (cough cough stereo pairs of shotguns or of large dual-diaphragm microphones cough cough). I get the impression that a lot of people don't really understand the whole phenomenon of directionality or directivity in microphones, particularly where stereo recording is concerned, because they talk so much about what the microphones are "aimed at" or "pointed at", and they don't often seem to consider the sound field at and around the microphone, which is all that a microphone can pick up. People seem to confuse directional microphones with telephoto lenses on cameras, although that analogy is way misleading.

But back to your point, yeah, I was just talking with someone about microphone "shootouts" and how they're great if the microphones are pretty much the same type--but when they're not, there's no way that both microphones be set up optimally for the type of recording that's being done, if they're right next to each other or on top of one another; at least one of the microphones (and maybe both) would be placed rather differently if its own characteristics were being respected. That's pretty similar to the point that you're making, I think.

I mean, sooner or later, everything about microphones that's worth describing in words can also be discovered through listening, or else it's probably not worth describing in the first place. But please see the fortune cookie slip attached, which I really think is true as well.

--best regards
« Last Edit: July 04, 2020, 05:02:55 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline BradleyJY15

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #25 on: July 05, 2020, 09:48:30 AM »
I am going to get a pair of MK41s.  I am leaning towards the 41, not 41V. I already have a pair of MK22 caps, and I love that sound.  But want to add the 41 caps to really have 2 ways to pick up a show.
Schoeps MK22 -> Nbob Actives -> Naiant PFA -> SD MixPre-6ii

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #26 on: July 05, 2020, 08:11:21 PM »
I am also thinking about making the jump up to Schoeps.  MK41s seem to be the all-purpose model, but I'd like to know more about the others.  I looked around for a comparison chart, but couldn't find anything.  Does anyone know of such a chart?

Note - I almost always >:D record audio and video at shows I attend; so I have to balance between a good spot for filming and a good spot for audio.  On a fairly regular basis, I end up in spots that are not all that great for recording audio (near the front row in small venues, for example).

Thanks!
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #27 on: July 05, 2020, 10:48:01 PM »
guitard, what kind of chart do you mean--what kind(s) of information would it show?
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #28 on: July 06, 2020, 07:44:34 AM »
guitard, what kind of chart do you mean--what kind(s) of information would it show?

Sorry - I should have been more clear.  I'm not looking for something official.  I thought maybe somewhere along the line, a taper might have put together a comparison chart that shows which Schoeps mic(s) would be best for a really loud shows, quieter jazz shows, in a big shed, in a small venue, etc.  Basic stuff like that.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #29 on: July 06, 2020, 11:21:59 AM »
Rather than straight cardioids I find I tend to gravitate towards supercardioids or subcardioids. 

When I speculate about why that might be (and with full recognition of what DSatz mentions above about pattern behavior and appropriate stereo pair arrangements), I'm not sure I can really identify a clear reason for this other than recognizing that a straight (-6dB at 90 degrees) cardioid pattern simply represents the obvious mid-way point along the entire 1st order directivity continuum between omni and bidirectional: carioid being the sum of 1/2 omni + 1/2 fig-8 components.  It's just that particular convenient pattern categorization doesn't necessarily align with what is most useful for me in my recording scenarios in which I find myself.  I find I generally either want a more super-ish or more subcardioid-ish pattern than cardioid.   Especially when employing an array of microphones intended to be combined.

In that way, rather than representing any kind of empirically-derived ideal I think of the cardioid pattern as sort of being a somewhat arbitrarily imposed platonic idea.  The "Cardioid compromize".
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2020, 01:00:36 PM »
forOTS arena taping where many people are simply using PAS, is there a large difference in imaging between supers and cards? seems the supers win every time for rejection of reverberant mud
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2020, 03:45:38 PM »
forOTS arena taping where many people are simply using PAS, is there a large difference in imaging between supers and cards? seems the supers win every time for rejection of reverberant mud

I'm highly suspicious of the conventional wisdom around here that hypers/supers avoid significantly more reverberant sound than cards from an OTS distance.  I don't have enough knowledge to state this definitively or with any authority, so I'll just leave it at "I'm highly suspicious."
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2020, 04:19:02 PM »
I'm highly suspicious of the conventional wisdom around here that hypers/supers avoid significantly more reverberant sound than cards from an OTS distance.  I don't have enough knowledge to state this definitively or with any authority, so I'll just leave it at "I'm highly suspicious."

My understanding is that, fundamentally, higher frequencies attenuate more readily than lower frequencies.  In a reverberant scenario (i.e., OTS, distance recording, etc.) where higher frequencies have begun to attenuate, the primary frequencies providing detectable pressure levels are less head-on from the source and such (reverberant) frequencies tend to be mid- or lower-frequency (speaking generally here).  The frequency response charts for super-/hyper-cardioids show a reduction in dB amplitude response to those lower frequencies at respective lateral angles of incidence to the microphone compared to more open patterns (i.e., cardiod, subcardioid, etc.).  With a more open pattern, those lateral angles of incidence could likely be impacted more so (have a greater dB amplitude) by reverberant sounds reflecting all over the room/space.  Therefore, the conclusion is reached that hypers/supers tend to reduce pickup of highly reverberant sound [again, at those lateral angles] that could otherwise produce an undesirable recording from a distance.   

Obviously, there will be recordings that are outliers in our recording 'universe'.  We have heard recordings where hypers and cards were run from the same location with little-to-no difference in overall sound.  However, the fundamentals still apply and have contributed to such 'conventional wisdom'.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2020, 04:21:03 PM by audBall »

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2020, 04:48:53 PM »
I think the biggest factor in that regard is the general difference in low frequency roll-off which is associated with the change of pattern.  Plenty of tapers choose between pickup patterns as a form of surrogate EQ in this regard.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2020, 05:47:12 PM »
With respect to direct/reverberant ratio and distance for different polar patterns, I find "distance factor" to be a useful way to think about this. See the attached tables, one from Shure and one from AT. The reason I attached both is that AT provides a figure for sub-cardioid but not super-cardioid, while Shure includes super-card but not sub-card.

Obviously, there are a bunch of assumptions baked into this; see the text from AT, which describes some of them.

Quote from: AT
A directional microphone’s ability to reject much of the sound that arrives from off-axis provides a greater working distance or “distance factor” than an omni. As Fig. 10 shows, the distance factor (DF) for a cardioid is 1.7 while the omni is 1.0. This means that if an omni is used in a uniformly noisy environment to pick up a desired sound that is 10" away, a cardioid used at 17" from the sound source should provide the same results in terms of the ratio of desired signal to ambient noise. Among other microphone types, the subcardioid should do equally well at 12", the hypercardioid at 20" and the bidirectional at 17".

If the unwanted noise is arriving from one direction only, however, and the microphone can be positioned to place the null of the pattern toward the noise, the directional microphones will offer much greater working distances.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2020, 07:19:08 PM »
One problem is that the distances over which those "distance factors" clearly apply are orders of magnitude smaller than typical taper recording distances.  I suspect distance factor loses applicably as the microphone is moved farther away than the critical distance from the source.  Note the largest distance mentioned in the AT text example has the microphone placed a mere 20 inches away from the source. 

The Ambient Sound Sensitivity measure from the Shure table is perhaps more useful for tapers, but I'm unsure how its calculated.  Average sensitivity outside of the Coverage Angle verses inside of it?

With respect to audience taping, the Rear Rejection Relative to Front measure is near worthless in my opinion partly because I consider it particularly misleading for tapers..  assuming it is a comparison between sensitivity directly on-axis verses sensitivity 180-off axis.  Consider all the "what about rear-lobe sensitivity" discussions around TS in regards to supercardioids verses cardioids and audience noise rejection expectations.  It is average sensitivity across the quadrant or hemisphere which matters in that regard for the most part.  Consider: If you were to point two microphones of equal sensitivity directly away from the stage rather than directly toward it, which will pick up the least amount of direct sound from the stage and PA sound in front: cardioid or supercardioid?

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Offline kuba e

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #36 on: July 07, 2020, 01:28:57 AM »
I imagine it as energy, that there will be slightly less ambient energy in a hypercardiod signal compared to a cardiod. I'm also beginning to understand that the stereo image also has an effect for clearer listening. I listened to the recordings of multiple sources that tapers generously provide here (thank you, it's kind of everyone). I thought I could distinguish between the hypercardiod and the cardiod in the back of the room in a direct comparison. I tried to balance them with eq. It occurred to me that the hypercardiod sounded a little clearer. But it is possible that I was wrong. I will have to do listening test again.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 01:39:22 AM by kuba e »

Offline aaronji

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2020, 08:39:19 AM »
One problem is that the distances over which those "distance factors" clearly apply are orders of magnitude smaller than typical taper recording distances.  I suspect distance factor loses applicably as the microphone is moved farther away than the critical distance from the source.  Note the largest distance mentioned in the AT text example has the microphone placed a mere 20 inches away from the source. 

You are probably right, but I don't understand why distance factor would lose applicability at larger distances. Under the assumption that the ambient/reverberant noise (A/R for short) is uniform, then the denominator of the direct-to-A/R ratio for a given mic is a constant affected only by the (idealized) polar pattern of the microphone irrespective of position in the room. The numerator, the direct sound, is affected only by the distance from the source according to the inverse distance law. Since the denominators are constants, if you double the distance for an omni (from x to 2*x) the numerator will drop by 6 dB. For a card, which originally had the same ratio as the omni at 1.7*x, if you doubled the distance to 3.4*x, you would get the same 6 dB drop in the numerator so the distance factor of 1.7 would still be the same. Why wouldn't this apply for any value of x?

Obviously, there are lots of assumptions (uniform noise, ideal polar pattern, same sensitivity, mic pointed at sound source, etc.), but, to me, the concept is useful to get a sense of the problem. For what it's worth, there are examples on the web which use considerably larger distances (a meter to multiple meters) than in AT's example.     
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2020, 08:54:00 AM »
Speaking only for myself and not trying to put words in Gutbucket's mouth, I think that distance factor quote from AT might lose applicability from taper distances because at the distances we're working with there is likely just as much reverberant sound as direct sound (or at least more reverberant sound than most people think).
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2020, 09:04:06 AM »
^ All that means is that the direct-to-A/R ratio is smaller. Obviously, as tapers, we generally want it to be as high as possible, but I don't understand how the distance factor concept changes if the ratio is one:million, 1:1 (critical distance), or greater than one...
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2020, 09:11:49 AM »
The "angles of minimum sensitivity" (AT chart) still apply regardless of distance or where the microphone is placed in space.  So it seems rational to select a pickup pattern, at distance in a highly reverberant location with low direct:A/R ratio, that minimizes the pickup (in amplitude) of reflected sounds at as many angles to the microphone as possible.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2020, 11:08:59 AM »
One problem is that the distances over which those "distance factors" clearly apply are orders of magnitude smaller than typical taper recording distances.  I suspect distance factor loses applicably as the microphone is moved farther away than the critical distance from the source.  Note the largest distance mentioned in the AT text example has the microphone placed a mere 20 inches away from the source. 

You are probably right, but I don't understand why distance factor would lose applicability at larger distances. Under the assumption that the ambient/reverberant noise (A/R for short) is uniform, then the denominator of the direct-to-A/R ratio for a given mic is a constant affected only by the (idealized) polar pattern of the microphone irrespective of position in the room. The numerator, the direct sound, is affected only by the distance from the source according to the inverse distance law. Since the denominators are constants, if you double the distance for an omni (from x to 2*x) the numerator will drop by 6 dB. For a card, which originally had the same ratio as the omni at 1.7*x, if you doubled the distance to 3.4*x, you would get the same 6 dB drop in the numerator so the distance factor of 1.7 would still be the same. Why wouldn't this apply for any value of x?   

The measured SPL at any position in the room is the sum of all the direct and revereberant arriving sound, however the balance between the two is not constant and instead changes with distance. The level of direct-arriving sound decreases according to the inverse square law as distance from the source is increased, while the level of the reverberant-arriving sound remains more or less constant.   At distances less than the critical-distance (aka radius-of-reverberation) the direct-arriving sound dominates. Farther away than the critical distance, reverberant-sound dominates.  Moving farther from the source, the direct-sound becomes increasingly attenuated compared to the reverberant-sound, until the direct-sound component becomes masked by the reverberant-sound rendering it essentially inaudible.

Consider an hypothetical super-directional microphone which is able to completely reject pickup from every direction other than a super narrow on-axis window, like a laser-beam.  All of the direct sound arrives along one axis, so we point this super-directional microphone directly at the source to maximize "pickup as much direct sound as possible".  So far so good.  But recall that the reverberant sound is arriving from all directions equally, including the directly-on-axis direction.  As the microphone is moved increasingly farther away, the balance of sound at the microphone position becomes increasingly dominated by reverberant-sound, despite our super-directional microphone that is able to reject sound arriving from all directions other than directly on-axis.



By being less sensitive to sound arriving from off-axis, a directional microphone provides an increased proportion of direct-arriving sound, but is only able to do so until the pickup of reverberant-sound which is also arriving inside the microphone's on-axis coverage angle begins to dominate over the pickup of direct-arriving sound.  That's clearly what happens at distances closer than the critical-distance, and it continues to work beyond the critical distance to a lesser and lesser degree until eventually even the signal from our imaginary super-directional microphone becomes dominated by on-axis reverberant sound.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 11:50:17 AM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2020, 11:18:15 AM »
Exactly what Gutbucket said!

I'll also add that I suspect the distances most of us record from (other than on stage or stage lip, obviously) lie very close to, or past, that critical distance.  Of course I can't say this for certain, because measuring that is way way beyond my very limited knowledge.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2020, 11:36:15 AM »
The SPL at any position in the room is a combined measurement of the direct and revereberant arriving sound, however the balance between the two is not constant.  It changes with increasing distance. The level of direct-arriving sound decreases according to the inverse square law as the distance from the source is increased, while the level of the reverberant-arriving sound remains more or less constant.   At distances less than the critical-distance (aka radius-of-reverberation) the direct-arriving sound dominates. Moving farther away than the critical distance, the direct-sound becomes increasingly attenuated as compared to the reverberant-sound.

Right, that is exactly what I said. The reverberant is assumed to be constant and the direct decreases linearly with distance (like in the picture; I think that is "inverse distance", not "inverse square", though).

Consider an hypothetical super-directional microphone which is able to completely reject pickup from every direction other than a super narrow on-axis window, like a laser-beam.  All of the direct sound arrives along one axis, so we point this super-directional microphone directly at the source to maximize "pickup as much direct sound as possible".  So far so good.  But recall that the reverberant sound is arriving from all directions equally, including the directly-on-axis direction.  As move increasingly farther away, the balance of sound at the microphone position becomes increasingly dominated by reverberant-sound, despite our super-directional microphone that is able to reject sound arriving from every direction except on-axis.

By being less sensitive to sound arriving from off-axis, a directional microphone provides an increased proportion of direct-sound, but is only able to do so until the pickup of reverberant-sound which is also arriving inside the microphone's on-axis coverage angle begins to dominates over the pickup of direct-arriving sound.  That's clearly what happens at distances closer than the critical-distance, and it continues to work beyond the critical distance only to a lesser and lesser degree until eventually even the signal from our imaginary super-directional microphone becomes dominated by on-axis reverberant sound.

Obviously, there is a distance at which the proportion of direct sound becomes too small to be of value to the recordist (whether that is within or outside of the critical distance). Wouldn't that distance be 1.7 times further for a card than an omni?
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2020, 12:41:49 PM »
Obviously, there is a distance at which the proportion of direct sound becomes too small to be of value to the recordist (whether that is within or outside of the critical distance). Wouldn't that distance be 1.7 times further for a card than an omni?

Up to the point where the direct sound becomes swamped by the reverberant sound, yes.

The graph I linked above doesn't show a plot line for combined direct and reverberant sound integrated together at microphone position.  Below is another.  Check the red line labeled mixed overall sound.  Once the direct-sound sinks more than a few dB below that line (not sure how much), it becomes dominated by reverberant sound regardless of pickup pattern.  The flattening of the slope of the red line with increased distance is directly related to the loss of the ability of distance-factor to compensate at increasing distances.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2020, 11:54:35 AM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2020, 12:50:37 PM »
I had Nak’s previously (cm1, cm3, cm4), have owned/used a variety of schoeps caps. I primarily use the mk41’s and have use them everywhere from arenas to onstage in tiny clubs. They sound great in all applications, even where they “shouldn’t”, e.g., onstage. I loved the naks and still do but the schoeps are a big upgrade in sound quality, balance, smoothness. Go for it.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2020, 01:00:17 PM »
Obviously, there is a distance at which the proportion of direct sound becomes too small to be of value to the recordist (whether that is within or outside of the critical distance). Wouldn't that distance be 1.7 times further for a card than an omni?

Up to the point where the direct sound becomes swamped by the reverberant sound, yes.

The "distance at which the proportion of direct sound becomes too small to be of value" is more-or-less the same as "the point where the direct sound becomes swamped by the reverberant sound". Which, I think, leads to the conclusion that the distance factor "rule of thumb" is useful to consider at reasonable taping distances, where the level of the direct signal is sufficiently above the ambient/reverberant sound.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2020, 01:52:47 PM »
.. the distance factor "rule of thumb" is useful to consider at reasonable taping distances, where the level of the direct signal is sufficiently above the ambient/reverberant sound.

What is a reasonable taping distance?  The answer is going to vary wildly depending on who you ask and what kind of recording you are talking about.

For acoustic performers without a PA a reasonable distance is generally considered to be somewhere around the critical-distance.  That distance varies with the size of the room and how reverberant it is, but is considerably closer than typical audience-taping distances.   Picture a main pair of microphones flown above and just behind the conductor of an orchestra, generally placed near the critical-distance.  At best, only the middle of first few rows of seating are within that range.   Similar to stage-lip taping an acoustic performer without PA.  From further back you'll wish for the help of the PA unless you don't mind a very distant and diffuse sounding recording.  And with a PA you better be within its direct-sound coverage area.

If we have the majority of the direct-sound amplified thorough a PA instead of relying on direct radiation from acoustic instruments, the critical-distance shifts farther back into the audience.  The design of modern PAs is very much about carefully tailoring directional power response so as to to decrease radiation of direct-sound in directions other than directly toward the audience.   That audience taping a band playing through a large PA is often not ideal from the front few rows is an indication of the directional nature of PAs designed to project more of their direct sound further back into the audience than into the area just in front of the stage.

PA taping is a quite odd thing in the world of recording and acoustics.  What is a reasonable "taper" distance is not reasonable at all for most other forms of music recording.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2020, 02:26:55 PM by Gutbucket »
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2020, 02:18:25 PM »
^ A "reasonable taping distance", at least for open taping, is "the best spot the venue will let me put my stand".  ;)

There may be some added flexibility for stealth...
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2020, 02:29:23 PM »
Egzactly! Reasonable is relative.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2020, 07:15:41 PM »
I had Nak’s previously (cm1, cm3, cm4), have owned/used a variety of schoeps caps. I primarily use the mk41’s and have use them everywhere from arenas to onstage in tiny clubs. They sound great in all applications, even where they “shouldn’t”, e.g., onstage. I loved the naks and still do but the schoeps are a big upgrade in sound quality, balance, smoothness. Go for it.

Thanks! I will!
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2020, 07:23:36 PM »
Tank you Aanronji and Gutbucket. These are very nice posts.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #52 on: July 09, 2020, 12:50:58 PM »
kuba, another suggestion: Schoeps microphones with the MK 41 capsule are commonly available for rent on a daily or weekly basis from various companies that support film and video sound recordists. Maybe it would be worth your while to set up an account with such a company and rent a pair for trial, when the time comes that there's something you want to record. There's nothing quite like having the item in your hands, using it the way that makes best sense to you, then listening to the results and comparing that to what you hoped for or expected.

Each type of microphone has a learning experience attached to it. So the acquisition of a new type of microphone also calls for adjustments in oneself. All the cookbook recipes are just starting points; then you listen and adapt your technique to suit your purposes and preferences.

--best regards
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #53 on: July 09, 2020, 04:23:14 PM »
I'll surely repeat something already said, so sorry ahead: 

The pattern of the mic at some low frequency will be reduced to omni, generally speaking.  Higher directivity will at least help knock back the sliding frequency scale from expected pattern at some mid frequency to omni reverberant pickup in the extreme lows.  Any bass rolloff that comes with is also there to control it and keep the pattern more in check.  You may still get 'all reverb', but it should be less muddy with a pattern having greater directivity.  I think!  Certainly some circumstance exists that would prove it wrong. 

Moving beyond 2 mics, I like having a coincident omni or a pair of spaced omni outriggers as an option.  Many times in clubs my center coincident ends up being a tighter pattern to knock down reverb and it drags the bass down too far, I can then use a low pass filter of some type with the omni(s) to rebalance the spectrum, if AB then it adds low frequency spaciousness without adding mid and top reverb. 

If you're well past the critical distance, you're also fighting treble losses.  That's what the treble boost in so many mics is there to compensate for. 
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 01:46:34 PM by EmRR »
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2020, 08:42:29 PM »
Oooh ... that's a bit confusing, I find. The microphone's directional behavior doesn't change based on how far it is from the sound sources, but the makeup of the sound field at the microphone surely does.

I would emphasize that a microphone can only pick up the sound field that's present at its location--or some selected portion of that sound field, based on the microphone's pickup pattern. The farther a microphone is from the sound sources in a reverberant environment, the more the sound field at the microphone will consist of diffuse, reflected sound rather than direct sound. "Diffuse" characterizes both the arrival times and the angles of arrival. It's those sound arrivals that become increasingly "omnidirectional" with greater miking distances, in that their angles of incidence become more and more nearly random; the microphone doesn't become any more "omnidirectional" itself.

At the same time, at greater distances the microphone's diffuse-field response (i.e. all angles integrated, and taking its directional pattern into account), rather than its on-axis response, increasingly characterizes the sound that you'll get with it. This is precisely the situation in which a small, high-quality single-diaphragm supercardioid microphone excels over larger microphones of all kinds, dual-diaphragm microphones of all kinds, and/or other directional patterns. (Actually a pure figure-8 has the best match between on-axis response and diffuse-field response "all other things being equal", but surely you don't want rear lobes that are as sensitive as the 0-degree pickup when you're far away from the sound source.)

I know that I say this often, but I still feel as if there are people who aren't paying attention: This is why shotgun microphones are such a poor choice for indoor miking at substantial distances--their diffuse-field response at high and upper-midrange frequencies SUCKS. At such distances the angles of sound arrival are mostly random, and the interference tube simply adds coloration rather than filtering out reflections. The tiny residue of direct sound at the front of the microphone is buried within all the other front-arriving sound, and the interference tube can't tell them apart.

By contrast, a good supercardioid (I'm very fond of the Schoeps MK 41 V in this respect) has a diffuse-field response that isn't very much different from its on-axis response. The MK 41 is a little brighter in its diffuse-field response than the 41 V is, if you want the kind of "distance compensation" that EmRR is talking about, and its response is flatter up to frequencies which I no longer hear, but that some people still do.

--best regards
« Last Edit: July 09, 2020, 09:06:03 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #55 on: July 10, 2020, 09:22:36 AM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #56 on: July 10, 2020, 04:28:59 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

Sweet,
Your going to need nbob cables and babynbox.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #57 on: July 10, 2020, 04:46:13 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

Sweet,
Your going to need nbob cables and babynbox.

Already got with Nick (schoepsnbox) on that.  Since I am 99% >:D  -- I am opting for the plastic box version of the Nbob Platinum.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #58 on: July 10, 2020, 04:59:43 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

Sweet,
Your going to need nbob cables and babynbox.

Already got with Nick (schoepsnbox) on that.  Since I am 99% >:D  -- I am opting for the plastic box version of the Nbob Platinum.

Ok

But babynbox is plastic and much smaller.
I’ll send you pics later.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #59 on: July 10, 2020, 06:42:42 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

crazy upgrade! how much if you dont mind?  (total for nbox, cables and caps) ?
Mics: Sound Professionals - SP-CMC-8 , Studio Projects SPC4, Beyerdynamic ck930 , Marcsounds binaurals
Pre amps: Beyerdynamic MV-1 ,  Naiant IPA
Recorders:  Edirol R-44, Edirol R-09HR, Roland  R-05, Tascam  Dr-2d

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #60 on: July 10, 2020, 07:06:42 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

crazy upgrade! how much if you dont mind?  (total for nbox, cables and caps) ?

With the assistance of jerryfreak --- MK41 matched pair with ten year warranty, free shipping, and no sales tax (outside of Nevada) -- $1670.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:45:39 AM by daspyknows »
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #61 on: July 10, 2020, 08:01:43 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

crazy upgrade! how much if you dont mind?  (total for nbox, cables and caps) ?

With the assistance of jerryfreak --- MK41 matched pair with ten year warranty, free shipping, and no sales tax (outside of Nevada) -- $1670. 

Welcome to the team.  That's a nice rig.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:45:08 AM by daspyknows »

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #62 on: July 10, 2020, 09:47:48 PM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

crazy upgrade! how much if you dont mind?  (total for nbox, cables and caps) ?

With the assistance of jerryfreak --- MK41 matched pair with ten year warranty, free shipping, and no sales tax (outside of Nevada) -- $1670. 
appreciate that  I guess the change in my piggy bank will need some more interest before I join the team
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:44:20 AM by daspyknows »
Mics: Sound Professionals - SP-CMC-8 , Studio Projects SPC4, Beyerdynamic ck930 , Marcsounds binaurals
Pre amps: Beyerdynamic MV-1 ,  Naiant IPA
Recorders:  Edirol R-44, Edirol R-09HR, Roland  R-05, Tascam  Dr-2d

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2020, 12:54:54 AM »
I just took the plunge on a new pair of matched MK41s!

I'm totally psyched!!  Now ... I just have to hope some upcoming shows for which I have tickets don't get canceled and I actually get to use them. ;)

crazy upgrade! how much if you dont mind?  (total for nbox, cables and caps) ?

With the assistance of jerryfreak --- MK41 matched pair with ten year warranty, free shipping, and no sales tax (outside of Nevada) -- $1670. 
appreciate that  I guess the change in my piggy bank will need some more interest before I join the team

Used Schoeps show up here all the time.  Save some money there.  I would always go for new actives though.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2020, 11:44:44 AM by daspyknows »

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2020, 05:27:22 AM »
Took the plunge as well.

Ordered the NBob + babynbox combination and purchased a matched pair of mk41's.

Can't wait. This has been my dream rig for years.

Paid EUR 2.418,00 in total.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2020, 05:46:23 PM »
Congrats! Plenty of new schoeps, nuthin' to tape :-)
music>mics>pre>recorder

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2020, 07:10:00 AM »
Robeti and Guitard, congratulation for great rigs.

DSatz, it's very good idea to rent Schoeps. I record little, so the good old Nakamichi is enough for me. But if I record any music that I care about a lot, I rent Schoeps. Also thanks for explaining theory. I like it a lot to read these posts.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2020, 08:23:18 AM by kuba e »

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2020, 10:12:54 AM »
Robeti and Guitard, congratulation for great rigs.

DSatz, it's very good idea to rent Schoeps. I record little, so the good old Nakamichi is enough for me. But if I record any music that I care about a lot, I rent Schoeps. Also thanks for explaining theory. I like it a lot to read these posts.

Thanks!
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2020, 01:36:53 PM »
Robeti and Guitard, congratulation for great rigs.

DSatz, it's very good idea to rent Schoeps. I record little, so the good old Nakamichi is enough for me. But if I record any music that I care about a lot, I rent Schoeps. Also thanks for explaining theory. I like it a lot to read these posts.

Next time we meet and tape I will bring both my pairs.  You can use my extra set. 

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #69 on: July 13, 2020, 09:49:16 AM »
It will be great to tape together again! I also hope you will have more free time in Prague.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #70 on: July 13, 2020, 10:40:44 AM »
I've pulled the trigger on ordering the MK41s, but I need to get the rest of the rig.  I've gone through the threads, and while there is a lot about the Baby Nbox and the Nbox Platinum -- I can't find anything the educates me on which one is best for general >:D taping.

Can someone please post the pros/cons of each box for >:D?

Thanks!
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #71 on: July 13, 2020, 11:04:38 AM »
baby is the smallest but has no gain. it only comes in ABS
the regular nbox and its variation (plus/platinum, etc) is much larger, some are metal cases, but it is available in ABS on request. it has a gain stage so you theoretically make a better recording with most handhelds as youre going line-in to them instead of mic-in
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2020, 11:04:51 AM »
Nbox is a preamp.
Baby Nbox is a battery box.

With Nbox you can use line-in on recorder.
With Baby Nbox you might be able to use line-in on recorder..  but might need to use Mic-in on recorder.  I've never used Baby Nbox, but people seem to love it and some seem to be successful when going Baby Nbox to Line-in on recorder.

I've used Nbox+ in the past and had great results unless I had bad batteries.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2020, 11:24:47 AM »
Nbox is a preamp.
Baby Nbox is a battery box.

With Nbox you can use line-in on recorder.
With Baby Nbox you might be able to use line-in on recorder..  but might need to use Mic-in on recorder.  I've never used Baby Nbox, but people seem to love it and some seem to be successful when going Baby Nbox to Line-in on recorder.

I've used Nbox+ in the past and had great results unless I had bad batteries.

This is an accurate description.  Will add a few things that are useful.  I have both and use them both.  Each is a useful tool.  Sometimes one needs a hammer and another time a screwdriver.

BabyNbox runs on 1 9 volt battery and is most useful when  >:D in high security situations.  Battery lasts a long time.   I have never run line in with it on a Tascam DR-2D.     

NBox Platinum is a redesign of the original NBox with enhanced battery life as the biggest improvement over the original NBox (50 hours vs 10 for 4 9-volt batteries).  It is larger than the BabyNbox and depending on venue security and skills it may represent a challenge to get in for some.  It has gain since it is a pre-amp but the gain is not adjustable which was not clear from an earlier comment. 

The actives work with either box.  Also recommend the metal connectors if stealthing.  I broke the plastic connectors a few times but never broke the metal ones.


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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #74 on: July 13, 2020, 03:37:19 PM »
Nbox is a preamp.
Baby Nbox is a battery box.

With Nbox you can use line-in on recorder.
With Baby Nbox you might be able to use line-in on recorder..  but might need to use Mic-in on recorder.  I've never used Baby Nbox, but people seem to love it and some seem to be successful when going Baby Nbox to Line-in on recorder.

I've used Nbox+ in the past and had great results unless I had bad batteries.

This is an accurate description.  Will add a few things that are useful.  I have both and use them both.  Each is a useful tool.  Sometimes one needs a hammer and another time a screwdriver.

BabyNbox runs on 1 9 volt battery and is most useful when  >:D in high security situations.  Battery lasts a long time.   I have never run line in with it on a Tascam DR-2D.     

NBox Platinum is a redesign of the original NBox with enhanced battery life as the biggest improvement over the original NBox (50 hours vs 10 for 4 9-volt batteries).  It is larger than the BabyNbox and depending on venue security and skills it may represent a challenge to get in for some.  It has gain since it is a pre-amp but the gain is not adjustable which was not clear from an earlier comment. 

The actives work with either box.  Also recommend the metal connectors if stealthing.  I broke the plastic connectors a few times but never broke the metal ones.

I also have both the Baby Nbox and the Nbox Platnium...for stealth I always use the Baby Nbox with one of my Sony of M10s, but I had the M10 modded by Doug from OADE  to upgrade the MicIn

Just my 2 cents...

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #75 on: July 13, 2020, 04:22:40 PM »
Like DaSpy, I have both the Baby and the Platinum.  I use the Platinum 90% of the time, because I know how to get it through metal detectors. 

The Baby Box is really just a battery box supplying the voltage to run the Schoeps.  Initially, I disliked it due to the sound, but quite frankly in some venues, metal detectors, wands, empty pockets and pat downs (yep, there are few really aggressive venues), it came it useful.  I got over the sound, and developed a plug in setting to boost the frequencies that needed, actually a curve of sorts, and it its hard to tell the difference these days.  Like DaSpy, I use "Mike In"  on my recorder, not "Line In."  You'll need a special set of cords for the Baby Box, the two are not interchangable with the NBox. 

I'll always take both to every show, and decide after checking out the security line which preamp to use.  Like I said, the Platinum is still my go-to preamp. 

But if you are unskilled or paranoid about security checks, then I suggest the Baby NBox. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #76 on: July 13, 2020, 05:54:30 PM »
Like DaSpy, I have both the Baby and the Platinum.  I use the Platinum 90% of the time, because I know how to get it through metal detectors.

I have been trying to decide which to get, and what you wrote here seals the deal for me.  I have never had a problem getting anything through metal detectors.  Thanks!
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #77 on: July 13, 2020, 07:31:10 PM »
I "think" that there might be an ABS plastic box option for the Platinum.  Not sure on that..  but you should ask if needed.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #78 on: July 13, 2020, 07:48:49 PM »
I "think" that there might be an ABS plastic box option for the Platinum.  Not sure on that..  but you should ask if needed.

There most definitely is.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #79 on: July 13, 2020, 08:40:37 PM »
Like DaSpy, I have both the Baby and the Platinum. I use the Platinum 90% of the time, because I know how to get it through metal detectors. 

The Baby Box is really just a battery box supplying the voltage to run the Schoeps.  Initially, I disliked it due to the sound, but quite frankly in some venues, metal detectors, wands, empty pockets and pat downs (yep, there are few really aggressive venues), it came it useful.  I got over the sound, and developed a plug in setting to boost the frequencies that needed, actually a curve of sorts, and it its hard to tell the difference these days.  Like DaSpy, I use "Mike In"  on my recorder, not "Line In."  You'll need a special set of cords for the Baby Box, the two are not interchangable with the NBox. 

I'll always take both to every show, and decide after checking out the security line which preamp to use.  Like I said, the Platinum is still my go-to preamp. 

But if you are unskilled or paranoid about security checks, then I suggest the Baby NBox.

If you are getting the Platinum  through Madison Square Garden please PM me your secrets. :help:

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #80 on: July 14, 2020, 07:12:47 AM »
Same here. I'd like a pm with your tricks :)
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #81 on: July 14, 2020, 02:34:43 PM »
With regard to Nbox Platinum's option of a plastic or metal case ... conventional wisdom suggests a metal box would be sturdier ... but a plastic box would be easier for >:D.  But if you've got 4x 9v batteries in a plastic box ... does it really make a difference?
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #82 on: July 14, 2020, 02:51:00 PM »
I'll defer to actual users to give you a more definitive answer, however I presume it depends on which batteries are used and specifically if they have a metal case (std alkaline) or a plastic case (Powerex NiMH, etc).
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #83 on: July 14, 2020, 02:52:39 PM »
I'll defer to actual users to give you a more definitive answer, however I presume it depends on which batteries are used and specifically if they have a metal case (std alkaline) or a plastic case (Powerex NiMH, etc).

I've never heard of batteries with plastic cases.  Very interesting ...
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #84 on: July 14, 2020, 03:10:46 PM »
NiMH rechargables are generally a good option, but check what other Nbox users recommend for specific battery recommendations as the voltages, mAh ratings, and discharge curves are a different than standard "9V's".  Most are closer to either 8V or 10V and some require a specific charger.  If going with NiMH I recommend a low self discharge version as they hold a charge much longer (similar charge holding to alkalines) making them far more predictable both in the short run and over time as they age.   A set should last ~3 years or so.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 09:44:22 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline yug du nord

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #85 on: July 14, 2020, 05:02:05 PM »
I think that these were the "best" rechargeable 9V a few years ago..  not sure if there is a better option these days??.

The white 9.6V version.

https://mahaenergy.com/powerex-9-6v-230mah-1-pack/

I know some Nbox users use rechargeables...  but I know that alkalines are more trustworthy. 

Hopefully current Nbox users will chime in.


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« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 06:03:38 PM by yug du nord »
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Offline perks

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #86 on: July 14, 2020, 05:27:14 PM »
The white Powerex 9.6v rechargeable batteries are not the low self discharge version. They work just fine however for the same price you can get these....

https://www.thomasdistributing.com/Maha-Precharged-9V-96V-230-mAh-Low-Discharge-NIMH-Rechargeable-Battery_p_2455.html

Using Duracell coppertop 9V will power your Nbox for a bit longer than the rechargeables (either version) but the cost of buying a new Duracells 4-pack every other show will quickly add up. I always looked at it like buying an additional ticket to a show plus throwing away hundreds of dead coppertops is just such a waste. The rechargeables will easily save you $1k over the life of the battery. The key is to get the correct charger for the batteries and make sure you are buying the 9.6V version and not the 9V rechargeable battery. Using a charger that can identify when the battery is going to crap out will make using rechargeable batteries foolproof. I have not had any issues with a rechargeable not performing in the field.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 05:29:19 PM by perks »
Mics: Schoeps MK5's (matched), Schoeps MK41's (matched), AT853u's (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061's
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661, Sound Devices Mixpre-3

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #87 on: July 14, 2020, 05:57:29 PM »
Any recommendations for windscreens and dead rats to stealth the MK41's in a hat?
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #88 on: July 14, 2020, 06:04:38 PM »
I think that these were the "best" rechargeable 9V a few years ago..  not sure if there is a better option these days??.

The white 9.6V version.

https://mahaenergy.com/powerex-9-6v-230mah-1-pack/

I know some Nbox users use rechargeables...  but I know that alkalines are more trustworthy. 

Hopefully current Nbox users will chime in.

I use Duracell Pro Cells.  I know I should use rechargeables but I feel safer using these.

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #89 on: July 14, 2020, 06:09:45 PM »
buying a new Duracells 4-pack every other show will quickly add up.

Two shows is typically around 5-6 hours? I thought I read you could get a lot more recording time than that with a fresh set of batteries.
Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #90 on: July 14, 2020, 06:30:14 PM »
The black low discharge Maha's replaced the older white ones as far as I'm aware and are a more standard case size.  I had a couple older white ones fail (bloated case, replaced at no cost by Thomas Distributing) but have not had any problems with the black ones.

This is covered in the battery threads, but a foolproof method to catching them prior to eventual failure once they are nearing end of life is to measure the voltage of each while the batteries are still in the device and under load after the concert.  You will learn early on what the typical voltage measurement is at that point.  It will then be obvious when one or more begin to drop in voltage more than usual and/or more than the others in the set.  At that point replace the entire set.  I've not had any failures using this method with these batteries for the past 8 years and now trust them more than disposable alkalines. Had a disposable fail when I picked up a couple from a convenience store in an taping emergency, probably old stock.  The key is to measure voltage afterwards under load.  Without a load on the battery the voltage can return to nominal and appear fine.

 
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #91 on: July 14, 2020, 06:57:51 PM »
buying a new Duracells 4-pack every other show will quickly add up.

Two shows is typically around 5-6 hours? I thought I read you could get a lot more recording time than that with a fresh set of batteries.

Yeah I was referring to the good ol' vintage Nbox not the newer circuit Nbox that most people are buying now. I think people are getting insane run times using the Nbox Platinum. Since most of the shows I record are a 3 hour event I've been satisfied using my old fashioned Nbox and flipping the batteries roughly every 3-4 hours giving me a 6 to 8 hour run time on 4 9V's.

I have no idea if there is  difference in the sound between the different options of Nboxes.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2020, 07:01:49 PM by perks »
Mics: Schoeps MK5's (matched), Schoeps MK41's (matched), AT853u's (C,SC,H,O), DPA 4061's
Preamps/converters: Schoeps VMS52UB (x2), Nbox (x2), E.A.A. PSP-2 (x2) Grace Lunatec V2 (for sale), Sound Devices MP-2 (for sale), DPA MMA6000, Naiant Tinybox v1.5, Naiant PiPsqueak, Church Ugly, Apogee Mini-Me, Benchmark AD2k+
Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Korg MR-1, Edirol R-05, Sony PCM-M10 (x2), Tascam DR-07, Marantz PMD-661, Sound Devices Mixpre-3

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #92 on: July 14, 2020, 11:19:56 PM »
buying a new Duracells 4-pack every other show will quickly add up.

Two shows is typically around 5-6 hours? I thought I read you could get a lot more recording time than that with a fresh set of batteries.

Yeah I was referring to the good ol' vintage Nbox not the newer circuit Nbox that most people are buying now. I think people are getting insane run times using the Nbox Platinum. Since most of the shows I record are a 3 hour event I've been satisfied using my old fashioned Nbox and flipping the batteries roughly every 3-4 hours giving me a 6 to 8 hour run time on 4 9V's.

I have no idea if there is  difference in the sound between the different options of Nboxes.

Battery life is the biggest difference in the new version.  There was marginal difference in sound when we did an A/B years ago.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2020, 02:43:31 AM »
NiMH rechargables are generally a good option, but check what other Nbox users recommend for specific battery recommendations as the voltages, mAh ratings, and discharge curves are a different than standard "9V's".  Most are closer to either 7V or 10V (some need a specific charger).  If going with NiMH I recommend a low self discharge version as they hold a charge much longer (similar charge holding to alkalines) making them far more predictable both in the short run and over time as they age.   A set should last ~3 years or so.

they are nominal '8.4' or 9'6' depending on cell count, you trade voltage for capacity. that nominal voltage is closer to their discharged voltage, they run a little higher than that in steady state. "0.2C" would be discharging at 0.2X capacity of the battery (so 5 hours to discharge)
on left is 8.4V 300 mAh powerex precharge, on the right 9.6V 230mAh

the 9.6V "seems" to have more capacity but keep in mind its 0.2C is lower at 46 mA vs the 8.4V's 60 mA



dont sleep on the Li-ion 9V, lighter wight and much higher capacity, theres some discussion here, IRT the nbox

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193133

AFAIK Nick never offered any specs on what is the minimum operating voltage for any of his products, so were kinda flying blind on anecdotes at this point. Any of the above solutions should offer acceptable capacity but the voltage range would be good to know. I imagine like most analog audio circuits as voltage dips performance begins to degrade gradually. The good news about the rechargeables is they deliver a much flatter curve. heres a li-ion



alkaline chemistry doesnt have nearly as flat of a curve as the rechargeable options above

« Last Edit: July 15, 2020, 03:05:02 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline dactylus

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2020, 08:57:09 AM »
The white Powerex 9.6v rechargeable batteries are not the low self discharge version. They work just fine however for the same price you can get these....

https://www.thomasdistributing.com/Maha-Precharged-9V-96V-230-mAh-Low-Discharge-NIMH-Rechargeable-Battery_p_2455.html

Using Duracell coppertop 9V will power your Nbox for a bit longer than the rechargeables (either version) but the cost of buying a new Duracells 4-pack every other show will quickly add up. I always looked at it like buying an additional ticket to a show plus throwing away hundreds of dead coppertops is just such a waste. The rechargeables will easily save you $1k over the life of the battery. The key is to get the correct charger for the batteries and make sure you are buying the 9.6V version and not the 9V rechargeable battery. Using a charger that can identify when the battery is going to crap out will make using rechargeable batteries foolproof. I have not had any issues with a rechargeable not performing in the field.

^

These work like a champ in both of my nBox Platinums.

https://www.thomasdistributing.com/Maha-Precharged-9V-96V-230-mAh-Low-Discharge-NIMH-Rechargeable-Battery_p_2455.html


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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2020, 04:53:08 PM »
I will take a contrary view, probably unpopular.  I had a couple instances where I used rechargables in my original NBox which was a bit of a power hog.  They were tested before the show, were AOK and crapped out in the middle of a Dylan show.  End of rechargables for me.  New AAAs, and the old ones go in the landfill.  Sorry Woodsy.  If they still have a few volts, then in the box for TV remotes and other devices until they crap out. 

I will not drop a couple hundred dollars for a ticket, sometimes, an airline flight and hotel, food and stuff to lose the tape of the show.  Not going to happen again, and hasn't.

All that said, I use rechargeables everywhere in my home, for the remotes, the clocks, the garage door opener, the gate security, and my handheld GPS, Beacon, and Radio I use for trail patrol.  I have boxes of rechargeables, and recharge them en mass when needed.  Woodsy is my friend.
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2020, 07:00:00 PM »
^ I totally understand and don't mean to come across as criticizing your methods at all, but more reliable testing really is the key.  If other readers have only one take-away from all this it should be that testing voltage prior to a show is an insufficiently reliable indication of capacity and state of life for any battery.  I was also burned doing that prior to recognizing why it isn't reliable. Testing after each show while still under load and watching for drop in voltage from the general trend over time is the only really reliable way I've found to catch failures before they occur.   As posted above:

This is covered in the battery threads, but a foolproof method to catching them prior to eventual failure once they are nearing end of life is to measure the voltage of each while the batteries are still in the device and under load after the concert.  You will learn early on what the typical voltage measurement is at that point.  It will then be obvious when one or more begin to drop in voltage more than usual and/or more than the others in the set.  At that point replace the entire set.  I've not had any failures using this method with these batteries for the past 8 years and now trust them more than disposable alkalines. Had a disposable fail when I picked up a couple from a convenience store in an taping emergency, probably old stock.  The key is to measure voltage afterwards under load.  Without a load on the battery the voltage can return to nominal and appear fine.

I'll add that for most reliable results, the device should be left powered on until the voltage measurement can be determined.  Use the probes of a voltmeter to check without taking the battery out of the circuit in the still-powered-on device. This has worked flawlessly for me in successfully determining the end of useful recording life over the course of 3 or 4 sets of 9.6V NiMH at this point.  They are then tossed or repurposed for less demanding applications.  Once habituated to doing this after every show I start paying particular attention to the results after a couple years of use as I know I'm getting closer to replacement time.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #97 on: July 15, 2020, 07:23:55 PM »
Another way of thinking about it, in light of determining reliability:

Using disposables, we rely on the credibility of the manufacturer, their quality control and the outlet through which we acquire the batteries (choosing known-good brands, far future use-by dates, etc).  With a reliable testing methodology, after determining that the batteries initially perform to specification over the course of a couple full length run-tests, we determine reliability by way of our own testing - assuming that credibility ourselves.

I assume a new copper top alkaline bought from a reliable source with a sufficiently far out use-by date will not fail (and most of the time it will not), but I've determined that my rechargeable will be reliable for at least the next show occurring within a reasonable amount of time.  And if one doesn't occur for months and I have any concern about it I can make another run-test prior.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline EmRR

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #98 on: July 15, 2020, 08:26:39 PM »
Yes ^

An extreme illustrative example, they used to make a kind of bias battery for tube gear that was very long life because it obly had to establish a voltage potential, with almost no load to speak of.  I found one roughly 20 years ago in a repairman's estate boxes, it was in circuit and it still measured voltage in 'as new range'.   Probably 60 years old at the time.  Put any sort of load on that, it'd suck down to 0V and that'd be the end.  A battery can show POTENTIAL very long, and that's not the same as CAPACITY.   Potential under expected load will show some voltage drop that gives a clue about capacity. 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #99 on: July 16, 2020, 12:01:16 AM »
Yeah, all I am really saying is brand new batteries, as opposed to used rechargeables, will have a better success rate.  By the way, I check the voltage of new batteries before heading out to the venue. 

I have no data to support my opinion, only my own experience.  I'll embrace Woodsy the Owl in other ways.  I simply will not take the risk in a high profile stadium setting of battery failure. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline heathen

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #100 on: July 16, 2020, 09:47:48 AM »
I will take a contrary view, probably unpopular.  I had a couple instances where I used rechargables in my original NBox which was a bit of a power hog.  They were tested before the show, were AOK and crapped out in the middle of a Dylan show.  End of rechargables for me.  New AAAs, and the old ones go in the landfill.  Sorry Woodsy.  If they still have a few volts, then in the box for TV remotes and other devices until they crap out. 

Would it kill you to dispose of all those batteries properly?
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 11:14:01 AM by heathen »
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #101 on: July 16, 2020, 09:52:20 AM »
Perfectly fine to operate that way, but that blanket statement is not objective and testing methodology unreliable.  Nominally new batteries do not have a predictably better success rate, and checking voltage prior is a useful yet insufficient data point.  For the reasons stated above, properly tested used rechargeables are more predictably reliable than either brand new disposables or brand new rechargables.  It is the test history (which incurs a degree of "usedness") upon which a more trustworthy prediction of reliability can be made.

The "green" argument is entirely separate from reliability.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 09:58:44 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline EmRR

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2020, 11:16:23 AM »
Is there a FAQ anywhere here on battery recycling?  There just aren’t easy obvious options most places.  I deal with 12-16 wireless mics on a regular, sometimes daily, basis (8-10 hours run time) and we’ve found rechargables to be impractical and alkaline disposal/recycle options nonexistent in most locations.  We go through 30ish batteries a day, and try to give away the used on the basis they’re fine for tv remote/etc.  I have a lifetime supply for wireless keyboards, mouse, etc, even if they only last a week. 
« Last Edit: July 16, 2020, 12:50:54 PM by EmRR »
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
Recorders: Zoom F8n, Sony MZ-R50, portable MOTU based multitrack DAW for client work

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #103 on: July 16, 2020, 11:25:41 AM »
alkalines are safe to landfill
only way to not create landfill is to not use 'em
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #104 on: July 16, 2020, 12:04:09 PM »
alkalines are safe to landfill
only way to not create landfill is to not use 'em

"Safe" is a loaded term in this context.  I won't derail the thread further though.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #105 on: July 16, 2020, 12:50:30 PM »
Is there a FAQ anywhere here on battery recycling?  There just aren’t easy obvious options most places.  I deal with 12-16 wireless mics on a regular, sometimes daily, basis (8-10 hours run time) and we’ve found rechargables to be impractical and alkaline disposal/recycle options nonexistent in most locations.  We go through 30ish batteries a day, and try to give away the used on the basis they’re fine for remote/etc.

My local recycling place takes them.  I keep saving them up until I have 60 to 70 lbs and bring a big box of dead ones.  Not using many these days.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #106 on: July 16, 2020, 01:06:28 PM »
Intending to dispose of them properly I ended up with a huge box of spent ones before shifting to rechargeables. I ended up giving it to my nephew when he came across it and his eyes grew large.  He was having fun playing around with little electric motors and stuff.  The next time I visited he'd hooked them all together in a huge series chain to make big low-current high-voltage sparks.  The visit after that they had quietly disappeared.

A commercial battery place here used to accept them along with old SLAs and other lead acids, but I've no idea if they actually recycled or just dumped them.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #107 on: July 16, 2020, 05:06:43 PM »
^ Here, all (or, at least, most) grocery and electronics stores have receptacles for spent batteries (both alkaline and rechargeable) and light bulbs. I usually bring the old ones to drop in the bucket when I go to buy new ones.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #108 on: July 16, 2020, 05:14:20 PM »
^ Best Buy's everywhere have them too.
Schoeps MK41s > nbob KCY >
Naiant PFA 60v > Sound Devices MP-6  or  Naiant IPA > Roland R-07

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #109 on: July 16, 2020, 06:14:17 PM »
alkalines are safe to landfill
only way to not create landfill is to not use 'em

"Safe" is a loaded term in this context.  I won't derail the thread further though.
yes i meant by TCLP regs in a modern protected landfill. i still avoid them at all costs.
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #110 on: July 26, 2020, 01:52:19 AM »
Any recommendations for windscreens and dead rats to stealth the MK41's in a hat?

Did you decide to go for the MK41s then?  I was just going to strongly recommend them as the CCM41s were my all time favorite mics.  If I were taping still I would only run those, in every setting.

For running a hat rig, I've found it will be near impossible to really block wind rumble because nothing you can fit under there will be that effective outdoors when it's windy.  I used those little Schoeps windscreens and it was pretty useless in windy outdoors conditions.  If you could fit some dead rats (someone used to make them here but they are too bulky really to stealth) it could work but really not practical unless you get something like this to stealth tape in:


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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #111 on: July 27, 2020, 01:11:28 AM »
I would stealth with her all day long.  It would give a whole new meaning to a stack tape. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #112 on: July 27, 2020, 09:48:52 AM »
Interesting choice of accessories.

Cultivating sufficient dead airspace around each microphone is the goal for wind noise reduction.  Foam can work under a hat when it provides sufficient structure to support whatever drapes over / presses against it without collapsing.  Furry covers not so much because they'll tend to simply mat down flat.  Fur needs to be sufficiently fluffed to blow around freely and mechanically damp the movement of air immediately around the microphone, so it only works as an outer layer.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline TheMetalist

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #113 on: July 27, 2020, 02:58:35 PM »
Maybe this hat? Sexy as f...

« Last Edit: July 27, 2020, 03:02:23 PM by TheMetalist »
"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #114 on: July 27, 2020, 07:26:58 PM »
Maybe this hat? Sexy as f...


ALSO HOT AS F! regular Kangols are hot enough in a small venue or in the sun. 
Mics: Sound Professionals - SP-CMC-8 , Studio Projects SPC4, Beyerdynamic ck930 , Marcsounds binaurals
Pre amps: Beyerdynamic MV-1 ,  Naiant IPA
Recorders:  Edirol R-44, Edirol R-09HR, Roland  R-05, Tascam  Dr-2d

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #115 on: July 28, 2020, 04:28:12 AM »
Maybe this hat? Sexy as f...


ALSO HOT AS F! regular Kangols are hot enough in a small venue or in the sun.

Yes, it was a joke. Most outdoor festivals/shows are held in the summer and using a furry hat a sunny day is not just hot. It is like: Look at me. LOOK AT ME! I don't think I'm the only one who prefer to be descrete when taping shows. But in theory this hat could be a nice wind blocker.
"The music is your passport - Your magic key - To all the madness that awaits you." B.L. '86

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #116 on: July 31, 2020, 05:37:36 PM »
The matched set of caps arrived today. They're so beautiful.
And small! Really looking forward to run them asap!
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #117 on: August 01, 2020, 09:42:48 AM »
Do you have actives so you can use them?

The matched set of caps arrived today. They're so beautiful.
And small! Really looking forward to run them asap!
Microtech Gefell m20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) or AKG ck61's & ck63's> Naiant Actives> Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

-22        -12         -6        TDS     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #118 on: August 01, 2020, 10:33:58 AM »
Do you have actives so you can use them?

The matched set of caps arrived today. They're so beautiful.
And small! Really looking forward to run them asap!

Ordered nbobs + baby nbox from Nick.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #119 on: August 01, 2020, 11:22:53 AM »
Do you have actives so you can use them?

The matched set of caps arrived today. They're so beautiful.
And small! Really looking forward to run them asap!

Ordered nbobs + baby nbox from Nick.

Congrats on the new rig.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #120 on: August 02, 2020, 12:04:33 PM »
Do you have actives so you can use them?

The matched set of caps arrived today. They're so beautiful.
And small! Really looking forward to run them asap!

Ordered nbobs + baby nbox from Nick.

Congrats on the new rig.

Thank you. It's the rig I've always wanted. I've been taping since 2005. I'm glad I finally have it now.
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

Offline guitard

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #121 on: September 03, 2020, 02:37:01 PM »
Just arrived a couple of minutes ago!  I'm psyched!  Many thanks to jerryfreak for his assistance in helping me make this purchase.



Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #122 on: September 03, 2020, 03:00:30 PM »
nice!

the wooden box is a change, looks like the same box they use for the flexiset (1 cmc+2 capsules)

did it come with a matching certificate or do they just write the SNs on the matched pair packaging now?

they used to come in the vials inside a smaller cardboard box. the vials are pretty handy if youve got multiple caps in your rig but theyve gotten quite expensive lately

https://www.reddingaudiostore.com/catalog/item/8157888/8838842.htm

these are a good cheap alternative

https://www.mcmaster.com/shipping-tubes/

0.87" ID, 2-3" PN 2108T71. will hold 2 caps if you stick a piece of foam between them
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 03:02:04 PM by jerryfreak »
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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #123 on: September 03, 2020, 03:10:09 PM »
Always a nice day when some Schoeps get delivered to your house. :coolguy:

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #124 on: September 03, 2020, 04:54:39 PM »

did it come with a matching certificate or do they just write the SNs on the matched pair packaging now?

Both!



Mics: CA-11 (omnis and cards), AT853 cards, DPA 4060 omnis, Schoeps MK41s
Pre-amps: CA-UGLY II & CA-9100; BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox + Actives for the MK41s
Decks: Edirol R-07 & Edirol R-09HR

Video: Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K) & Sony DSC HX50V (HD)
Photo: Canon EOS 60D

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 13.0 (build 453) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #125 on: September 03, 2020, 06:10:55 PM »
Congratulations!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #126 on: September 03, 2020, 09:54:58 PM »
Hoping for many successful recordings with those.

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #127 on: September 04, 2020, 08:35:47 AM »
Nice!
Schoeps MK22 -> Nbob Actives -> Naiant PFA -> SD MixPre-6ii

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #128 on: September 05, 2020, 01:16:31 PM »
What is the thing underneath the caps? A mount of some sort? Doesn’t look like a body and since you got actives a body wouldn’t make sense anyhow..
Mics: Sound Professionals - SP-CMC-8 , Studio Projects SPC4, Beyerdynamic ck930 , Marcsounds binaurals
Pre amps: Beyerdynamic MV-1 ,  Naiant IPA
Recorders:  Edirol R-44, Edirol R-09HR, Roland  R-05, Tascam  Dr-2d

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #129 on: September 05, 2020, 01:50:58 PM »
its a velcro cable wrap

everything new seems to come with them whether it needs it or not

its the new SWAG i guess
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Offline robeti

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #130 on: September 05, 2020, 08:13:21 PM »

did it come with a matching certificate or do they just write the SNs on the matched pair packaging now?

Both!





Nice! Mine are sn 160966 and  160977
mics: schoeps mk41 (matched) | nakamichi cm-300 (JB mod/cp1/cp2/cp3) | nakamichi cm-50 | primo em4052pmi4's | sp-cmc-4u/at-853 4.7k mod (shotguns/h/c/sc/) | ca-11 c/o
power: ca-ubb | ca-9200 | nbob actives > baby nbox 
recorder: roland r-05 
video: panasonic zs100 | panasonic hdc-sd600 | sony hx9v | sony hx50v

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Re: Schoeps mk41? Doubting to take the plunge...
« Reply #131 on: September 07, 2020, 03:29:38 PM »
just a heads up the first shipment containing guitard's capsules got stolen between germany and redding

if you see any too-good-to-be-true deals on gear with recent serial numbers theyre probably hot

and who knows if there was any gear that was coming back from servicing in there...
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