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Author Topic: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)  (Read 3019 times)

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Offline RobBain

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Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« on: July 29, 2020, 09:56:31 AM »
Hi

I did search before posting (but didn't find anything recent that addressed my questions).

1. Binaural recording - where do you stand?  Often use?  Sometimes use?  Niche offering?  Just for kicks?  Waste of time (why?)

2. Gear.  I'm put off by low-end products (I don't want to use my iPhone).  If I'm going to do this I want a 3.5mm connector.  I don't want to spend $$$s (no heads!).  Is there a sweet spot currently in the market?  I'm a quiet, ambient recordist (not a rock taper).

3. What's the difference between 'binaural' and simply positioning a good pair of mics in or near your ears?  Little difference?  Big difference (if so, why?)?

Many thanks in advance.

Regards,

Rob
Sony PCM-A10 | Sennheiser MKE 600 / LOM mikroUsi's / Clippy EM172s

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2020, 10:22:05 AM »
(We've been manufacturing binaural microphones for 30 years. We're the originator of the clip-on binaural microphones for concert taping.)

If you're recording for yourself and want to capture the concert experience very well for playback over headphones, recording with a pair of high quality microphones mounted near your ears is the way to go.

Since you're using your ears, and everyone elses ears are different, the recording you'll make will sound best for you. Others will hear it differently.

The difference between a binaural mic set and good pair of mics in or near your ears is the degree to which the microphones are matched, in both frequency response and sensitivity.

About price: We offer three levels of binaural mic sets, starting at $85 for our Low Cost Binaural microphone set, up to over $1000 for the High End Binaural microphone set using DPA capsules.

www.core-sound.com
Len Moskowitz
Core Sound
www.core-sound.com

Offline heva

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Offline heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 10:30:57 AM »
Hopefully Moke will chime in because he regularly records with a proper binaural rig (dummy head, etc).

I'd wager that most of the "binaural" recordings made by tapers are more accurately described as HRTF (myself included).

Also, I think "binaural microphone" is a bit of a misnomer.  There may be microphones configured to be well-suited to a binaural setup, but saying "binaural microphone" is a bit like saying DIN microphone or ORTF microphone.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 10:34:32 AM by heathen »
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Offline vanark

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 10:38:08 AM »
Hopefully Moke will chime in

Not likely. He deleted his account.
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

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Offline heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 10:41:24 AM »
Hopefully Moke will chime in

Not likely. He deleted his account.

Really?  That's a bummer.

RobBain, you could search for some of his old posts (though I don't know if they'd still show up?) if you want to see a proper binaural rig in action.  I seem to recall that rocksuitcase may have used a proper binaural rig for some Grateful Dead shows in the 80s, but I could be way off there.  My memory isn't the greatest.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline b9audio

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2020, 11:24:54 AM »
This is recorded with Sennheiser Ambeo headphone/microphones, using my head as the real "dummy" head.
Good, but not ideal. The position is good for shooting video, but too far to sound. The worst part of this, is that you cannot make any noise, difficult when you want to clear your throat to prevent coughing.
https://youtu.be/tVioryBRC7w
Binaural recording is one of the best stereo miking to my experience. The logic is simple, omni microphones are best for sonic performance, but a pair of omni must be spaced to create stereo image. With dummy head, the omni pair can be very close together similar to ORTF, NOS that minimized phasing issue. Here is an example of a binaural dummy head recording:
https://youtu.be/R9jOBV5n-Ms

Offline dyneq

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2020, 11:56:09 AM »
Since you want to do quiet ambient recordings, you will need to be aware of microphone and preamplifier self noise. Typically that means spending more.

Best thing to do is experiment yourself and listen to samples to determine what you want. Who will be listening to your recordings? Will they be using headphones or speakers?

Offline jefflester

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 12:55:28 PM »
Most concert tapers using omnidirectional mics mounted on their person place them on either side of the head somewhere on the temple between the ear and corner of the eye.  That method is generally referred to as HRTF around taperssection.com, which stands for Head Related Transfer Function with one's the head acting as a baffle.  Its not strictly binaural because it does not include the filtering imposed by the outer ear that happens with microphones placed at or inside the ear canals, but it is similar.  That makes it a generally more universal recording method which works well for playback over both speakers and headphones and isn't overly specific to any one particular "set of ears".

Some tapers occasionally use dummy heads instead of their own head, but its not especially common.  Most are "generic heads" with simplified ears.

True binaural recording sampling at the ear-drum (using tiny flexible tubes) is useful in hall acoustics research because it is the only way to reproduce the sound as it was experienced by a listener seated in a specific location in a particular hall.  This requires carefully applied methods to remove binaural response data specific to the individual who's head and ears were used to make the recording, and apply corrections specific to the listener's own binaural response through the specific headphones being used.  David Greisinger uses and writes about this approach extensively.  I believe some of this can be useful to tapers- primarily the corrections applied on the reproduction end for headphone listening more so than the recording techniques.

It is interesting that binaural techniques can provide a form of truly accurate perceptual reproduction, but for music tapers and location recordists the goal is believably and listening enjoyment.  In general binaural recordings give you a "you are there" type listening experience, be that good or bad.  Using 'open rig' recording techniques we can make recordings that can sound better and be more enjoyable than it actually sounded during the performance from that spot.

Two different approaches.


I'm put off by low-end products (I don't want to use my iPhone).  If I'm going to do this I want a 3.5mm connector.  I don't want to spend $$$s (no heads!).  Is there a sweet spot currently in the market?  I'm a quiet, ambient recordist (not a rock taper).

The DPA d:vice connects directly to Iphone (unfortunately not Andrioid compatible) for use with their microphones.  It represents one of the most top quality (and very compact) setups currently available, applicable but not limited to HTRF type recording.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2020, 12:56:09 PM »
I'm chiming in although I need to come back and edit more.
Rob, there is such a  thing as a "proper binaural" set of microphones. I wish Len had gone a bit more in detail (about the mic design itself) as he knows more about this than my psychoacoustic former hydrophone designer self. True Binaural technique uses capsules which are pressure "omnis" ## which are aimed upward into the ear canal, typically using a dummy head, but can be used on your own head. Different from placing typical omni capsules on glasses or near your ears in that each individual's pinnae are unique including that of a dummy head. In Psychoacoustics this is known as the Head Related Transfer function (HRTF), the difference in arrival and location cues in each microphone separated by ones own head or a dummy head.

One result of this is recordings made wearing binaural mics IN the ears are OPTIMALLY played back via headphones or earbuds by the same person who wore the microphones. Playback by others, even with optimal equipment may not hear the same things the original wearer of the mics hears. Thus, the hanging omnis by glasses or clips on a hat has become de rigeur for today's field and hobby recordists in order to listen on stereo speakers or share with a wider audience.

There was a user here, moke, Mike French, who does a fair amount of Binaural recording of generally acoustic music groups using a Sennheiser dummy head. He started using the microphones aimed outward toward the stage or primary sound source as opposed to upward toward the pinnae. He calls that configuration HRTF as it relies only on the Head transfer functions and not the pinnae for accurate reproduction. His technique is top notch.

Product wise-The pinnacle of this was probably the B&K HATS (Head and Torso) heads, then Neumann made one which is a bit more modern and good looking enough to place in symphony halls etc. but each of these is upwards of 5-10 thousand dollars. Then Sennheiser made a less cost dummy head and pressure omni capsules combo in the 1,500 dollar range. Core Sound makes their three binaural offerings, each of which gets excellent reviews by their users. My old company, Sonic Research Associates, owned a JVC dummy head which I have attached a picture of as well as a stock photo of the Sennheiser mke 2002's

edit1: ## gutbucket caught my error. Here is a more pedestrian description of the differences between pressure and pressure gradient capsules:
Quote
The microphones had to be pressure-type microphones as opposed to pressure-gradient types that have directional (cardioid, hypercardioid, figure-eight, etc.) polar patterns. Pressure type mics are naturally omnidirectional and, like our eardrums, receive sound from only one side of the "diaphragm".
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:18:26 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
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Offline BradleyJY15

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2020, 01:00:33 PM »
I have used all of Len's binaural mics: low end, reg, high end.  He has great stuff, and it is all adapted to plug into a recorder and go. Great sound.

(We've been manufacturing binaural microphones for 30 years. We're the originator of the clip-on binaural microphones for concert taping.)

If you're recording for yourself and want to capture the concert experience very well for playback over headphones, recording with a pair of high quality microphones mounted near your ears is the way to go.

Since you're using your ears, and everyone elses ears are different, the recording you'll make will sound best for you. Others will hear it differently.

The difference between a binaural mic set and good pair of mics in or near your ears is the degree to which the microphones are matched, in both frequency response and sensitivity.

About price: We offer three levels of binaural mic sets, starting at $85 for our Low Cost Binaural microphone set, up to over $1000 for the High End Binaural microphone set using DPA capsules.

www.core-sound.com
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Offline rocksuitcase

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music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2020, 01:10:50 PM »
pressure gradient "omnis"
 
^Technical correction.

Pressure component = monopolar (omnidirectional). Pressure gradient component = dipolar (figure-8). Directional pickup pattern microphones are generally derived from a combination of those two basic components within a single design.   Directionality imparted by baffles such as head mounting is a further complication to all that, yet the part most useful to discuss around here.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heva

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 02:37:07 PM »
Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.

Offline heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 02:42:23 PM »
I'm chiming in although I need to come back and edit more.
Rob, there is such a  thing as a "proper binaural" set of microphones. I wish Len had gone a bit more in detail (about the mic design itself) as he knows more about this than my psychoacoustic former hydrophone designer self. True Binaural technique uses capsules which are pressure "omnis" ## which are aimed upward into the ear canal, typically using a dummy head, but can be used on your own head.

Did I go too far when I said "binaural microphone" is a bit of a misonmer?  I'm certainly no expert, and I'd defer to those of you with more knowledge on the subject than I have (which is, let's be honest, pretty much everyone in this thread other than me).
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 03:03:15 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lucas- No, I just wanted to point out some designs are true binaural, but it more of a product thing than a design thing. There truly IS NOT one microphone CAPSULE which makes a set-up binaural, it is the whole rig:
1] using pressure capsules where one end is closed
2]  enabling them to be placed inside real or dummy ears and aimed upward into the pinnaae
3] recording into two channels with no external EQ etc.

In fact, to me, often it is playback methods which determine how well one enjoys their binaural recordings. Until I got decent headphones a few years ago I did not truly get as much out of the old binaural recordings as I knew were there. playback over speakers can have varied results.

heva- +T, that looks like a great set up!   ;D >:D
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 06:06:02 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline heva

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 03:24:18 PM »
heva- +T, that looks alike a great set up!   ;D >:D

Could be worse, check HERE (GS).

Offline RobBain

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 04:02:35 PM »
Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Sony PCM-A10 | Sennheiser MKE 600 / LOM mikroUsi's / Clippy EM172s

Offline heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 04:16:55 PM »
Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Something that just occurred to me is if you're at all DIY-inclined there were Sennheiser MKE2 mics that could be salvaged from some GoPro mic thing.  The GoPro things were getting sold super cheap, but I'm not sure if that deal is still out there.  I think it was $20 per mic.  I have no idea what shipping to Europe would be, but I've got extras and would sell you a pair for what I paid + actual shipping cost to you.  Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

Here's a thread about them: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189272.0
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 07:37:02 PM »
The Gearslutz thread has errors. It conflates binaural recording for measurement and binaural recording for playback. Take it with a grain of salt.

---

One important thing to note is that if you're planning on playing back over on-ear headphones, you do not want to record at the eardrum. In that case, ideally you want to record at the entrance to a blocked ear canal. That way the microphone picks up the influence of the outer ear but doesn't hear the resonances of the ear canal.

A simple way to do that is to build the microphones into a silicone ear mold. The ear mold can be made by your local audiologist or use the kits from Decibullz or Radians.

If you mount the microphone near the entrance to the ear canal but slightly above or in front of it, the resonance of the ear canal can be neglected. That's how our clip-on binaural mic set are intended to be used. They sit in the shadow of the pinna, but not exactly at the ear canal entrance. Or, as I mentioned, you can build the High End Binaural capsules (DPA 4060-series) into custom ear molds.

---

If you record at the ear drum and play back at the entrance to the ear, you'll have to subtract out the ear canal response. That's not easy to do.

It makes sense to record at the ear drum only if you are doing measurements or are playing back using an in-ear phone that sits at the end of the ear canal, right next to the ear drum. Otherwise it's a bad idea.

---

Dummy heads have a single HRTF. The dummy's HRTF is literally wrong for everyone. If your personal HRTF is close to the dummy head's HRTF, you'll get a good effect. Otherwise you'll have serious problems distinguishing front from rear, and you'll have poor elevation (vertical) cues.

---

Hooke Audio's Verse is a low cost binaural recording solution. It has a pair of microphones built into in-ear phones. It records reliably via Bluetooth to smartphones. Other than having a relatively high self-noise spec, it's a good set of microphones for concert taping. I see three sets on eBay at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 08:07:50 PM by Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) »
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Offline beatkilla

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 08:09:52 PM »
I have an awesome set that meets your needs here.

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=190764.0


Offline RobBain

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2020, 02:19:13 PM »
Hi all

I have just stumbled upon the 'Croakie' option (on this forum) so before doing/buying anything else I'll try that will my LOMs first - and see how I get on.

Again, thanks for all the great info provided in response to my original question.

Case closed (for now!).

Regards,

Rob

Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Sony PCM-A10 | Sennheiser MKE 600 / LOM mikroUsi's / Clippy EM172s

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2020, 07:47:45 PM »
Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Great hacking !!

Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2020, 08:48:49 AM »
Just wanted to thank B9audio and Rocksuitcase for the links to their binaural recordings posted above.  Very much enjoyed some headphone listening last night through a new USB DAC/headphone amp I recently picked up in the yardsale.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2020, 01:26:02 PM »
If you go to dimeadozen.org and type in the following search string, you'll see over 900 recordings made with our Core Sound Binaural and High End Binaural microphone sets. (There are actually many more there, but they're not searchable in that way.)

Type this in the "search" box: csb heb "core sound binaural" "coresound binaural" coresound "core sound"

Archive.org's Live Music Archive has a few hundred more.

---

You can see lots and lots of taper comments about our Core Sound Binaural Microphone Set here:

https://www.core-sound.com/mics/12.php

See taper comments about our High End Binaural Microphone Set (using DPA capsules) here:

https://www.core-sound.com/bk/10.php

And for the Low Cost Binaural Microphone Set:

https://www.core-sound.com/lcmics/11.php
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 09:56:20 AM by Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) »
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Offline lerond

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 04:44:37 AM »
The DPA d:vice connects directly to Iphone (unfortunately not Andrioid compatible) for use with their microphones.  It represents one of the most top quality (and very compact) setups currently available, applicable but not limited to HTRF type recording.

I've used the DPA d:vice with both Pixel3 and Nexus6 android phones.
Works fine in situations where I'm worried about carrying much more than a phone.
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 01:58:14 PM »
^ That's good to know. Is there a DPA android app, and can I ask what recording app have you've been using?

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2020, 04:01:05 PM »
there is not a DPA android app

all the app really does is select mono/dual mono/stereo, and HPF

there are a few apps android users have been using sucessfully that are mentioned in the thread

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.0
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2020, 04:16:14 PM »
Thanks, must have overlooked those in that thread.  I don't currently own an android phone/tablet so wasn't sure. 

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2020, 04:20:03 PM »
there are some impossibly small android phones that make an iphone SE look enormous by comparison
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #31 on: August 03, 2020, 04:09:50 PM »
Good news! I was unaware of that.

Now just need to figure out how to use 3 or 4 d:vice into a single phone
(Not interested in trying to do it using multiple syn'c phones)
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #32 on: August 03, 2020, 06:22:18 PM »
Good news! I was unaware of that.

Now just need to figure out how to use 3 or 4 d:vice into a single phone
(Not interested in trying to do it using multiple syn'c phones)

according to dpa 2 d:vices are a no-go on a single usb due to power draw. true for lightning at least, not sure if all usb-c phones have the same limitations

a microPC with multiple USB busses would likely work just fine
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #33 on: August 03, 2020, 08:40:48 PM »
Yeah, my general concept is to incorporate the guts of several d:vices along with a battery to power them into a single external USB battery case.  Multiple mics terminated to a USB style plug into a secondary converted USB port on the external.  Phone + "external USB battery" = easy in..  even with my crazy 6 to 8 channel surround arrays.

A dream tantalizingly just out of reach.  A micro PC that can pass as a phone seems a further reach to me, but I'd love to be wrong about that.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #34 on: August 03, 2020, 09:41:26 PM »
as far as the load goes the mics are next to nothing

the AKM AK5552VN adc chip they use sips power. it’s like half the power consumption of others in the series at only a very slight SN penalty. seems like an obvious design choice

i can’t speak to the power consumption of the (analog) gain circuit they use, though i’ll bet it’s significant relative to digital gain stages
« Last Edit: August 06, 2020, 02:28:21 PM by jerryfreak »
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2020, 04:48:43 PM »
Sennheiser have discontinued the Ambeo Headset which is now sold off at a fraction of the initial price by various sources. Bought two of them, one black one white, and wish I had more time to play with them and post some results. 

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2020, 07:21:08 PM »
Sennheiser have discontinued the Ambeo Headset which is now sold off at a fraction of the initial price by various sources. Bought two of them, one black one white, and wish I had more time to play with them and post some results. 

Ralf

IMO they are worth picking up. Especially if you are an i-Phone user. They certainly don't sound top notch, but for shows where you don't want to put much effort into and just want a listenable copy of the show they are great.
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ DPA 4080 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 ~ Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2020, 08:17:20 PM »
Sennheiser have discontinued the Ambeo Headset which is now sold off at a fraction of the initial price by various sources.

can you link it? id buy one for $100 or so
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2020, 08:55:09 PM »
$79 on Woot. Should be in every tapers toolbox at that price.

https://www.iwoot.us/electronics/earphones-headphones/sennheiser-ambeo-smart-headset-black/12660076.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=USD&shippingcountry=US&gclid=Cj0KCQjwp4j6BRCRARIsAGq4yMGMi6KRaNS8HYu9p0xm7fHqRT_jIthdWDzKs_787ID36YVVa7xCMy0aArsPEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's a recording made with them. This was my first time at this venue. I think I should have been back a bit farther, but it's still a decent recording.

https://youtu.be/X3sHVgTBhOQ
||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ DPA 4080 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 ~ Sennheiser Ambeo Headset |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 | iPod Touch 32GB |||
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||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2020, 12:04:28 AM »
nice. a steal for $80

i measured the voltage on the ambeo breakout box in hopes that 4061s or 4063s could be retrofitted but its just a hair over 2V to the mics
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 11:23:54 PM by jerryfreak »
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2020, 02:06:49 AM »
Thanks for the link Ralph and Mike B!  Ordered a pair.  Hard not to at that price.    ;D
« Last Edit: August 24, 2020, 02:25:39 AM by MIQ »

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2020, 03:38:17 AM »
Thanks for the link Ralph and Mike B!  Ordered a pair.  Hard not to at that price.    ;D
its ideal

setup any buddy with an iphone as a backup. theyre actually not awful as headphones, and when used binaurally, they can be adjusted to attentuate and act like electronic earplugs (tho they still distort at relatively low volumes)

heres a charlie hunter show i ran with ambeos one set and 4061>dvice for another. see if you can guess which one

https://tinyurl.com/cht-tahoe

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2020, 10:47:38 PM »
Thanks for the link Ralph and Mike B!  Ordered a pair.  Hard not to at that price.    ;D

I’ll second that, as an iPhone user at that price just had to grab a set before they dry up. Appreciate the link!
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 | Shure VP88 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 | DPA 4060 & 4266 Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #43 on: August 25, 2020, 12:18:02 AM »
sup with this site?

ordered > they cancelled and they deleted my login

registered new acct> ordered again > they cancelled both order and deleted account again
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2020, 12:32:06 AM »

heres a charlie hunter show i ran with ambeos one set and 4061>dvice for another. see if you can guess which one

https://tinyurl.com/cht-tahoe

Thanks!  Both sets sound fantastic over my Shure headphones.  I love me some Charlie!!  I definitely feel like part of the audience in "Can't Let Go".  Glad to hear how nice these Senn Ambeos can sound.  Thank you for sharing this!!

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #45 on: August 25, 2020, 08:23:42 AM »
sup with this site?

ordered > they cancelled and they deleted my login

registered new acct> ordered again > they cancelled both order and deleted account again

Great, my cc company called to confirm the transaction. Hopefully just because it’s a UK purchase and not a fraud.  :shrug:
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2020, 11:03:03 PM »
I received mine today.  Can't wait to use them.  Haven't opened the Senn packaging yet but it looks legit to me. :coolguy:

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2020, 12:51:46 AM »
Started playing with the Ambeo mics tonight.  I used the iPhone video recorder and the Apogee Metarecorder app to make some test recordings.  Easy to get connected and worked very well.  The Apogee app will take some getting more familiar with but the WAV files sound nice so far.   :cheers:

Jerryfreak what app did you use for the Charlie Hunter recording you shared?

It is certainly more compact than the homemade JLI capsule mics>>homemade battery box>>R09HR I've been using and a lot slicker with the "hear through" capabilities of the headphones and iPhone interface. 
« Last Edit: August 26, 2020, 01:00:34 AM by MIQ »

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2020, 12:55:59 AM »
metarecorder

though the ambeo provides a digital signal and its an ios native device so any recorder like rode or voicerecorderpro should work fine

i personally like the metarecorder interface

if recording at high bitrate use .CAF so you dont get cut off at 4GB
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2020, 01:05:25 AM »
if recording at high bitrate use .CAF so you dont get cut off at 4GB

Thanks for that!

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #50 on: August 28, 2020, 10:54:51 PM »
Mine arrived yesterday, looking forward to experimenting with it. Very handy purse carry along with the iPhone already carried can make it readily available practically anytime.
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2020, 08:47:31 AM »
Anyone who wants to try binaural recording for the first time without breaking the bank? Try these for size:

https://www.thomann.de/gb/roland_wear_pro.htm

They're on sale at Thomann. The original price was well over 100 euros. Originally meant to be worn in your ears, they come with foams against wind noise and small crocodile clamps to attach them to your clothing etc.

Simply cut off the USB-type connector (it isn't a digital interface anyway) and mount a 1/8" stereo jack plug (yellow wire to the tip, red to the ring and screen to the sleeve) instead, connect it to any recorder with plug-in power and there you go.

I've wrapped a pair of them in faux fur and it's now dangling in front of my street-side window, so I can start a recording whenever there's something of interest going on outside - all this without risking any expensive equipment.

Here's a few examples:

Street atmosphere with covidiots protesting half a block away:
http://www.fotoralf.de/audio/covidioten.mp3

The same scene on a calmer Sunday morning:
http://www.fotoralf.de/audio/sonntag.mp3

...and the only goal in the Champions Leage finals, last week:
http://www.fotoralf.be/audio/Tooor.mp3

If you're worried about their slightly higher noise level then just don't try to record the grass growing. Otherwise they're the greatest fun to be had for under ten quid. And no, I have no idea how they'll behave at Death Metal concerts or next to nuclear blasts. ;-)


Ralf

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2020, 08:50:58 AM »
how do they handle loud sounds?
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #53 on: August 29, 2020, 08:59:02 AM »
how do they handle loud sounds?

How come I knew you'd ask this? Well, once more, especially for you...

Quote
And no, I have no idea how they'll behave at Death Metal concerts or next to nuclear blasts.

All I can say is that they do cope with the sirens of police cars and ambulances passing below said window at a distance of some 10 feet.

Ralf
« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 09:01:25 AM by fotoralf.be »
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #54 on: August 29, 2020, 09:02:16 AM »
sorry i missed that last line!
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #55 on: September 03, 2020, 03:26:02 PM »
More Sennheiser Ambeo Headsets on ebay Germany, new for 49.99 euros...

Ralf
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2020, 11:09:20 AM »
Just wanted to chime in on the general discussion about Binaural - I'm transferring DATs that have been long stored for another taper and in those tapes is a 1996 David Murray Octet show from Yoshi's in Oakland promoting the album Dark Star: Music of the Grateful Dead. The taper used Sonic Studios DSM6 into a Sony D7 and it sounds unbelievable. Playback through my 2.1 desk monitor setup or Beyer DT880 cans is present, clear and immersive.

Binaural doesn't work for every situation but when it does work it's remarkable. I guess those who quibble might call this HRTF. Either way it's a smoking tape.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2020, 11:11:38 AM by goodcooker »
Joly Mod Oktava MK012 C,H,O || NakCM300 || ADK A51 > Sound Devices 442 or Reference Audio Designs MS2 > Tascam DR701d
Transfers - Tascam DA30 or Fostex D5 (dats) or Nak MR2 (cassettes) > Sound Devices USB Pre

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2020, 02:25:50 PM »
^ Would love to take a gander if possible!

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2020, 02:29:01 PM »
Just wanted to chime in on the general discussion about Binaural - I'm transferring DATs that have been long stored for another taper and in those tapes is a 1996 David Murray Octet show from Yoshi's in Oakland promoting the album Dark Star: Music of the Grateful Dead. The taper used Sonic Studios DSM6 into a Sony D7 and it sounds unbelievable. Playback through my 2.1 desk monitor setup or Beyer DT880 cans is present, clear and immersive.

Binaural doesn't work for every situation but when it does work it's remarkable. I guess those who quibble might call this HRTF. Either way it's a smoking tape.

location is everything!
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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2020, 03:53:34 AM »
Just wanted to chime in on the general discussion about Binaural - I'm transferring DATs that have been long stored for another taper and in those tapes is a 1996 David Murray Octet show from Yoshi's in Oakland promoting the album Dark Star: Music of the Grateful Dead. The taper used Sonic Studios DSM6 into a Sony D7 and it sounds unbelievable. Playback through my 2.1 desk monitor setup or Beyer DT880 cans is present, clear and immersive.

Binaural doesn't work for every situation but when it does work it's remarkable. I guess those who quibble might call this HRTF. Either way it's a smoking tape.

location is everything!
Totally True. I had a good taping buddy who moved to Oregon and worked for Leonard at Sonic Studios. about 1992/3 they moved to Oregon. after then a few of us had pairs of DSM3's then a DSM6 pair was owned by one of us. If you had good location and a good PA those tapes (almost all into DAT) can be very sweet.
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