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Author Topic: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)  (Read 1105 times)

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Online heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2020, 02:42:23 PM »
I'm chiming in although I need to come back and edit more.
Rob, there is such a  thing as a "proper binaural" set of microphones. I wish Len had gone a bit more in detail (about the mic design itself) as he knows more about this than my psychoacoustic former hydrophone designer self. True Binaural technique uses capsules which are pressure "omnis" ## which are aimed upward into the ear canal, typically using a dummy head, but can be used on your own head.

Did I go too far when I said "binaural microphone" is a bit of a misonmer?  I'm certainly no expert, and I'd defer to those of you with more knowledge on the subject than I have (which is, let's be honest, pretty much everyone in this thread other than me).
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2020, 03:03:15 PM »
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Lucas- No, I just wanted to point out some designs are true binaural, but it more of a product thing than a design thing. There truly IS NOT one microphone CAPSULE which makes a set-up binaural, it is the whole rig:
1] using pressure capsules where one end is closed
2]  enabling them to be placed inside real or dummy ears and aimed upward into the pinnaae
3] recording into two channels with no external EQ etc.

In fact, to me, often it is playback methods which determine how well one enjoys their binaural recordings. Until I got decent headphones a few years ago I did not truly get as much out of the old binaural recordings as I knew were there. playback over speakers can have varied results.

heva- +T, that looks like a great set up!   ;D >:D
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 06:06:02 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E|DPA 4060 SK
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline heva

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2020, 03:24:18 PM »
heva- +T, that looks alike a great set up!   ;D >:D

Could be worse, check HERE (GS).

Offline RobBain

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2020, 04:02:35 PM »
Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Sony PCM-A10 | Sennheiser MKE 600 / LOM mikroUsi's / Clippy EM172s

Online heathen

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2020, 04:16:55 PM »
Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Something that just occurred to me is if you're at all DIY-inclined there were Sennheiser MKE2 mics that could be salvaged from some GoPro mic thing.  The GoPro things were getting sold super cheap, but I'm not sure if that deal is still out there.  I think it was $20 per mic.  I have no idea what shipping to Europe would be, but I've got extras and would sell you a pair for what I paid + actual shipping cost to you.  Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

Here's a thread about them: https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=189272.0
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2020, 07:37:02 PM »
The Gearslutz thread has errors. It conflates binaural recording for measurement and binaural recording for playback. Take it with a grain of salt.

---

One important thing to note is that if you're planning on playing back over on-ear headphones, you do not want to record at the eardrum. In that case, ideally you want to record at the entrance to a blocked ear canal. That way the microphone picks up the influence of the outer ear but doesn't hear the resonances of the ear canal.

A simple way to do that is to build the microphones into a silicone ear mold. The ear mold can be made by your local audiologist or use the kits from Decibullz or Radians.

If you mount the microphone near the entrance to the ear canal but slightly above or in front of it, the resonance of the ear canal can be neglected. That's how our clip-on binaural mic set are intended to be used. They sit in the shadow of the pinna, but not exactly at the ear canal entrance. Or, as I mentioned, you can build the High End Binaural capsules (DPA 4060-series) into custom ear molds.

---

If you record at the ear drum and play back at the entrance to the ear, you'll have to subtract out the ear canal response. That's not easy to do.

It makes sense to record at the ear drum only if you are doing measurements or are playing back using an in-ear phone that sits at the end of the ear canal, right next to the ear drum. Otherwise it's a bad idea.

---

Dummy heads have a single HRTF. The dummy's HRTF is literally wrong for everyone. If your personal HRTF is close to the dummy head's HRTF, you'll get a good effect. Otherwise you'll have serious problems distinguishing front from rear, and you'll have poor elevation (vertical) cues.

---

Hooke Audio's Verse is a low cost binaural recording solution. It has a pair of microphones built into in-ear phones. It records reliably via Bluetooth to smartphones. Other than having a relatively high self-noise spec, it's a good set of microphones for concert taping. I see three sets on eBay at the moment.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 08:07:50 PM by Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) »
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Offline beatkilla

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2020, 08:09:52 PM »
I have an awesome set that meets your needs here.

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=190764.0


Offline RobBain

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2020, 02:19:13 PM »
Hi all

I have just stumbled upon the 'Croakie' option (on this forum) so before doing/buying anything else I'll try that will my LOMs first - and see how I get on.

Again, thanks for all the great info provided in response to my original question.

Case closed (for now!).

Regards,

Rob

Thanks heva (and to all the others who took the time to reply).  Some great stuff in here!  Much appreciated.

I kept looking at Sennheiser's AMBEO Smart Headset.  The price point means that it could be bought just for fun.  But I was put off by the lightning connector.  Seemed a bit 'cheesy'.  Having read the posts, I'll save my money, wait until my mikroUSI's (eventually!) turn up and play/learn with those.

To be fair to LOM they've been very apologetic about my 5 week delay, pointing (I think fairly) to the reduced airfreight movements we currently have in Europe.  I still feel like a kid waiting for Christmas, though!

Thanks again,

Rob

Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Sony PCM-A10 | Sennheiser MKE 600 / LOM mikroUsi's / Clippy EM172s

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2020, 07:47:45 PM »
Have a look here: https://store.lom.audio/products/mikrousi?variant=6174830002208

My set, ripped a sports headset and put the LOM’s in it.
Use it with FR2le. Sound is awesome.
Great hacking !!

Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2020, 08:48:49 AM »
Just wanted to thank B9audio and Rocksuitcase for the links to their binaural recordings posted above.  Very much enjoyed some headphone listening last night through a new USB DAC/headphone amp I recently picked up in the yardsale.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Len Moskowitz (Core Sound)

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2020, 01:26:02 PM »
If you go to dimeadozen.org and type in the following search string, you'll see over 900 recordings made with our Core Sound Binaural and High End Binaural microphone sets. (There are actually many more there, but they're not searchable in that way.)

Type this in the "search" box: csb heb "core sound binaural" "coresound binaural" coresound "core sound"

Archive.org's Live Music Archive has a few hundred more.

---

You can see lots and lots of taper comments about our Core Sound Binaural Microphone Set here:

https://www.core-sound.com/mics/12.php

See taper comments about our High End Binaural Microphone Set (using DPA capsules) here:

https://www.core-sound.com/bk/10.php

And for the Low Cost Binaural Microphone Set:

https://www.core-sound.com/lcmics/11.php
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 09:56:20 AM by Len Moskowitz (Core Sound) »
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Offline lerond

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 04:44:37 AM »
The DPA d:vice connects directly to Iphone (unfortunately not Andrioid compatible) for use with their microphones.  It represents one of the most top quality (and very compact) setups currently available, applicable but not limited to HTRF type recording.

I've used the DPA d:vice with both Pixel3 and Nexus6 android phones.
Works fine in situations where I'm worried about carrying much more than a phone.
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Offline audBall

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 01:58:14 PM »
^ That's good to know. Is there a DPA android app, and can I ask what recording app have you've been using?

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2020, 04:01:05 PM »
there is not a DPA android app

all the app really does is select mono/dual mono/stereo, and HPF

there are a few apps android users have been using sucessfully that are mentioned in the thread

https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=181868.0
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Offline audBall

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Re: Binaural Recording (latest thinking from tapers?)
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2020, 04:16:14 PM »
Thanks, must have overlooked those in that thread.  I don't currently own an android phone/tablet so wasn't sure. 

 

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