Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: What to do what to do  (Read 1249 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
What to do what to do
« on: August 29, 2020, 05:45:41 PM »
So I think I fried my Tascam 680 by using the wrong AC power (I used my battery charger instead of the Tascam). I was getting a Sys Rom error, and now it powers on and records, but there is no gain on any of the inputs. Trying to figure out what to do.

A) Get it repaired (maybe, if Busman can do it)
B) Buy a new one (currently $379 on Amazon)
C) look at new options, maybe an F6 or a Sound Devices?

So looking for opinions. Are the new SD Mixpres all that and a bag of chips? How about the F6? Any other options I should look at? Repair the 680? Buy a new one?

Offline vanark

  • TDS
  • (29)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 7649
  • If you ain't right, you better get right!
    • The Mudboy Grotto - North Mississippi Allstar fan site
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2020, 09:23:41 PM »
If you have a problem relating to the Live Music Archive (http://www.archive.org/details/etree) please send an e-mail to us admins at etree(AT)archive(DOT)org or post in the LMA thread here and we'll get on it.

Link to LMA Recordings

Link to Team Dirty South Recordings on the LMA

Mics: Microtech Gefell M21 (with Nbob actives) | Church Audio CA-11 (cards) (with CA UBB)
Pres: <empty>
Recorders: Tascam DR-60D | Tascam DR-40 | Sony PCM-A10

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • (144)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4215
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2020, 01:55:37 PM »
I would not waste money repairing a 680!  Get a new deck I have been super happy with my Mixpre6.
Microtech Gefell m20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) or AKG ck61's & ck63's> Naiant Actives> Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

-22        -12         -6        TDS     
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][}   
]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]][} 
__________________________
|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2020, 10:53:35 PM »
Zoom F8 is as solid a choice as any.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline fsulloway

  • (23)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1726
  • Gender: Male
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 08:43:16 AM »
Definitely don't repair it. It would probably cost more than a new one and definitely more than a used one.
schoeps ccm4's, mk4v, mk2h, mk41
AKG ck62, ck63, ck61
Nbob/pfa, Naiant/pfa
oade m148
DR680, SD 10T

"Wilmington, North Carolina....Let us hear your motherf***in' pride!" Patterson Hood 12-09-04

"Just About Unwound From Chasing Down The Sound"

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 09:52:06 AM »
Thanks everyone. I'm considering my options. Right now I'm thinking either a MixPre6 or a Zoom F8N. My primary recording will be two track mix downs of my band from my mixing console, and secondary will be field recording, possibly doing matrixes with a board feed and a pair of MBHO mics.

Looking at the the SD and the F8N, I'd like input. FYI, one consideration for me is same as cash financing; I can get the Zoom with 24 months from Sweetwater, and the Sound Devices with 12 months from Amazon. It seems to me that the advantages of each are as follows:

Sound Devices: 32 bit float, power using Anker and only a USB C cable, possibly better sound
Zoom: 8 mic inputs

Anyone have any feedback on them? What are the power options for the Zoom?

Offline jerryfreak

  • (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
  • The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 10:01:58 AM »
having owned both first gen mixpre and now a zoom f6, i woudl say 32-bit float would be the last thing on my list to consider... it makes the least difference in resulting recording quality

both are good units... mix-pre is more 'pro' and might have better sounding preamps at a cost of more power consumption.

zoom offers more channels for same price and much wider SD card compatability

i like my zoom because it checks all my boxes (# of channels, power consumption, reliability)

i also used to have a 680 but its a relative dinosaur by todays standards... the mixpre and zoom preamps are much quieter than the tascam

People whose posts I wont see:
 capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62, Dr. Bickart

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 10:07:31 AM »
Thank you. How do you power the Zoom?

Offline jerryfreak

  • (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
  • The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 12:11:56 PM »
it runs forever on 4xAA + the sony l-series battery

USB available if needed
People whose posts I wont see:
 capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62, Dr. Bickart

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2020, 02:12:55 PM »
I'll play devils advocate with a couple other things to consider:

Price-
May or may not be a factor, but one simply cannot beat the cost of a new DR-680 for a 6 channel/preamp recorder.

Quality of the recordings-
The newer SDs and Zooms being discussed are great recorders you will be able to make great recordings with.  Will those recordings be better than those made using your DR-680?.. maybe but probably not significantly so.

Ease of use-
All of the newer recorders are more dependent on menu use, so consider your personal tolerance for that and how it relates to how you will work.  DR-680 is super easy to use and reconfigure, the others typically take more time to setup the way you want, and are more likely to have unnoticed settings "doing things".  The others generally provide more options for power users at the cost of more interface complexity.

Functionality-
DR-680 has digital in/out, and can  gang all channel gain controls together for simultaneous adjustment with a single knob while retaining individual channel gain offsets, meaning ganged channels don't all have to have the same gain <F8 can gang but all ganged channels must have the same gains.  Not sure about SD.


I went from 680 to F8, driven primarily by the need for 8 channels with preamps.  I power it using the same Tallentcell battery I picked up near the end of the time I was running the 680 regularly, which provides simultaneous 12V, 9V and USB (5V) outputs and lasts a full day or more of recording.  I sometimes miss the digital in/out (rarely), the ability to gang channels while retaining individual gain offsets (often), and the lack of individual channel outputs (often for me but probably won't matter to anyone else).  Other than those things, I love the F8.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 02:15:31 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2020, 03:33:58 PM »
Another advantage of the Zoom is the ability to use two SD cards for redundancy.  You'll pretty much never have to worry about a card crapping out on you (it's definitely happened with a MixPre-6, which only uses one card).
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2020, 04:18:18 PM »
I have two cards in my F8 but never having had any card problem with it I've settled into using just one at a time, the other there as an always available extra.  I think SD can do the same to an external USB stick but I'm not sure.  This may be more important in the SD case as there have been a considerable number of card problems reported.  Unless that's been addressed with a firmware update, I'd stick with a known reliable and personally tested card with the SDs.  I don't think twice about using a new card in my Tascams (DR-680, DR2d), Zoom F8 or Roland R-44 as long as its a reliable brand I use regularly and purchased from a reputable source.

[edited to strike unconfirmed hearsay]
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:16:46 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3097
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2020, 04:53:43 PM »
^ I can only recall a single user reporting SD card failures with the MixPres in real-world use (morst). As there are tons of users, with lots of different cards, I am not so sure this is really a concern. Of course, any card can fail in any machine at any time, so redundant cards are a definite plus, but, at least on an anecdotal level, this hasn't been much of a problem... 
People whose posts I won't see: jerryfreak. The probationary period didn't last long...

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2020, 05:14:24 PM »
OK good to know and I stand corrected.  For some reason I recall significant posting about generic cards not being reliable enough and which cards did and didn't work, but I don't have any personal experience with the SD MixPre recorders.

Writing simultaneously to two cards provides redundancy over card-level failure and its nice to have that option to cover what is a relatively common enough problem to justify it, especially when recording professionally with higher expectations. Doing so is only at the cost of an second card, a bit more processing and battery power to write to it, and the workflow of emptying it afterward, all of which are relatively trivial compared to loosing a recording.  So its a nice option to have.  Only note that it will not provide any redundancy over a failure of the recorder to correctly write the files.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2020, 05:18:09 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3097
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2020, 06:05:18 PM »
^ There were some "stress tests" (8 channels at 24/192 run until completion, or not, on a MixPre-6 version 1) which saw failures. In normal use, however, I don't recall hearing about any issues other than morst's (which sounds like it may have been due to defective cards). Those were also with the first version; reportedly, SD increased processing power in the second version and I haven't heard of any card problems at all.

All that said, I really would like a redundant card option...
People whose posts I won't see: jerryfreak. The probationary period didn't last long...

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2020, 06:37:41 PM »
^ I can only recall a single user reporting SD card failures with the MixPres in real-world use (morst). As there are tons of users, with lots of different cards, I am not so sure this is really a concern. Of course, any card can fail in any machine at any time, so redundant cards are a definite plus, but, at least on an anecdotal level, this hasn't been much of a problem...

It happened to BonoBeats at a show we both attended.  He was using a MixPre-6.  I'm not trying to say it's some sort of widespread problem, but only illustrating why redundant cards is a "pro" for the F8.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline jerryfreak

  • (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
  • The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2020, 07:39:04 PM »
^ There were some "stress tests" (8 channels at 24/192 run until completion, or not, on a MixPre-6 version 1) which saw failures. In normal use, however, I don't recall hearing about any issues other than morst's (which sounds like it may have been due to defective cards). Those were also with the first version; reportedly, SD increased processing power in the second version and I haven't heard of any card problems at all.

All that said, I really would like a redundant card option...

i didnt really hear of card problems with the first gen either... but testing broke nearly every one

less people have the second gen series, and im unaware of any extensive tests on cards yet, so i cant really assume the problem is solved, absent of evidence

People whose posts I wont see:
 capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62, Dr. Bickart

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3097
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2020, 04:32:10 AM »
It happened to BonoBeats at a show we both attended.  He was using a MixPre-6.  I'm not trying to say it's some sort of widespread problem, but only illustrating why redundant cards is a "pro" for the F8.

Absolutely, as I mentioned in both of my previous posts. It's too bad the MixPres, and the F6 for that matter, don't have a second card slot.
People whose posts I won't see: jerryfreak. The probationary period didn't last long...

Offline jerryfreak

  • (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 5512
  • The plural of anecdote is not data
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2020, 04:41:43 AM »
F6 is rock solid with every card ive tried. cant break it at max bitrate. it even has a built-in card testing feature in the menu

if you really needed a backup you could go usb-out to iphone with it as well (48K max)
People whose posts I wont see:
 capnhook, daspyknows, Melanie, morst, Rob D., Scooter123, Sloan Simpson, Walstib62, Dr. Bickart

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2020, 10:38:39 AM »
Thanks everyone. I ordered an F8N. Any power recommendations? Which Talentcell and which connector cable?

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 11:00:41 AM »
Thanks everyone. I ordered an F8N. Any power recommendations? Which Talentcell and which connector cable?

I use this one, and the power cable that came with it or my F8 (I can't remember which it is): https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 12:58:50 PM »
Thanks everyone. I ordered an F8N. Any power recommendations? Which Talentcell and which connector cable?

I use this one, and the power cable that came with it or my F8 (I can't remember which it is): https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1

How many hours can you get running it with the preamps on?

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 01:16:54 PM »
The one Heathen linked above is also what I'm using, as outlined in reply to your PM yesterday when I couldn't remember the exact model.  Just popped in here to post the same link.

Although I've never run it down fully to measure total run-time, it runs my F8 with phantom on all 8 channels for longer than I need.. an entire music festival day or more.  I use two of them in rotation for such events and swap between them one day to the next.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Candace

  • (1)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 99
  • I'm a llama!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2020, 01:22:56 PM »
Thank you everyone.

What Hirose adapter should I use? One of the Alvin cables?

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2020, 02:32:26 PM »
How many hours can you get running it with the preamps on?

I've literally never even come remotely close to draining it.  If anything, the battery is probably overkill for me.  (To be clear, though, I haven't done something like having phantom on all preamps for an entire 12+ hour festival day.  I think the most I've run at once is 6 preamps, but a normal show with that many channels running didn't put a dent in the battery.)
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2020, 03:25:09 PM »
^ Many users will do fine by with a battery with less capacity.  If you don't need extremely long run times, form factor may be more important with regards to how well everything fits in the recording bag.

Things may have changed a bit since I ordered my Talentcells, but at the time there were basically two or three basic case sizes and they offered several different battery capacities in each.  The one linked above was (is?) the highest capacity in that particular form factor at that time (one could order the same size case with less capacity at a bit less cost).  It's about as thick as the F8 is tall.

The next case size down is popular with many TS members running smaller recorders, and is likely to run a F8 for I'd guess 6-8hrs (this is a total guess).  It's looks to be the same length and width but is half the height - similar in size to a small external USB powered HHD.


Ted has long been a good go to for power cables as well as audio cables.  Unfortunately, the link David posted above is dead.  I looked briefly but was unable not find the thread Ted was maintaining which indicates power connection requirements for most of the equipment used by tapers (not sure if its the same thread linked above or not).  Hopefully is not lost as it has been a great resource to TS.

I was able to reuse the same power cord between the Talentcell and F8 that I had been using with one of my DR-680s.  I just can't remember if it was the DR-680mk1 or mk2 which use different sized connectors (owned both models).  This powers it via the coaxial wall adapter port rather than the hirose connector.  That connection does not lock, but I keep 8 lithium AA's in the recorder as backup, which never get drained as long as the external battery is supplying power or the AC adapter is used.  Lithiums keep it light weight, retain charge for years if not used, and don't seem to leak nastiness like dead alkalines can.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2020, 03:32:13 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2020, 03:58:48 PM »
^ Actually it could be the power cabling that came along with the battery, a Y + straight cable.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3097
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2020, 04:43:16 PM »
 ^^ Lee, are you looking for this thread from Ted? It’s stickied at the top of the Remote Power board.
People whose posts I won't see: jerryfreak. The probationary period didn't last long...

Offline heathen

  • (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3204
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2020, 04:52:32 PM »
I'm pretty sure this is what I use and I've never had an issue with it: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1353406-REG/zoom_dhc_1_dc_to_hirose_cable.html

The custom cable I got from Ted, however, didn't fit quite as snugly so I didn't end up using it more than once or twice.
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • (15)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 13860
  • Gender: Male
  • Gunther Theile nailed it!
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2020, 07:13:18 PM »
Yes, thank you Aaron!

Quote
Zoom F8 (Hirose Port on the Side) / 9-16v / 4-pin Hirose connector / pin 4 for (+) pin 1 for (-)
Zoom F8 (DC Port on the Back) / 12v / Size M, 5.50mm OD × 2.10mm ID / Center pin (+)  Ring (-)
F8N is unchanged in this regard

The DC port connector on F8 is the same size as the 12VDC output port of the Talentcell:

Quote
DC5521 12V/6A max.

^ "DC5521" = 5.50mm OD × 2.10mm ID = size "M"
Polarity is the same on both ends (center +)


Although the listing does not indicate the actual size, the hirose cable heathen linked above presumably terminates to a female DC5521 connector as it appears to be designed to work with the Zoom AC adapter.  It's snap-shut case around the in-line connection presumably provides some degree of "lock" when snapped shut.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Scooter123

  • "I am not an alcoholic. I am a drunk. Drunks don't go to meetings."
  • (9)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1994
Re: What to do what to do
« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2020, 12:17:51 AM »
I also own the F8.  Its a good solid machine, but a little noiser than the 680.  I'm not wild about Zoom Products, but the F8 is at the top of the food chain.  It is powered by internals and depending on how many channels, sound checks, and the like, you may be able to get a full long show in.  I use any 12v power brick.  The input is a type M barrel connection. 

I got custom input cords made with a 90 degree bend on the inputs. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.091 seconds with 59 queries.
© 2002-2020 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF