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Author Topic: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?  (Read 1078 times)

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Offline justink

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32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« on: September 18, 2020, 01:23:03 AM »
I've got my 32bit float/48khz files.  I want to export them out of Audacity and ultimately flac them in xACT.  To keep the 32bit float files intact in case I want to use them down the road.  Is that possible? 

Or do I need to get them down to 24bit/48khz first?

And if that's the case, what's the best way to go about doing that?

This 32bit is a whole new world to me and xACT seems to be choking on them when I put them in the encode tab.
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2020, 01:30:51 AM »
w64 is the only way i know to save large polywavs like when you stitch all the short 2gb segments back to full sets. a 6ch 24/96 can be over 10gb per set, but the 64bit file doesn’t even blink. i’ve been using .w64 since the early days of laptop taping where the recorded file size exceeded the 32-bit wav files limit.

note that when i say 32 bit and 64 bit in that context it’s not audio bit depth, but maximum file size based on 2^32 and 2^64 (iirc...)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 09:44:14 AM by jerryfreak »
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Offline morst

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2020, 03:21:29 AM »
I've got my 32bit float/48khz files.  I want to export them out of Audacity and ultimately flac them in xACT.  To keep the 32bit float files intact in case I want to use them down the road.  Is that possible? 
This 32bit is a whole new world to me and xACT seems to be choking on them when I put them in the encode tab.
xACT doesn't work to FLAC encode 32 bit files.


If I get stuck with one, I just archive it as a WAV.
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Offline voltronic

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2020, 06:11:10 AM »
I use Foobar2000 to convert my 32fp/48k WAVs to FLAC.  Never an issue.
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Offline EmRR

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2020, 12:39:29 PM »
I use Foobar2000 to convert my 32fp/48k WAVs to FLAC.  Never an issue.

Does that convert back to a 32fp WAV?  I guess it must? 
Mics: DPA 4060 w/MPS 6030 PSU/DAD6001/DAD4099, Neumann KM 131, KMR 81i, Oktava MK 012, Sennheiser MKH 105, MKH 20, MKH 30, MKH 40, MKH 800 TWIN, lots of other studio appropriate choices
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Offline voltronic

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2020, 04:32:24 PM »
I use Foobar2000 to convert my 32fp/48k WAVs to FLAC.  Never an issue.

Does that convert back to a 32fp WAV?  I guess it must?

Sure does.  Besides being my main music player, Foobar with SoX resampler (when resampling is needed) is my Swiss army knife of file format conversion.  I have several converter profiles saved for the operations I do often.
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Offline lpmaskman

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2020, 07:40:38 AM »
Wavpack.That can handle floating point wavs.

Offline Gordon

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2020, 08:43:45 AM »
hmm.  I was using foobar to flac my 24/48 poly (tlh wouldn't work) but seem to recall issues with 32bit stuff so I've just been saving as wav.  maybe they had an update to support it.....


Edit: we may not be talking about poly wave here...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 11:15:58 AM by Gordon »
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

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Offline justink

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2020, 06:56:02 PM »
I should clarify.

If I:

- import the poly wave into audacity

- create stereo tracks from ISO left and right

- normalize

- trim the fat at beginning and end

I still want to keep these cleaned up 32fp/48 files as flac.

1.) What options should I choose when exporting from audacity - this is my main question, lots of header options/signed/unsigned

2.) What app (macOS) could flac them?
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline heathen

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2020, 11:36:05 AM »
Are the original, raw files from your recorder in 32 bit?
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Offline justink

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2020, 12:00:44 PM »
Are the original, raw files from your recorder in 32 bit?

yes.

but they have extended uneeded record time in front and back, and they're also not stereo tracks. 

So i want to trim, make stereo, and label source (big one, don't want to forget what mic was what when running six mics) on the file before archiving.
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline morst

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2020, 02:31:51 PM »
- normalize
I still want to keep these cleaned up 32fp/48 files as flac.
Why normalize 32 float? Are you converting to 32 signed integer?
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Offline justink

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2020, 06:09:48 PM »
- normalize
I still want to keep these cleaned up 32fp/48 files as flac.
Why normalize 32 float? Are you converting to 32 signed integer?

Recorded in 32bit float/48khz.

Converting/exporting to 24bit/48khz. 

And I tend to run hot.  So, normalize to bring below zero before exporting to 24/48.

This 32bit float is all new to me, so i'm probably doing it wrong.  lol
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2020, 06:32:55 PM »
If not normalizing prior to storing the files you have good reason to store your in-process work at 32bit FP, however if normalizing prior to storing, 24bit losses nothing.. except random noise in the least significant bits.  Technically the editing software should dither as a first step whenever truncating to a shorter bit-length.
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Offline justink

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2020, 07:47:23 PM »
If not normalizing prior to storing the files you have good reason to store your in-process work at 32bit FP, however if normalizing prior to storing, 24bit losses nothing.. except random noise in the least significant bits.  Technically the editing software should dither as a first step whenever truncating to a shorter bit-length.

yeah... I was wanting to normalize/trim/24bit/flac to save space.  but i can see the advantage of storing/archiving the original 32bit FP files as well, so I was wondering if there was a way to flac those so as to not have 17gb for one show (8 channels).

to the bold, i would hope so, but idk if audacity does. 

i'm basically trying to figure out a whole new workflow with the new advantage of 32bit.  and i'm not sure what to do yet. 

what's everyone else do?

right now i'm doing this:

Adding a txt file to name the source for the polywave file (just in case i want to revisit for later).  I ended up only using one pair of mics and the sbd for this mix. and naming the files as master with parts (p01, p02...)

https://imgur.com/a/Fard9Or

but that's almost 18gb...

if anyone has a better idea, i'm all ears.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 09:16:48 PM by justink »
Mics:
DPA 4023 (Cardioid)
DPA 4028 (Subcardioid)
DPA 4018V (Supercardioid)
Earthworks TC25 (Omni) 

Pres and A/D's:
Grace Design Lunatec V3 (Oade ACM)
Edirol UA-5 (bm2p+ Mod)

Recorders:
Sound Devices MixPre10 II
Edirol R-44 (Oade CM)
Sony PCM‑M10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2020, 01:27:47 PM »
to the bold, i would hope so, but idk if audacity does.

Not sure how much dithering when truncating to 24bit actually matters if the noise floor of the recording is well above the 24 bit truncation depth.  Whatever the noise floor, normalizing raises it by the same amount as it raises the signal, so there should remain plenty of dynamic range room available for both.

Similar conversation going on presently on page 2 of this thread- 48 KHz vs 44.1 KHz sample rate
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2020, 02:30:58 PM »
When I use Audacity, I have it set to NOT copy files into the project directory. I point my Audacity sessions to the relevant file inside my "Digital-Audio-Originals-FOLDER"
Saving the Audacity projects does't require much drive space, unless there are processed versions stored.



If I were recording lots of channels in polywav, I would consider naming the tracks in the recorder so that the polywav had tracks named for their sources.
I believe this can all be typed in to a SD mixpre by using a mobile device, paired via bluetooth using the Wingman app.
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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2020, 02:54:16 PM »
I do that with the F8, and get a little smile when I glance at the meters.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2020, 03:11:27 PM »
I do that with the F8, and get a little smile when I glance at the meters.

This blew my mind...I didn't know it's possible.  I'll have to dig into the F8 manual to investigate.   :o
Mics: AT4050ST | AT4031 | AT853 (C/SC) | Line Audio CM3 | Sennheiser e614 | Sennheiser MKE2 | DPA 4061 | CA-14 omni Pres: CA9200 | DPA d:vice Decks: Zoom F8 | Roland R-05

Offline Gordon

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2020, 09:14:00 AM »
I use Foobar2000 to convert my 32fp/48k WAVs to FLAC.  Never an issue.

I just tried this again and my flac is a 24bit file!  I tried output bit depth on auto and on 32bit.  Dither is set to never.  Both settings resulted in a 24bit file from my original 32bit float.
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

https://archive.org/details/fav-gordonlw

Offline Gordon

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Re: 32 Bit Float files... How do you archive them?
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2020, 11:37:05 AM »
Wavpack.That can handle floating point wavs.

can this do flac?  playing around with it and it compressed to .wv with no option for flac.  googling and reading up now but haven't found anything yet.

Easy enough to just convert to .wv though.  I tested by converting a 32bf stereo file and then converted back to wav.  audio properties are identical!  now to test a poly wav...

edit:  works perfect on poly wav as well!
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:03:58 PM by Gordon »
Microtech Gefell M20 or M21 > Nbob actives > Naiant PFA > Sound Devices MixPre-6 II

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