Building a full 007 taping rig from scratch in 2022

[opsopcopolis]

I didn't say least expensive was unknown shit gear

I had a whole thing typed up, but you're (whether purposefully or not) restating the same contradiction over and over and clearly not taking my point, which is:

Expensive =/= better for concert taping and it bugs me seeing people saying "crappy" mics, and "buy the best you can afford." It's not necessary, insulting, and hurts the already ailing scene.

[NSL]

the same taper with schoeps, Neumanns, dpas, gefells, etc is going to turn out a better result than with church audio, line audio, or $12 Panasonic caps.  \

No

[grawk]

the same taper with schoeps, Neumanns, dpas, gefells, etc is going to turn out a better result than with church audio, line audio, or $12 Panasonic caps.  \

No

Ok, cool.  Any examples?

[opsopcopolis]

the same taper with schoeps, Neumanns, dpas, gefells, etc is going to turn out a better result than with church audio, line audio, or $12 Panasonic caps.  \

No

Ok, cool.  Any examples?

You have some? "Better" is subjective.

[jefflester]

OP, regarding your original question:

Since his location may not be optimal (under PA and existence of fills unknown), suggest that you loan him one of your setups as a proof of concept. Perhaps omnis > bb > easy to operate recorder. Spend some time showing him how to rig & record and encourage him to practice until he's got it down.

Good suggestion, except OP doesn't actually even know the potential taper (and may even live in another country), so not sure how well that would work out. Sounds like it was more of a cold call.

[Scooter123]

I'd have the unknown taper do what I did and make up his own mind what microphones sound best to him.  Borrowing gear is probably the best choice, but absent that, downloading bands and shows you like and seeing what kind of microphone-preamp rig it was will provide some good data. 

Death Metal arena shows will probably involve a different mike set up than a folk act at your local club. 

Whatever sounds good to the unknown taper is what matters. 

[dyneq]

OP, regarding your original question:

Since his location may not be optimal (under PA and existence of fills unknown), suggest that you loan him one of your setups as a proof of concept. Perhaps omnis > bb > easy to operate recorder. Spend some time showing him how to rig & record and encourage him to practice until he's got it down.

Good suggestion, except OP doesn't actually even know the potential taper (and may even live in another country), so not sure how well that would work out. Sounds like it was more of a cold call.

Thanks, I didn't realize he was in a different area.

[fandelive]

OP, regarding your original question:

Since his location may not be optimal (under PA and existence of fills unknown), suggest that you loan him one of your setups as a proof of concept. Perhaps omnis > bb > easy to operate recorder. Spend some time showing him how to rig & record and encourage him to practice until he's got it down.

Good suggestion, except OP doesn't actually even know the potential taper (and may even live in another country), so not sure how well that would work out. Sounds like it was more of a cold call.

Thanks, I didn't realize he was in a different area.

Yep, that's the case. Anyway, great suggestion!!

[Dan33185]

This thread still reeks of the "if you don't spend a ton of money your tapes will sound like shit" circle jerk attitude that I hate about this place sometimes. Buy whatever mics you want, find the best spot and make a great tape. Way to make me feel lesser than. Goddamn

It's a big reason why I joined here and then didn't post for a long time, it was intimidating reading how much people were spending compared to what I was and the equipment I had. I reached a point in my life (age and maturity) where I stopped caring so much what people thought and started posting. There is still a feeling of superiority from some, but for the most part, I think people here are just trying to help others get the best results. Now, that being said, I've compared recordings I've made against other tapers and looked up the price of all the equipment they used. Some of the recordings sounded better, but I'll be honest, they didn't sound 2,000 dollars better. It really comes down to location, the board mix, and the crowd around you. Even the best equipment will have a recording ruined by an unruly crowd, and equipment on the cheaper end can produce fantastic results in the right condition. My motto is, better for it to exist than not, and I do the best I can to make the best quality recording I can given my budget.

[unidentified]

The law of diminishing returns is also very much at work here. A microphone that costs 10 times more than another will not necessarily sound 10 times--or even twice--as better as the less expensive one, if that. In any event, Opsopcopolis's many many fine recordings speak for themselves and for his skill in using them. To quote Grand Moff Tarkin, this bickering is pointless.

[unidentified]

This thread still reeks of the "if you don't spend a ton of money your tapes will sound like shit" circle jerk attitude that I hate about this place sometimes. Buy whatever mics you want, find the best spot and make a great tape. Way to make me feel lesser than. Goddamn

It's a big reason why I joined here and then didn't post for a long time, it was intimidating reading how much people were spending compared to what I was and the equipment I had. I reached a point in my life (age and maturity) where I stopped caring so much what people thought and started posting. There is still a feeling of superiority from some, but for the most part, I think people here are just trying to help others get the best results. Now, that being said, I've compared recordings I've made against other tapers and looked up the price of all the equipment they used. Some of the recordings sounded better, but I'll be honest, they didn't sound 2,000 dollars better. It really comes down to location, the board mix, and the crowd around you. Even the best equipment will have a recording ruined by an unruly crowd, and equipment on the cheaper end can produce fantastic results in the right condition. My motto is, better for it to exist than not, and I do the best I can to make the best quality recording I can given my budget.

Concur.

[MakersMarc]

the same taper with schoeps, Neumanns, dpas, gefells, etc is going to turn out a better result than with church audio, line audio, or $12 Panasonic caps.  \

No

This is ridiculous. Spend a couple of hundred bucks on Churchies>Churchie pre>deck and you can make OK tapes. That's what I made when I had a pair. That's it. Ok is fine, but please don't pretend that every time, top shelf mics in the same spot won't destroy the Church rig. Find me one example otherwise.

[Scooter123]

Does a Martin Guitar sound better than a Yamaha? 

Does a dry aged prime steak taste better than a grocery store variety?

Does a Nikon SLR 20mp with a CMOS processor take better pictures than a cell phone?

Is it worth it to buy a Martin, a dry aged prime steak, or a Nikon SLR?  To some, yes.  To others, not. 

Choices, Budget, and Priorities are all in play here.  A casual photographer on a budget would opt for a cell phone.  A serious photographer, even on a severe budget, would sacrifice anything for a nice Nikon SLR.  The choice of any taper is similar.  How often will you tape?  How good do you want your recordings?  What is your station in life, unemployed or a medical professional? 

Sweetwater has a very comprehensive review of nearly every microphone based on the use (kick, guitar cabinet, vocals, bass, choir, cymbals, vocals podcast etc) 

https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/the-ultimate-shootout-roundup/?mrkgadid=1000000&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gdsa&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=insync&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=39700070910208954&lid=39700070910208954&ds_s_kwgid=58700005287210068&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9073456&creative=368676154748&targetid=dsa-1677853388074&campaignid=1503606222&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8O-VBhCpARIsACMvVLMcIZFE_zhVWnWgwTEnCYweIq_hAQXh_h_LwdM1XNpOkVD60Dk1WeIaAiU3EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[MakersMarc]

I know I'm an asshole, but i hate when someone posts Zoomie audio of, say, Dead Company. And the ticket was like $250. For fucks sake, if you can buy that ticket you can buy mics. Even cheap ones is better than a Zoomie. Pissing in the gene pool.

[opsopcopolis]

I know I'm an asshole, but i hate when someone posts Zoomie audio of, say, Dead Company. And the ticket was like $250. For fucks sake, if you can buy that ticket you can buy mics. Even cheap ones is better than a Zoomie. Pissing in the gene pool.

I don't necessarily disagree that it's unnecessary, especially in the context of dead and co, who release all their shows and probably get some of the highest numbers of tapers of any bands, but if I saw a zoom internals tape of a band that never gets taped, I'd be happy that tape was made. If you shit on a tape just because it was made with "sub par" gear, no matter the context, then you've gone waaaay beyond the heart/intention of the scene IMO.

This is ridiculous. Spend a couple of hundred bucks on Churchies>Churchie pre>deck and you can make OK tapes. That's what I made when I had a pair. That's it. Ok is fine, but please don't pretend that every time, top shelf mics in the same spot won't destroy the Church rig. Find me one example otherwise.

Destroy how? My point is you can't really quantify that difference. What makes it better for you? Audio is subjective

How often will you tape?  How good do you want your recordings?  What is your station in life, unemployed or a medical professional? 

Jesus Christ, I'm happy you're rich, but this is EXACTLY my point. I don't feel the need to upgrade everything I own just because I make more money than I did 10 years ago.