Topic: ZOOM M2 M3 M4 MicTrak Recorders - 32 bit float dual ADC one-piece devices

[Ozpeter]

I have to say that those who have reported purchase of the M4 (and in general the M2 & M3) seem to be very happy with these devices, which makes them a very worthwhile bargain at the moment, unless the form factor just wouldn't work for you. 

As for mic suspensions, I think the problem with all such devices is that as the capsules weigh hardly anything, and  therefore they have no inertia, a functioning suspension between the capsule and the body would have to be incredibly flexible and probably therefore not very robust.  I don't recall any hand held recorder being famous for its low handling noise, although some get complained about more than others - low end devices possibly being used by people not used to simply having to keep their hand immobile relative to the device.  The shiny surface on the M series devices was intended to reduce handling noise by being slippery, but of course then you have to be careful not to drop it....

Anyway I look forward to your next video!

[adrianb]

With the Zoom M4 under $150 on fleabay now I decided to give one a try. So far I am very happy I did.  No RF issues and much less handling noise than I expected.  As soon as I got it I started taking it apart. I needed to see what the mic setup was like under the cover. Not what I expected.  Here is a video if anyone cares. Zoom M4 onboard mics exposed.  I Will make a few more with the M4 soon.

Thanks for the video. It has actually convinced me to pick up a cheap M4 on eBay. I’ve also read reports online that the capsules are the same as those used in the Sony D100 which is encouraging.

I really don’t like the form factor of this at all. I dislike the design of most Zoom products, but this one looks very odd. I will probably have to hide it in a case when I use it!

I expect the wind noise will be a problem, as it is with my Sony D100, but if I use omni mics simultaneously in the XLR inputs I can imagine this unit being a very useful addition to my collection.

[Niels]

I’ve also read reports online that the capsules are the same as those used in the Sony D100 which is encouraging.
...

Adrian, do you recall the source of that claim? The capsules on the M4 should be fairly easy to ID as they are basically mounted naked under the removable grille. I have never seen a D100 under the hood, though.

Many design choices of the M4 are a bit puzzling. I thought the rationale behind them would become apparent when I started using it, but not so far.
Still a killer recorder for what I paid - but not for stealth.

[adrianb]

Adrian, do you recall the source of that claim? The capsules on the M4 should be fairly easy to ID as they are basically mounted naked under the removable grille. I have never seen a D100 under the hood, though.

I first read the claim made in the comments in this video. A video that also helped me decide to buy one, the low noise stereo  capabilities of the M4 and built in mics seem to be on a par with the D100.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WjUcZYVfNJQ

I read the claim made elsewhere but have been unable to find that.

[Ozpeter]

Regarding the form factor of the M4; the M2 and M3 are of course just mics that record.  And that's what they look like (well, some types and brands look like that). A plus of the design is that if used for live recording on a stand, the audience just see a mic but not a glowing display or flashing LEDs.  The M4 follows the same rationale - a mic that records - but with the option of connecting external mics, as a second use case.  I think there are other mics that record out there from some years back and they have a similar form factor - but no inputs.

[Niels]

Both M2 and M3 makes sense. The ting with the M4 is the XLR input placement and the fact it has TimeCode intended for video. It is not suited for mounting on a video camera nor for putting in a bag (with mounted xlr mics).

[rastasean]

I'm waiting for the ebay seller to ship out the M4 I ordered earlier this week; hopefully I'll have it a week from today.

The video above of the birds flying around is a nice soundscape. I wouldn't have thought the flutter of their wings would be so noticeable/audible. 

[ICatchSounds]

I’ve also read reports online that the capsules are the same as those used in the Sony D100 which is encouraging.
...

Adrian, do you recall the source of that claim? The capsules on the M4 should be fairly easy to ID as they are basically mounted naked under the removable grille. I have never seen a D100 under the hood, though.

Many design choices of the M4 are a bit puzzling. I thought the rationale behind them would become apparent when I started using it, but not so far.
Still a killer recorder for what I paid - but not for stealth.

The capsules are not easy to see once the cover is off.  They are inside a cage that is glued into the rubber suspension mounts. I could not see the numbers or letters on the capsules without taking them apart. https://youtu.be/m4ZFEJHft1s

[Niels]

OK. I'll consider the Sony D100 capsule theory as speculations for now.

It is not unlikely - of course.
The Sony M10 recorder used Primo EM172 so it is fair to assume that the D100 probably also used some commonly available capsules.

The M4 is likely utilising common parts as well.

[Niels]

The capsules are not easy to see once the cover is off.

I see. I thought I was seeing a capsule, not a cage in your video.
Did you measure the diameter?

[ICatchSounds]

The capsules are not easy to see once the cover is off.

I see. I thought I was seeing a capsule, not a cage in your video.
Did you measure the diameter?

They are between 12-15mm. Can't tell for sure because of the cage. I am leaning towards 14.6mm. That is the same size used in the H5 Studio. Primo makes a few 14.6mm caps.

[Niels]

It could be the Primo EM200 then  https://www.micbooster.com/datasheets/EM200.pdf

Very similar specs to those of the M4 published by Zoom

[rastasean]

This page reports the mics on the sony d100 are 15mm diameter, but that may also include the housing.
https://www.creativefieldrecording.com/2017/01/18/sony-pcm-d100-review-one-year-later/#Microphones

I'm not really interested in buying the d100, but there are several for sale sub $1000: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+pcm-d100
A few years ago they were harder to find an quite pricey

Back to talking about zoom m2/3/4...

Niels, were you able to put together some recordings you did back in May?

I did some close proximity recordings of very loud trains running over a metal bridge across Tama River (Kawazaki), both with the build in stereo mics and a DPA 4060, and both came out very good and detailed to my ears.
Also more subtle recordings of frogs along Jinzu River (Toyama) came out very good.

Regarding the form factor, without having it in hand, I can't say for sure how it all works out. Most recorders to have the xlr connectors adjacent to one another and not on opposite sides of the body, but this fella seems to have the right idea: https://old.reddit.com/r/fieldrecording/comments/1lo5fks/my_setup_with_zoom_m4_great_recorder/

I see Ozpeter made a similar comment in the post as well.

[Niels]

Niels, were you able to put together some recordings you did back in May?

Not really something presentable, but I could share a 2 min. sniplet directly out of the recorder with the build in mics that could be intersting for some.
It is taken from a static position and holds the range from frogs singing on the riverbed to trains running past nearby - and some city rumble in the background .
It is recorded by Tama River (Kawasaki, Tokyo metropolitan area) so a city recording - not nature but with a good range.
Lo-cut 80Hz was engaged. Normalized and exported to 24bit WAV in the recorder.

I don't usually share stuff publicly on the web so I don't know where to put it (30MB). Maybe I could put it on Google Drive? But I will need to space sometime, so it wouldn't be permanent. Any other ideas?

but this fella seems to have the right idea: https://old.reddit.com/r/fieldrecording/comments/1lo5fks/my_setup_with_zoom_m4_great_recorder/

I saw that. It is a good setup for some types of field recording.
A little ironic as Zoom is pitching the M4 to musicians and filmmakers. I guess that if placed on a stand on stage and used to record while filming as they show in their marketing, it is probably perfectly fine.

I really just needed a robust substitute for my iRig PreHD to get more use out of my XLR microphones, and the M4 does fulfils that purpose, if not perfectly, then perfectly given the price.

[adrianb]

It could be the Primo EM200 then  https://www.micbooster.com/datasheets/EM200.pdf

Very similar specs to those of the M4 published by Zoom

I did wonder that, but I have also wondered previously if the Sony D100 uses those capsules.

They are very decent capsules, and not cheap. If the Zoom M4 does use them it means that for the price I’ve paid on eBay I’ve almost got the recorder for nothing!