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Author Topic: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder  (Read 264441 times)

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Offline grawk

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #195 on: May 22, 2024, 10:19:41 AM »
Seems like that's not a useful feature anyway, if the pr2 will provide the PIP.  Just send output back to the transmitter without sending PIP forward

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #196 on: May 22, 2024, 10:57:48 AM »

Other than sufficient powering and SINAD to accommodate a pair of DPA CORE 4060 [the baseline go/no-go performance metric for me], the critical functionality for my use will be if two or three of them can be sufficiently sync'd and controlled while in pocket, using the software below or something equivalent to it installed on my phone..

metarecorder can do this but not elegantly, via its master/slave mode. they are all clocked independently though, same as the deity PR2s would presumably, as time code sync is not the same as word clock.

not elegant because you need a separate phone for each 2 channels. i think only the teenage engineering unit that hoserama runs fits your bill but thats a monster with a price to match

Right. I've no interest in recording to 2 or 3 separate phones, which I could do using DPA d:vice.  I was long hoping for some way of connecting 2 or 3 d:vice's to a single phone.  Or a follow up d:vice version that featured a card slot able to recorded locally, but with collective control over several.  The speculative strategy of recording using 2 or 3 PR-2's that are collectively controlled by a single phone is based on that.  Nice to have the storage local, only remaining problem if that works is clock-sync.

Non-fully sync'd clocks is unfortunate, yet hopefully easily manageable, which is the key to this working as envisioned.  Yes timecode is not wordclock.  The difference between frame rate and sample rate is around 2 orders of magnitude!  However, I've found modern clock chips, especially in gear which features timecode to free-run with a quite tight tolerance, particularly when its the same chip in identical recorders.  I'm holding out hope the drift will be minimal, perhaps inconsequential over the course of one set of music.
^
Getting into the weeds on this a bit- In one potential arrangement I'd need 5 channels total, 3 of which need be closely phase-correlated.  One way of checking / assisting alignment is using the pass-thu feature to duplicate one channel from the first recorder which is recording two mic inputs to one channel of the second recorder that's only recording one mic.  The duplicate track can then be used to confirm sync, and if necessary assist with stretching in a very accurate way (invert phase and sum with the duplicate, alignment achieves deepest null).  I've done that a couple times using two four-channel DR2d's to record 6 channels by routing the headphone out from the first recorder to one of the two stereo inputs on the second recorder, duplicating that pair between the two recorders.  Technically this incurred a very slight but constant latency offset due to the DA/AD step between the first to second recorders.  But that wasn't a problem, and if it were it would be easily measurable and would not change.  Of course, I'm hoping that's unnecessary, but its a work around.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #197 on: May 22, 2024, 12:25:54 PM »
[snip..] The truth of the matter is that depending on the type of music you like, taping shows is too unpredictable for you to nail your gain settings for every part of the show. I can record a quiet song with no apparent preamp noise using a quality preamp's higher gain setting (EIN gets higher the higher gain you use); I can also record a louder song by dialling the gain down (EIN decreases, but this doesn't really matter because the signal is strong compared to the preamp's noise floor). What I can't do is use the low gain setting for BOTH sections of music (the only option we have when we don't know when they're coming), and expect the less-than-ideal staging for the quiet parts to sound good. Of course this is only really relevant if you're using compression or amplifying certain songs in post, but some bands really do get that loud AND that quiet, and it's a terrible experience to listen back without narrowing the dynamic range. [..snip]

In practice, I don't find the first part to be a constraint in my experience, yet fully agree that some content really needs a reduction in dynamic range to be enjoyably listenable.

Using the 4 X DPA_4060 > 4ch_CA-UGLY2 > Dr2d rig I mentioned, I find I can successfully use just two different gain settings on the preamp to accommodate everything I record, and don't need to switch between them during any single performance [edit- It did require some experimentation to determine those two settings, but one determined the two are all I need]. The higher gain setting is used for anything with an exceptionally low acoustic noise floor such as some classical music and small acoustic jazz performances, yet has still proven capable of accommodating highly dynamic full orchestra performances at point-blank range.  The lower gain setting I use for PA amplified concerts which almost always have a significantly higher ambient noise floor and do not suffer from the higher EIN, or when in close proximity to drum kits where the dynamic transients can be extreme making the additional headroom attractive.  That latter case is the one that could potentially be problematic, but fortunately I've still not had EIN exceed the ambient noise floor in any of my real-world situations.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2024, 12:30:35 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Billy Mumphrey

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #198 on: May 22, 2024, 01:17:40 PM »
Non-fully sync'd clocks is unfortunate, yet hopefully easily manageable, which is the key to this working as envisioned.  Yes timecode is not wordclock.  The difference between frame rate and sample rate is around 2 orders of magnitude!  However, I've found modern clock chips, especially in gear which features timecode to free-run with a quite tight tolerance, particularly when its the same chip in identical recorders.  I'm holding out hope the drift will be minimal, perhaps inconsequential over the course of one set of music.

I can confirm from experience that the modern clocks in the Zoom F Series appear to not drift apart; many times I've ran a F6 onstage and an F3 in the audience and every single time I've inserted those into multitrack software, it only requires syncing up the 2 independent sources at the beginning, usually the very first snare hit of the show. Then I scroll to the end of the show, and sure enough to my amazement, the final snare hit (or whatever) IS RIGHT ON THE MONEY. Even had a couple 4+ hour shows and same result. I couldn't believe it at first but I've done this 7-8 times now and every single one was drift-free.

I had one show where I ran an F6, F3, and F2 (mono) and all 3 independent sources didn't drift apart!

After hearing about Deity removing 32FP from stereo mode, I am going to try to acquire a 2nd F2 and run 2 of them for stereo >:D. Since the F2 is only 2.5v PiP, I plan on getting a cable like this:

https://www.amazon.com/CablesOnline-3-5mm-Stereo-Breakout-AM-603C/dp/B0759Z1QCP/ref=asc_df_B0759Z1QCP/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693461287397&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9649726971229560676&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9028778&hvtargid=pla-360555372916&psc=1&mcid=c9f4eaa0e00c3021bde9cf841429c5ab&gad_source=1

and running that out of a batt box and then into the 2 mono recorders. I'll probably start the recorders at home or in the car, clap or dog-click to give me an initial peak to line-up, and then do it once more after the show to confirm any drift. Even if it does drift, the claps/dog-clicks will allow a very simple and easy stretch. Lining up claps directly in front of your mics in a quiet car are VERY easy to work with compared to snare hits or drum-less performances.

I've only  >:D one show with my F2, a classical show, and I'll try to dig it up later tonight if anyone wants to hear the preamp. It's a Zoom F series, although it's sooo tiny (smaller than the PR-2?) I'm curious if it performs as well as an F3 etc.

The Zoom website says 15 hours on AAA alkalines, so I'm guessing 8-10 hours on rechargeables? I haven't tested it yet.
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Offline Psinka

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #199 on: May 22, 2024, 03:41:17 PM »
Deity PR2 vs Zoom F2 BT )))

Zoom F2 a little bit smaller but mono only 😢

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #200 on: May 22, 2024, 04:29:42 PM »
After hearing about Deity removing 32FP from stereo mode, I am going to try to acquire a 2nd F2 and run 2 of them for stereo >:D.

If you do, let us know how well that works.  Be aware that it can to be somewhat more of a challenge to split a single stereo pair across two recorders than it is to record two separate sources that will be mixed together to separate recorders.  At least some stereo pairs where maintaining tight phase correlation between the two channels is more critical, such as a coincident pair.  Should be less of an issue with a wide-spaced pair.

On the wide-pair front, that should make for a great wide-split stereo rig that uses a single mic + tiny recorder attached to the upper side balcony rail near the PA, with the same duplicated on the opposite side of the room/stage, with no wires between them.. an arrangement speculated about in some other recent threads (as well as some old ones).  Although it would be arguably even better to use two stereo recorders to do the same, with the second mic of each pair facing away from the PA and out into the room, so as to provide control over the ratio of direct PA sound verses ambient/reverberant/room afterward.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Billy Mumphrey

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #201 on: May 23, 2024, 11:28:52 PM »
Be aware that it can to be somewhat more of a challenge to split a single stereo pair across two recorders than it is to record two separate sources that will be mixed together to separate recorders.  At least some stereo pairs where maintaining tight phase correlation between the two channels is more critical, such as a coincident pair.  Should be less of an issue with a wide-spaced pair.

Yea I wondered about the lack of precision when lining up independent sources in post. Does it affect critical time arrival differences? I'm sure it does. Probably easier to just wait for the first micro stereo 32fp recorder. We'll see.

Thanks for the size comp pics.
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Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #202 on: May 24, 2024, 10:18:15 AM »
If anyone in Europe/Canada finds this for sale and it's the 32 bit stereo version, please post and I'll order one

Offline breakonthru

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #203 on: May 24, 2024, 01:28:22 PM »
If anyone in Europe/Canada finds this for sale and it's the 32 bit stereo version, please post and I'll order one
there is no 32-bit stereo version. only difference in US version is no PIP pass thru

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #204 on: May 24, 2024, 01:59:15 PM »
If anyone in Europe/Canada finds this for sale and it's the 32 bit stereo version, please post and I'll order one
there is no 32-bit stereo version. only difference in US version is no PIP pass thru

Oh, I thought it was said that the non-US versions did not change from original "specs". Thanks

Offline aaronji

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #205 on: May 24, 2024, 02:09:00 PM »
It's not entirely clear, at least to me. On the non-US version it says "Supports 24-bit and 32-bit float recording formats" at the top of the page and "32-bit Float Mono / 24-bit (Mono/Stereo)" under specs. The US version has the same line in the specs, but says "Supports 24-bit Stereo and 32-bit float Mono recording formats" at the top. So there is an error somewhere, but, barring any additional information, who knows where...

Offline grawk

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #206 on: May 24, 2024, 02:15:49 PM »
from the page today for the non-us version:

32-bit Float Mono / 24-bit (Mono/Stereo)

https://deitymic.com/products/pr-2/

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #207 on: May 24, 2024, 02:32:47 PM »
Yeah, a little spec confusion going around...

Psinka - can you verify if your version can record in 32 bit stereo?

Offline Psinka

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #208 on: May 24, 2024, 02:38:49 PM »
Yeah, a little spec confusion going around...

Psinka - can you verify if your version can record in 32 bit stereo?

I already test these: when you select 32bit channels goes to mono and no way to select stereo with 32bits.
32 bits accessible for mono only. Stereo can be recorded with 24bit only 🤷‍♂️

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Deity PR-2 Pocket Recorder
« Reply #209 on: May 24, 2024, 02:40:19 PM »
Yeah, a little spec confusion going around...

Psinka - can you verify if your version can record in 32 bit stereo?

I already test these: when you select 32bit channels goes to mono and no way to select stereo with 32bits.
32 bits accessible for mono only. Stereo can be recorded with 24bit only 🤷‍♂️

Thanks for confirming!

 

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