Topic: First rig suggestions - 90 year-old noob taper 😀

[Gutbucket]

^Something like the Tascam X6 is what I was thinking.  How good are the internal mics and noise level?
If he's comfortable with running it and wishes to go further, he can always additionally add your Vanguards or Line Audios.

[commongrounder]

I own the X8, which I know use the 14mm Primo EM200 series cardioid capsules. The X6 has smaller 10mm capsules, but assuming they are Primos they will still have quite good noise performance. The preamps for both the XLR and 3.5mm inputs on my X8 are excellent, and I have no reason to think the same circuits aren’t used in the X6. The X6 sound samples I’ve heard on-line are, to my ears, far superior to the Zoom H series recorders, from both a noise and general quality perspective. The X6 will have a lot of features our OP’s dad won’t have the need to use, but these machines are great for holding the previous settings through a power cycle, so it should always be ready to go once initially set up.

[robeti]

This is so cute! Hope your dad will record many shows for years to come!

[voltronic]

Thanks, Volt.

I've been gravitating towards the F3 on my own, and appreciate your perspective on noise floor.

I have a set of Vanguard V1 mics, haven't used them in 2 years, could 'store' them at my Dad's and stay under his $500 limit that way.

Issue is I'm worried that this becomes a rig that's too fiddly for him. As Gutbucket mentioned in his post, complexity is an issue with someone 90 years old...

But it would likely sound much better. If I were ok not having much room sound, I could put the omni caps on, have him close-mic, and set the balance in post. That'd eliminate a lot of the need for great placement.

Hmmm

The F3 is about the least fiddly thing you could use. Plug in external power bank (if recording a long time), plug in mics, turn on, press REC.

[kuba e]

If the internal microphones are not of good quality, an external xy stereo microphone can help with simplicity - it has one cable, simply to mount,  it is easily aimed between the musicians and the stereo width can be adjusted in post.

[fanofjam]

The F3 is about the least fiddly thing you could use. Plug in external power bank (if recording a long time), plug in mics, turn on, press REC.

Agree 100% with this suggestion at the $550 or so price point. 

Make it even less fiddly by plugging in the XLRs/mics and leaving them plugged in all the time.  This would be ideal with a set of XLRs with a light gauge cable... say similar to what nbob uses on his actives.  I could see my 88-yo Dad have trouble fiddling with locking XLRs at the venue, so I'd just set it up for him before he leaves for the show.  Just roll the mics/cables up with the recorder and stuff it all into a smallish Lowepro bag.  Unroll it and fly the mics wherever.  Turn the F3 on, hit record and he can take a two-hour nap. 

[Gutbucket]

^ That's an idea.  My concern with to jumping straight to the use of external mics doesn't involve any difficulty in using an F3 as recorder, but rather all the other stuff involved- setting up the mics in mounts on a stand in the right way, connecting and managing the cables, getting all that into the right position, not creating a trip hazard, all that jazz.

If you determine external mics and and F3 (or whatever) is the right answer, but want to avoid all those hassles, you might set everything up semi-permanently on a single mic-stand INCUDING the recorder, use a Shapeways mount that has no provision for changing mic angle or spacing (thus eliminating the possibility of any accidental change of mic config), and tie-wrap all the cables neatly to the stand.  Make it is so that he can just pull that contraption out of the closet, place it wherever, point it in the right direction and hit record.


FYI this is pretty much how I manage to run 8 channels of mics myself with quick easy setup and breakdown.  All the mics in the array remain attached and wired to the recorder at all times.  I walk in, assess the situation, put a stand down and attach the array to it (or attach low-foot or clamp), unfold/telescope the array, confirm that the mics are all oriented in the right directions, raise the stand and press record.  I can manage all that in about 60 seconds if really pressed for time.

[edit- Now if I could streamline the post work in a similar way..  ]

[checht]

If you determine external mics and and F3 (or whatever) is the right answer, but want to avoid all those hassles, you might set everything up semi-permanently on a single mic-stand INCUDING the recorder, use a Shapeways mount that has no provision for changing mic angle or spacing (thus eliminating the possibility of any accidental change of mic config), and tie-wrap all the cables neatly to the stand.  Make it is so that he can just pull that contraption out of the closet, place it wherever, point it in the right direction and hit record.

Got to this setup in my thinking as well. Perhaps with added complication of 2 mic stands, one w recorder mount. For this acoustic music in a small room, close positioning is helpful in producing a recoding with distinction between instruments. I worry that placing an x/y config centrally will smoosh everything together. At the same time, issues of complexity and safety around cables makes the single point more attractive. I may just take advantage of Ama return policy and try the H1 compared with my multi-mic setup and asses. Can return and go more complicated if that seems wortht the extra cost and complexity.

Very much appreciate everyone's help!

[DuctTaper42]

Got to this setup in my thinking as well. Perhaps with added complication of 2 mic stands, one w recorder mount. For this acoustic music in a small room, close positioning is helpful in producing a recoding with distinction between instruments. I worry that placing an x/y config centrally will smoosh everything together. At the same time, issues of complexity and safety around cables makes the single point more attractive. I may just take advantage of Ama return policy and try the H1 compared with my multi-mic setup and asses. Can return and go more complicated if that seems wortht the extra cost and complexity.

Very much appreciate everyone's help!

Instead of a second stand for the recorder, you could simply get a clamp like this
https://www.amazon.com/CAMVATE-Super-Clamp-Articulated-Thread/dp/B01N20RT82/ref=mp_s_a_1_7?crid=2SDBRDIXUB174&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.R6XEnds-JmXmmxMzJPyX4S4UW3hkblr1JE79CSzO7yp1b25BzIsMMLfCLajXdmUjKQp0NXewEPT7dmdAFXI2eprzfoQ-jCyQT4Kgh-3jKEKmGUiDvudFeVEvrm1-g0kqw6Ve2_jXlcwjCyYp-utJ1t8JyesYFefKSvdwfXq0rz7fmVvGaeWMyyic_6E_qSe8u5CwAhgKrhqFFUHIDJt0Ew.H0FxGNxr-eq_h8h7WMpbaOx-tlcfPi02Np1Xksa-qyc&dib_tag=se&keywords=camvate+clamp+1%2F4&qid=1717600571&sprefix=camvate+clamp+1%2F4%2Caps%2C201&sr=8-7
 screw the F3 onto it, then just clamp it straight to the stand. I have a couple of these (mine has a 5/8 thread for a mic holder but it unscrews to reveal the 1/4 thread) and the ball head has enough grip to support the F3 at whatever angle you need but for even simpler set up, the ball head can even be removed and underneath it is a 1/4 screw that fits the F3 so you can just have the recorder directly attached to the clamp without the ball head.

Microphone stand, F3 clamped to it, shapeways mount with CM4s (NOS or "hybrid" array seem well regarded by classical folks), and cables sized to go from recorder to mics with little to no slack, all just living on the stand would seem the simplest, best sounding option. If it's not always the same room or same arrangement of instruments he could likely just walk around until it sounds best to his ears and drop the stand there, hit record then hold, and walk away.  Some rechargeable AAs in the recorder and an external battery bank with a short cord stuffed in a small drawstring pouch (like a Crown Royal bag), and hang it off the T-handle of the clamp and he's good to go. If the stand will be placed where people may walk, perhaps a sand bag too.

I've run this exact set up (except I have a different mic bar and don't have short cables yet) and it worked a treat and sounds great. Your call if a lighting stand tripod or like an on-stage boom arm mic stand would be better but both will work. The boom arm stands are much more compact and the boom can just be left at vertical so he would just have to unscrew the tightening screw for the boom and raise it up.

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace/accessories/music?tag=line+audio

[checht]

^ yes.

This would be the simplest and most likely to succeed. Issue is that the room is smallish and there are lots of different combos of instruments.
Some times, close miking is the best choice, and requires that 2nd stand.

[Gutbucket]

Instead of a second stand for the recorder..

To clarify, Checht is talking about mounting both the recorder and a mic to the first stand, with the second mic mounted on a separate stand.  That retains most of the simplicity of the "everything pre-wired and attached to one stand" approach as only one mic cable needs to run between the two stands, while making it possible to position the mics closer to separate instruments.

[DuctTaper42]

Instead of a second stand for the recorder..

To clarify, Checht is talking about mounting both the recorder a mic to the first stand, with the second mic mounted on a separate stand.  That retains most of the simplicity of the "everything pre-wired and attached to one stand" approach as only one mic cable needs to run between the two stands, while making it possible to position the mics closer to separate instruments.

D'oh, you're right. Not sure how I missed that when I read it the first time