Topic: How to capture SBD recordings at shows?

[cajuntaper]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I taped 4 shows yesterday, and was lucky enough to get a board feed for all 4. 3 were in one location, the 4th was in another.

In all 4 gigs, the feed was XLR straight from the board into an H4N, and my gain for all of them was set well below clipping. But during the shows I noticed that instead of the bars moving with the sound, like the channel my mics were on, they were maxed out at the level I had set below clipping. I mentioned it to the first sound guy, but I haven't gotten many board feeds in the past, and I was glad enough to have the feed, I didn't want to question what he was doing, especially while he's trying to mix the show. But then the same thing happened at the second location.

Sure enough, I transfer the files today, and the board feeds are all clipped out and unlistenable. Is this a situation where there was too much gain on their end on the board output? Or is it something I have set wrong on my H4N?

I had just had my H4N replaced by Zoom bc of the rubberized coating degrading, and I'm not sure if I put all my settings back the way they were before, but I think I had everything right on my end.

Just trying to figure this out for future situations like this.

[roffels]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I taped 4 shows yesterday, and was lucky enough to get a board feed for all 4. 3 were in one location, the 4th was in another.

In all 4 gigs, the feed was XLR straight from the board into an H4N, and my gain for all of them was set well below clipping. But during the shows I noticed that instead of the bars moving with the sound, like the channel my mics were on, they were maxed out at the level I had set below clipping. I mentioned it to the first sound guy, but I haven't gotten many board feeds in the past, and I was glad enough to have the feed, I didn't want to question what he was doing, especially while he's trying to mix the show. But then the same thing happened at the second location.

Sure enough, I transfer the files today, and the board feeds are all clipped out and unlistenable. Is this a situation where there was too much gain on their end on the board output? Or is it something I have set wrong on my H4N?

I had just had my H4N replaced by Zoom bc of the rubberized coating degrading, and I'm not sure if I put all my settings back the way they were before, but I think I had everything right on my end.

Just trying to figure this out for future situations like this.

I don't have an h4n, but it sounds like it only has a mic in instead of a line-in, and the signal is too hot for your recorder. You can buy an attenuator for each XLR https://jennifervanelk.com/line-level-audio-clipping-with-the-zoom-h4-h4n-buy-an-attenuator/#:~:text=The%20Zoom%20H4%20and%20H4N,the%20worse%20it'll%20become.

[cajuntaper]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I taped 4 shows yesterday, and was lucky enough to get a board feed for all 4. 3 were in one location, the 4th was in another.

In all 4 gigs, the feed was XLR straight from the board into an H4N, and my gain for all of them was set well below clipping. But during the shows I noticed that instead of the bars moving with the sound, like the channel my mics were on, they were maxed out at the level I had set below clipping. I mentioned it to the first sound guy, but I haven't gotten many board feeds in the past, and I was glad enough to have the feed, I didn't want to question what he was doing, especially while he's trying to mix the show. But then the same thing happened at the second location.

Sure enough, I transfer the files today, and the board feeds are all clipped out and unlistenable. Is this a situation where there was too much gain on their end on the board output? Or is it something I have set wrong on my H4N?

I had just had my H4N replaced by Zoom bc of the rubberized coating degrading, and I'm not sure if I put all my settings back the way they were before, but I think I had everything right on my end.

Just trying to figure this out for future situations like this.

I don't have an h4n, but it sounds like it only has a mic in instead of a line-in, and the signal is too hot for your recorder. You can buy an attenuator for each XLR https://jennifervanelk.com/line-level-audio-clipping-with-the-zoom-h4-h4n-buy-an-attenuator/#:~:text=The%20Zoom%20H4%20and%20H4N,the%20worse%20it'll%20become.

That is probably exactly what happened. Thanks! I had no idea that was an issue with a line level feed. Appreciate the tip. 

[joeldotc]

Correct me if I’m wrong since I haven’t had access to soundboards, nor have I used an h4n, but wouldn’t you need to use the 1/4” jacks for line inputs? I believe the XLR inputs are mic input only. I’d say that, next time, try using those inputs instead.

For my DR-40 this is how I’ve ripped cassette tapes using a pair of RCA to 1/4” cables from the tape deck, and it worked perfectly.

edit: see the attached screenshot of the spec sheet

[cajuntaper]

That's probably correct. I didn't realize those inputs were for mics only and that there was a difference between a microphone input and a line level feed. I'm still pretty new to taping, and it's still a lot of trial and error and learning from mistakes like this for me.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

[opsopcopolis]

Did the file get properly closed before removing the USB drive?.

I know it’s not the current discussion, but this almost definitely the issue. Done it to myself more times than I care to admit

[admkrk]

Sorry if this isn't the right place to ask this, but I taped 4 shows yesterday, and was lucky enough to get a board feed for all 4. 3 were in one location, the 4th was in another.

In all 4 gigs, the feed was XLR straight from the board into an H4N, and my gain for all of them was set well below clipping. But during the shows I noticed that instead of the bars moving with the sound, like the channel my mics were on, they were maxed out at the level I had set below clipping. I mentioned it to the first sound guy, but I haven't gotten many board feeds in the past, and I was glad enough to have the feed, I didn't want to question what he was doing, especially while he's trying to mix the show. But then the same thing happened at the second location.

Sure enough, I transfer the files today, and the board feeds are all clipped out and unlistenable. Is this a situation where there was too much gain on their end on the board output? Or is it something I have set wrong on my H4N?

I had just had my H4N replaced by Zoom bc of the rubberized coating degrading, and I'm not sure if I put all my settings back the way they were before, but I think I had everything right on my end.

Just trying to figure this out for future situations like this.

I don't have an h4n, but it sounds like it only has a mic in instead of a line-in, and the signal is too hot for your recorder. You can buy an attenuator for each XLR https://jennifervanelk.com/line-level-audio-clipping-with-the-zoom-h4-h4n-buy-an-attenuator/#:~:text=The%20Zoom%20H4%20and%20H4N,the%20worse%20it'll%20become.

That is probably exactly what happened. Thanks! I had no idea that was an issue with a line level feed. Appreciate the tip. 

On the older F series, like my F4 and F8, to switch to line level you need to use the 1/4" inputs. They moved it to the menu with the F8n, so you could use either XLR or 1/4" inputs for line level. I assume the H series have the same combo inputs.

[bonghitwillie]

you should always have headphones to monitor your recorder when you get a sbd feed. some feeds are hot some are low. ive hooked into press mults and that are a mixed bag. some are line, some are mic. if you get an independent feed off the sbd ahead of time, i usually ask the soundman to put the level at 50% figuring it wont be too hot or too low and i wont have to bother him. keep in mind that pre show the recorded music will be low and as the show progresses it might get louder.

[opsopcopolis]

if you get an independent feed off the sbd ahead of time, i usually ask the soundman to put the level at 50%

Worth noting that's not always possible. I'd say it's relatively common to send the main LR mix to an aux out for a taper, and often AUX don't have actual level controls

[nulldogmas]

An attenuator cable is a great addition to any gear bag.

[yousef]

Or a homemade variable attenuator box... I made two despite my dismal soldering skills c20 years ago and they're still in one of my gear boxes.

Not that I've had to use them for a long while - between more robust inputs on modern recorders and the flexibility of digital mixers, I don't have much need of them any more.

I remember one soundman casting a dubious look at my very homemade looking attenuator and asking "so can than thing record?"

[cajuntaper]

For line out from board to H4N, does it make a difference if 1/4" cable is shielded or unshielded? Like instrument cable vs speaker cable.

[jefflester]

For line out from board to H4N, does it make a difference if 1/4" cable is shielded or unshielded? Like instrument cable vs speaker cable.

Absolutely. An unshielded speaker-type cable should never be used for any mic or line level signals, only for their intended power amp to speaker purpose.

[cajuntaper]

For line out from board to H4N, does it make a difference if 1/4" cable is shielded or unshielded? Like instrument cable vs speaker cable.

Absolutely. An unshielded speaker-type cable should never be used for any mic or line level signals, only for their intended power amp to speaker purpose.

That's what I thought, just wanted to make sure before I purchased! Merci bien!

[kliked]

it's still a lot of trial and error and learning from mistakes like this for me.

This never goes away no matter how long you do this.  It's one of the best parts so embrace it now.

I was lucky to have a few very experienced people be very generous with their time and knowledge when I was getting started.  A few years later they ask me questions as often as I ask them.