Topic: Mentor Call For Help

[morst]

~Signed, A guy who frequently walks away with thoughts about stereo separation.  ; ).

[nulldogmas]

Gutbucket (or anyone), is there any benefit in a situation like this to pointing the mics slightly to the outside of the stacks? Cardioid patterns don't start dropping off significantly in pickup until they're 30 degrees or so off center, so would it make sense to skew each mic, say, an additional 15 degrees to the outside, amounting to a total split of 64 degrees?

[AbbyTaper]

VibrationOfLife - check your PM's.

[VibrationOfLife]

VibrationOfLife - check your PM's.

Got it.  Thanks again.

[checht]

Another option for dealing with the 'hole in the middle' issue is to go to OMT4, space a pair of omnis the full 4' and add a closely spaced coincident pair in the center. I prefer a pair of supercardiods x/y PAS in the center, but folks also like m/s.

Go nuts!

OMT4 FTW!

[robgronotte]

On Audacity:

Pan 10% to the right > SHEPPi Free Spatial Enhancer (Maximum Ambience factory preset) > Compress dynamics 1.2.6 (default factory preset) > Bass and Treble (Bass +2 dB, Treble -1 dB) > Normalize

I usually would not rely on the spatial enhancer, but I always tape from much closer, trying to get the balance right between the PA system and the monitors/drums on stage.

This is the kind of thing I do as well. I have miniature cardioid mics, but I still try to get pretty close if I can, and then I'll try to point one at a PA and the other at the band.

[Gutbucket]

Gutbucket (or anyone), is there any benefit in a situation like this to pointing the mics slightly to the outside of the stacks? Cardioid patterns don't start dropping off significantly in pickup until they're 30 degrees or so off center, so would it make sense to skew each mic, say, an additional 15 degrees to the outside, amounting to a total split of 64 degrees?

Sure.  That's often the best option when you can't arrange for a wide enough spacing to best support the actual narrow PAS angle.  Especially outside where you needn't worry about too much "room sound" or side-wall reflections when farther back.  The wider angle will make for increased stereo separation, just need to balance that against aiming for as much clarity as possible by pointing directly at the PA, partly from attenuating the side wall reflections a bit more as much as being perfectly on-axis.  And if you are running a forward-facing mic or PAS pair in the center if instead of just a straight stereo pair, you can angle that pair wider than the PA without as much concern about loosing clarity.  That's usually how I orient the L/R supercard pair in my OMT setup. They are spaced ~11" to either side of a forward facing M/S pair in the middle (22" total), and because of the presence of the center pair, I like to keep that L/R near-spaced pair pointed around +/-45 degrees and not much less than that. Much narrower and I'd want to spaced them apart more, but my current setup doesn't allow for that easily.  I do change the angle of that pair somewhat depending on the situation though, more on-axis with the PA when inside from farther back.

[morst]

Gutbucket (or anyone), is there any benefit in a situation like this to pointing the mics slightly to the outside of the stacks? Cardioid patterns don't start dropping off significantly in pickup until they're 30 degrees or so off center, so would it make sense to skew each mic, say, an additional 15 degrees to the outside, amounting to a total split of 64 degrees?

I run WAAAAY wider than the stacks often. Works great.
KM140 cardioids for that.
Was amazing live in loud headphones at redrocks, I guess it amplified the wall sounds a little, which made it even more redrocksy.

[admkrk]

I run my 140s ORTF, exclusively. They are almost always pointed way outside of the stacks, unless at a small club. I have rarely been disappointed.

[VibrationOfLife]

I was able to run way closer tonight and way more directional which is not usually possible.  Made a huge difference.  Thanks for all the input, and I hope this thread takes off for others to ask for help in a consolidated thread.  Thanks to many of you as well for the PM's.  I really really appreciate the time you spent with your thoughts, working on my file, and truly constructive comments.  I take them all in.

Cheers! TS FTW.

https://imgur.com/a/kmirDQS

https://imgur.com/a/WgVzQWs

Imagine after this a hundred kids playing soccer and doing cartwheels soon congregated.  I almost had 10 heart attacks.  I'm too old for what I did to protect my stuff.  Only got hit once by a ball and saved 5 3 year olds from completely taking everything out.  I weighed everything down, but there were kids flying from all directions for 1.5 hours.  I was beat.  That is why I never bred.  But, the recording came out great, and the band was fantastic.  They wanted me to matrix, but I don't just carry around 2x 50' of XLR in my backpack.

[Dan33185]

I was able to run way closer tonight and way more directional which is not usually possible.  Made a huge difference.  Thanks for all the input, and I hope this thread takes off for others to ask for help in a consolidated thread.  Thanks to many of you as well for the PM's.  I really really appreciate the time you spent with your thoughts, working on my file, and truly constructive comments.  I take them all in.

Cheers! TS FTW.

https://imgur.com/a/kmirDQS

https://imgur.com/a/WgVzQWs

Imagine after this a hundred kids playing soccer and doing cartwheels soon congregated.  I almost had 10 heart attacks.  I'm too old for what I did to protect my stuff.  Only got hit once by a ball and saved 5 3 year olds from completely taking everything out.  I weighed everything down, but there were kids flying from all directions for 1.5 hours.  I was beat.  That is why I never bred.  But, the recording came out great, and the band was fantastic.  They wanted me to matrix, but I don't just carry around 2x 50' of XLR in my backpack.

Sweet Lillies, great band, wish they came around here more often.

[morst]

...They wanted me to matrix, but I don't just carry around 2x 50' of XLR in my backpack.

I use a messenger bag for the extra pair of 50's

[checht]

Make a 50' 2 - channel snake using lightweight cable and techflex, it's a great investment.

Ted at GAK makes great custom cable like that if you don't solder.

[VibrationOfLife]

Sweet Lillies, great band, wish they came around here more often.

https://archive.org/details/TheSweetLillies2024-08-03.aud.flac24

[Dan33185]

Sweet Lillies, great band, wish they came around here more often.

https://archive.org/details/TheSweetLillies2024-08-03.aud.flac24

Looking forward to listening, thanks! Here's one I recorded last year:

https://archive.org/details/TheSweetLillies2023-08-25.matrix