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Author Topic: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder.  (Read 40947 times)

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Offline TheJez

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #90 on: September 27, 2024, 11:40:11 AM »
From the manual:
Quote
BACKLIGHT
This sets the display backlight.
OFF: Backlight always off
5–30 sec: Backlight turns off automatically after set time without operation
ALWAYS: Backlight always stays on (default)
NOTE
The backlight setting is only active during battery operation.
The backlight will always stay lit when operating on USB bus

I just don't get it why Tascam wants to overrule the user preference when USB power is connected. Such a pity. Hopefully they can and will change this odd behavior with a firmware update.

I am not sure that necessary is the correct conclusion from what the manual is saying. "Operation on the USB bus" is not the same as "when USB power is connected" - they may be referring to audio interface usage.

Hmm, indeed, it could be read that way. But I guess "The backlight setting is only active during battery operation" doesn't leave much room for different interpretation... I hope you're right, though.

Offline dallman

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #91 on: September 27, 2024, 04:02:15 PM »

[/quote]
I am not sure that necessary is the correct conclusion from what the manual is saying. "Operation on the USB bus" is not the same as "when USB power is connected" - they may be referring to audio interface usage.
[/quote]

I agree, using the deck as a USB interface is different than running a battery via USB, which will show the same screen and same functionality as using an internal battery. As a USB interface, the function of the machine is very different. I do not think the screen will stay lit with an external battery. Just a guess obviously.
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Offline Joop

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #92 on: September 27, 2024, 05:02:03 PM »
Before discussion is going on with the wrong text, this is what is printed in the manual;
NOTE
The backlight setting is only active during battery operation.
The backlight will always stay lit when operating on USB bus
power.

The last line with "power" was omitted. So its USB bus power.

Offline commongrounder

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #93 on: September 28, 2024, 12:15:36 PM »
What’s the betting that in reality it’s nearer to the Mixpre 3 battery life of 2.5 hours?
Power usage MixPre 3 is with phantom power switched on about 6Watt (not correct, its much higher). Maximum power usage F3 is 5watt. Maximum power usage Tascam FR-AV2 is 3.8Watt. The reason that the power usage of the Zoom F3 is higher has to do that it only has 2 AA batteries for power, ie maximum 3Volt. Tascam has 3AA for power, ie maximum 4.5Volt. To give you an idea what's happening, lets take the 48Volt for phantom power. The microphone uses 3mA with 48Volt. That is 0.144Watt. For the Zoom F3 this will be at least 0.144Watt / 3Volt = 48mA for a mic. For the Tascam FR-AV2 this will be at least 0.144Watt / 4.5Volt = 10,7mA. If you use two microphones this means for the Zoom 96mA and for the Tascam 21.4mA, difference 74.6mA.
Just want to point out a math error in the current flow calculation on phantom channels for the FR-AV2. It works out to 32ma, not 10.7ma, so the difference between the Zoom and Tascam for a 3ma stereo pair is 32ma, not 74.6ma.
 Another comment is on power consumption, which is a complex subject as it concerns DC/DC conversion efficiency, etc. But as we know, wattage is a measure of power consumption - that is current times voltage. Higher battery voltage, lower current draw. So, wattage/power consumption only indirectly relates to the number of batteries or their total voltage. The obvious difference between having two cells versus three cells is actual stored energy capacity, which will be approximately 50% larger in the Tascam. All things would indicate the Tascam will have longer running times with internal battery due to the extra cell, and its lower power consumption. In any case, I personally don’t trust my recorders (with the exception of my never-die Sony PCM-M10) to run for long periods on the internal battery. I always use power banks.

Offline voltronic

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #94 on: September 28, 2024, 01:01:02 PM »
On paper, this looks really great and may be a better alternative to the Zoom F3.

I am most interested to see how its autoranging ADCs perform, and if they suffer from the same windowing noise modulation as the Zoom F-series does.
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Offline Niels

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #95 on: September 28, 2024, 03:40:24 PM »
I am most interested to see how its autoranging ADCs perform, and if they suffer from the same windowing noise modulation as the Zoom F-series does.

How does it perform in the Portacapture X6 and X8?
I’d imagine we should expect something similar.
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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #96 on: September 28, 2024, 04:48:59 PM »
On paper, this looks really great and may be a better alternative to the Zoom F3.

I am most interested to see how its autoranging ADCs perform, and if they suffer from the same windowing noise modulation as the Zoom F-series does.

A noise that no one can hear, I believe. At least, I cannot.

Offline adrianf74

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #97 on: September 29, 2024, 12:12:49 PM »
On paper, this looks really great and may be a better alternative to the Zoom F3.

I am most interested to see how its autoranging ADCs perform, and if they suffer from the same windowing noise modulation as the Zoom F-series does.

A noise that no one can hear, I believe. At least, I cannot.

Seconded. And I'm sure most others will agree with.  This new device might be worthwhile for somebody who doesn't own an F3 but I can't see myself jumping to buy one to replace what I already own. Just used my F3 for a stealth job last weekend and it serves me perfectly fine.
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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #98 on: September 29, 2024, 09:36:16 PM »
On paper, this looks really great and may be a better alternative to the Zoom F3.

I am most interested to see how its autoranging ADCs perform, and if they suffer from the same windowing noise modulation as the Zoom F-series does.

A noise that no one can hear, I believe. At least, I cannot.

Seconded. And I'm sure most others will agree with.  This new device might be worthwhile for somebody who doesn't own an F3 but I can't see myself jumping to buy one to replace what I already own. Just used my F3 for a stealth job last weekend and it serves me perfectly fine.

Concur

Offline TheJez

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #99 on: September 30, 2024, 04:49:34 AM »
Before discussion is going on with the wrong text, this is what is printed in the manual;
NOTE
The backlight setting is only active during battery operation.
The backlight will always stay lit when operating on USB bus power.

Thank you Joop for clearing up the confusion. So it seems the backlight will always light up when a USB battery is attached, regardless of the user preference for backlight. Still hope Tascam reads this and will update the firmware to honor the user backlight setting regardless of the used power source.

Offline Joop

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #100 on: September 30, 2024, 11:40:51 AM »
Just want to point out a math error in the current flow calculation on phantom channels for the FR-AV2. It works out to 32ma, not 10.7ma, so the difference between the Zoom and Tascam for a 3ma stereo pair is 32ma, not 74.6ma.
Huh? My bad, you are right, don't know what's happened in my calculator, I can't get the 10.7mA again.

Offline Kyle K

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #101 on: October 01, 2024, 08:36:43 PM »
They're in stock at BHP. Picked up 2. Will run stage/SBD next weekend. Hoping that Bluetooth 5 dedicated dongle (vs 4 on the A10) will prove to be a bit more reliable, I sometimes have issues checking SBD levels via Bluetooth from the front of the room. I'm a little bit skeeved out by not having internal memory to fall back on, too, but I know it'll be fine. Will report back on ease of use.

Edit: I'm just going crazy, I also picked up an Ultrasync Blue. Should be the ultimate quality of life upgrade. Timecode sync, no worrying about levels, more stable Bluetooth monitoring (which has saved my ass in the event I don't see levels at all once the show starts). Ahh. Fingers crossed.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2024, 09:32:10 PM by Kyle K »

Offline vwmule

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #102 on: October 02, 2024, 12:26:09 AM »
Got an email from B&H saying expected home delivery is Oct. 2.

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #103 on: October 02, 2024, 12:15:06 PM »

Got one from B&H today. Due to Rosh Hashana closure the delivery date is October 9th which is no big deal I don't plan to do any shows until after that anyway.

Hope to be able to use this instead of my Oade modded DR100mkii which is just a little too big sometimes and has a fussy internal battery scheme.

After a couple of trial runs I'll try to use it for Bob Weir and the Louisiana Philharmonic in November at the Saenger Theater in NOLA. This plus my MBHO actives will be a jacket pocket sized rig that could be run from seat or clamped and left to run unattended.
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Offline Kyle K

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Re: Tascam FR-AV2 new compact 32bit float recorder coming soon.
« Reply #104 on: October 02, 2024, 04:51:09 PM »
Curious if anyone can lend some insight on the following:


PCM A-10 AUDIO in specifications:
Input impedance: approx. 4.7 kΩ
Rated input level: approx. 2 V
Minimum input level: approx. 18 mV


Tascam FR-AV2 max input specifications:

XLR/TRS LINE level:
24 dBu

3.5MM:
+1 dBV


In trying to shortcut understanding these values, I plugged them into Claude and asked for some details translating them. I came out with the following:

+1 dBV (FR-AV2 3.5mm jack) =    1.122 volts RMS
+24 dBu(FR-AV2 XLR/TRS jack) = 12.28 volts RMS
+8.2 dBu(PCM-A10 LINE IN) =      2.000 volts RMS


Does this seem right? I'm trying to understand the practical applications as it relates to an increase or decrease in headroom, using some DPA 4061s into the FR-AV2 3.5mm as opposed to the PCM-A10. At this point all I know is "well, one of those numbers is bigger than the other!", but in terms of practical applications, with the goal being "I don't want to have to worry as much about digital peaking in my recording device", I'm trying to gain further understanding.

Seems that I may be best served using something like this?
https://immersivesoundscapes.com/accessories/Adapter-for-PIP-mics-to-work-on-XLR-48V-Recorder-p492004466


Do the benefits afforded by dual ADC outweigh any concern related to max input with those values?

These are the questions I'm asking myself and attempting to research and understand. Just wanted to pose the question here in case anyone is able to quickly lend some insight. These values and what they mean are a bit of new territory for me.

edit: Here's the conclusion I'm running with for the time being. Will ultimately test both in the field side by side. If anyone wants to chime in with why this is bullshit or correct, feel free. Just output from discussions with LLM (Claude)

Quote
To answer this question, we need to compare the maximum input levels and the recording technology of both devices:

PCM-A10 LINE IN: +8.2 dBu (2.000 volts RMS)
FR-AV2 3.5mm jack: +1 dBV (1.122 volts RMS)

At first glance, the PCM-A10 appears to be the "safer" choice because it can handle a higher input level before clipping in its analog stage. However, this doesn't tell the whole story. Let's break it down further:
FR-AV2 advantages:

32-bit float recording: This provides an enormous dynamic range, theoretically capturing everything from the noise floor to well above 0 dBFS.
Dual ADC system: One ADC captures the full range, while another captures at a lower gain, providing a safety net for unexpected peaks.

PCM-A10 limitations:

Traditional fixed-point recording (likely 16 or 24-bit).
Single ADC system.

Why the FR-AV2 might be safer despite the lower maximum input level:

Even if the analog input stage clips, the lower-gain ADC in the dual system can still capture the peaks accurately.
The 32-bit float format allows for extreme gain adjustments in post-production without introducing quantization noise.
You have more flexibility in setting levels. You can set a lower input gain to avoid clipping the analog stage, and still capture quiet details thanks to the high bit depth.

In practical terms:

With the PCM-A10, if you clip the input, that information is lost forever.
With the FR-AV2, even if you clip the analog input stage, you're likely to still have usable audio data that can be recovered in post-production.

Conclusion:
The FR-AV2 with its 3.5mm input would likely be the safer choice, despite its lower maximum input level on paper. The advanced recording technology provides a much wider margin for error and more forgiving post-production options.
That said, the ideal solution would be to use the XLR/TRS inputs on the FR-AV2 if possible, as they provide even more headroom. If you must use the 3.5mm input, start with a lower gain setting than you would on the PCM-A10, and trust in the 32-bit float and dual ADC system to capture the full dynamic range of your source.
Remember to always do test recordings in conditions similar to your actual recording scenario to ensure you're getting the results you need.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2024, 05:06:49 PM by Kyle K »

 

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