Deity PR-4 Recorder

[fanofjam]

Nice review.

Remote control via the same Sidus app used with PR-2?

Yes I just grabbed the Sidus app and it interfaces fine with the PR-4.  Seems to set up glitch-free...took less than five minutes to register on the app and have the app recognize the PR-4, of course after I enabled bluetooth on the PR-4. 

I never used the app with PR-2 for reasons I mentioned before.  Is there a lock function on the app so that nothing can be reset while your phone is in your pocket.  I did start and stop recording via the app just now and I like that before stopping the recording the app asks if you really want to stop recording, which should prevent accidental stopping, but I'd also like a lock to prevent any other controls from being accidentally bumped.  TIA.

[fanofjam]

For what it's worth, I've left the PR-4 on for the last two hours with it recording (no mics attached though) and I can't feel that it's any warmer than it was when I first took it out of the packaging.  Probably not indicative of anything though until I connect two sets of mics with phantom turned on.

[fanofjam]

I just spent another hour trying to confirm that my initial concern about no file delete from the menu is correct and I just can't find where you can do this, so I really think my initial concern holds true. Someone please correct this if you see something I don't.

I was also starting to doubt my conclusion that the SD and SSD can't be independently controlled to switch either of them on and off, but I think that's also holding true.  The reason I was starting to doubt is the basic screen has two tiny little icons that are continuously lit green...one for the SD and one for the SSD.  My thinking was that, logically those icons should correspond to the SD and SSDs being enabled...like say green for enable/on and red for disabled/off.  However, that doesn't appear to be how it works. 

Upon switching on the PR-4, those two icons don't initially appear on the main screen.  Then after five to ten seconds, the come on and are lit green.  I think what's happening is that the machine goes through some sort of self-check and one of the self-check functions that the SD and SSD are both working properly.  If there's no SD card in the slot, the only icon that lights is the SSD icon.  But with the SD card installed, both of them come on.  I don't have a bad SD card to check, but my bet is that if either the SD card or SSD go bad, the corresponding icons will light red instead of green. 

I'll double check the manual to see if there's anything about these lights/icons and/or confirm the above.

EDIT:  Nope, the colors of the lights associated with the SD and SSD cards is simply to indicate if they are almost full.  They are lit green until there's only 1 hour of recording time left, then they turn red.  I mean, that's nice and all, but I'd REALLY prefer having the ability to independently control the SSD to toggle it off, especially if it draws much battery power.

[Gutbucket]

If only because it is much easier to see and more fully labeled (at least it is on PR-2), you might try using the Sidus app only to check settings and available menu options, even if not using it for while recording.

Nice review.

Remote control via the same Sidus app used with PR-2?

Yes I just grabbed the Sidus app and it interfaces fine with the PR-4.  Seems to set up glitch-free...took less than five minutes to register on the app and have the app recognize the PR-4, of course after I enabled bluetooth on the PR-4. 

I never used the app with PR-2 for reasons I mentioned before.  Is there a lock function on the app so that nothing can be reset while your phone is in your pocket.  I did start and stop recording via the app just now and I like that before stopping the recording the app asks if you really want to stop recording, which should prevent accidental stopping, but I'd also like a lock to prevent any other controls from being accidentally bumped.  TIA.

I didn't use the app to control the PR-2 originally, preferring simple direct hands on control of the device, partly for the reasons you mention.  I did later start using it occasionally simply as a way of easily confirming all settings.

However because I'm now using now using two PR-2 to record four channels, I use the app every time while recording to sync the clocks and for simultaneous transport control.  It makes for easy syncing of date/time beforehand, of timecode just prior to the start of recording, and a single button push to start/stop both recorders.  It provides control for powering both off afterward, and for batch firmware updates to the recorders wirelessly from the phone. 

I'm unaware if there is a lock function in the app (I don't think there is), so I simply either minimize the app (if actively doing something else with the phone) and/or push the power button of the phone to disable the phone screen and put the phone in "standby mode", both of which protect from making any accidental changes.  After the phone has been "standing by" in pocket for a while, the bluetooth connection sometimes needs to be reestablished, but doing so has not been problematic.  I've not had any problems with recordings being stopped accidentally when controlling the recorders via the app.

The app has been additionally useful to "check that meters are moving" on both recorders, and otherwise confirm everything else is good while recording, including both clocks in visual sync and the input gain of all channels is correct and unchanged.  The app has not been very useful for accurately confirming levels (meter movement is quite intermittent and not smooth), or for accurately adjusting levels while recording if necessary because control of levels via the app is via on screen "faders".  For that reason its better to adjust levels directly on the devices themselves if possible, much more accurately via the detented input wheel of the PR-2. [Edit- a TS member in the PR-2 thread mentioned a work around for this, which entails setting up a number of saved configurations that differ only in input gain setting and switching between them using the app, rather than trying to change gain via the screen sliders.  Clever, but I've not yet tried it.   And I now pretty much know what gain settings I'll need beforehand so rarely need to adjust while recording)]

Obviously some of this is specific to PR-2 and may not apply to PR-4, but may be helpful for you.

[adrianf74]

@fanofjam - great mini-review first look.  While I don't have the unit, yet (nobody in Canada has them for sale), some of these things are definitely "we're IT people and we're going to build it the way we think it should be done rather than what's always been done."

I don't mind the lack of disabling the internal SSD.  Having a second record could prove useful and it really isn't using much more juice to write dual files.

What I am interested in is the "handoff" between the ADCs.  I saw a video where someone showed some asymetrical wave files when the handoff between the two is involved.   You able to check this?  Here's the video and the point in where he talks about the quirk:

https://youtu.be/Xt7oeir_RTI?si=4_lqNa950R2_v_zj&t=344

[noahbickart]

can anyone confirm that, while using the aes inputs, the recorder writes 4 channels of bit perfect 24/96 PCM data?

[fanofjam]

If only because it is much easier to see and more fully labeled (at least it is on PR-2), you might try using the Sidus app only to check settings and available menu options, even if not using it for while recording.

Thanks alot for the response Gutbucket.  Appreciate your insights. 

FWIW, I messed around with the app and couldn't find a lock function for the app.  From what I can tell, if you butt dial the screen, you can't toggle a recording off, since like I said before you get a 'are you sure' message before recording can be stopped from you phone.  However, the channel sliders aren't protected, so looks to me like levels might be able to be butt-dialed, though again if you're in 32bit float recording mode, maybe that's a moot point.  I'll check that out sometime soon with a real time sample, but as mentioned below, tonight I'm doing a battery run time test, so at the moment it's just rolling and recording background house noises.

@fanofjam -

What I am interested in is the "handoff" between the ADCs.  I saw a video where someone showed some asymetrical wave files when the handoff between the two is involved.  You able to check this? 

I'm checking this tonight...doing a battery run time test.  I'll take a look at the files tomorrow and let you know if see anything. 

I have an initial thought/idea about what he might have been seeing, but right now I'm not sure.  I'm thinking it might not have been assymetrical ADCs, but glitches introduced by Automix.  I did a test recording last night and was watching the L and R channel mix simply from recording two channels of background noise at home.  The L/R outputs had literally ABSOLUTELY no connection to the peak levels being recorded on channels 1 and 2.  I mean, totally random.  Both ch 1 and 2 would be steady as a rock, since all I was recording was noises in our house...fridge, air conditioning, etc.  At the same time, the L channel would jump up while the R channel wouldn't even register.  Then the next second, the R channel would peak out and L would drop to zero.  Really really weird.  CLEARLY automix needs to be disabled for what we do, although personally I've never had any use for the L/R mix channels on any of my multi-channel recorders.  I'm going to try and figure out how to disable L and R.  So far, I'm not sure if that's possible because on the mix menu, the only channels available to arm are CH 1 though 4.  On that menu, there doesn't seem to be a selection to disable the L and R mix channels.  I'll get this susssed out after I finish the run time  test recording I'm doing now.

can anyone confirm that, while using the aes inputs, the recorder writes 4 channels of bit perfect 24/96 PCM data?

I can't comment on bit perfect data (is there something out there that tells how to run a test to make sure it's a bit perfect data stream?) , but I can comment on 4 channels and the answer is 'yes' we get four digital channels, but ONLY from the XLRs...here's what the manual says at the bottom on page 19...

- When any track is set to AES digital input mode, all track modes are synchronized to AES digital input.  The 3.5mm TRS input channels are disabled, and analog and digital inputs cannot be used simultaneously.

So, no digital from the TRS jack which is labeled on the outside of the PR-4 case as channels 3 and 4 (but they're only channels 3 and 4 in analog mode...see below).

But at the bottom of page 20, is the following...

- When digital input (AES3 or AES42) is selected, the PR4 switches entirely to digital input mode.  Each XLR corresponds to two input channels - occupying 2 tracks.  That is, the signal from Channel 1 is mapped to tracks 1 and 2, corresponding to AES3-1 and AES3-2 or AES42-1 and AES42-2.  In this mode, the settings for tracks 3 and 4 also switch to digital input, and the 3.5mm TRS physical input interface is disabled.

So even though the XLR and TRS inputs are labeled Ch 1 and 2 (XLRs) and Ch 3 and 4 (TRS) on the external case of the PR-2, in reality in digital mode, Ch 1 and 2 are from the left XLR and Ch 3 and 4 are from the right XLR.

Hope this helps.

[noahbickart]

do you have an AES/EBU source you can test? Can one change the levels while in digital mode?

[darby]

so far I have NOT found a way to disable L/R Mix channel

for doing only 2 channels Digital In...

I have NONE of the Tracks Armed... but I Route 1 to Mix L and 2 to Mix R

on Output... I Route 1 to L and 2 to R if I am running AES on 1/2
it would obviously be 3 and 4 if using 3/4

this gives me a Stereo recording with NO Mix Track essentially

if I wanted to do 4 channels...

I would go ahead and Arm all 4 tracks and Route whatever to the Mix

you are going to end up with a Polywave with a Stereo Mix Track no matter what

I did NOT play with the Output since I don't think I will be using the PR-4 in that manner

[fanofjam]

do you have an AES/EBU source you can test? Can one change the levels while in digital mode?

I do and that's something I'll be doing.  I have an AD2K but it's in storage right now, which is 9 miles from home.  Give me a day or two.

[fanofjam]

I bought two of these NPF550 batteries off of Amazon.

Amazon.com: RUEMIU 2-Pack Upgraded 3800mAh NP-F550 Battery Compatible with Sony NP F550, F970, F750 F330, F570, F960, F770, Camera Camcorder, LED Light, Monitor and More : Electronics

Run time with Channels 1 and 2 supplying phantom to a pair of Nak 700s, screen brightness was set on 3, the red deity light on the back was disabled:

6hr, 29 min

With Channels 1 and 2 supplying phantom to a pair of Schoeps CMC4 (with 48v Phantom Mod) > mk4:

6hr, 59 min

Marketing information is claiming 8.5 hours, so I didn't get that.  But Deity doesn't define the setup conditions that 8.5 hours is based on, for example how many channels and whether phantom was used.  The batteries I bought aren't the Deity branded batteries.  Supposedly the Amazon batteries are 3800mAH, whereas the Deity branded battery is 3350mAh, but I would never trust the specs from an off-brand battery sold on Amazon.  I'm pretty pleased with 6 1/2 - 7 hours for the $30 I paid for two of the off-brand batteries.  One of the Deity branded batteries is $40 on the Deity site.

[fanofjam]

For clarity, the lights that surround the two gain/fader knobs (on the left of the front face) light yellow in BASIC mode and blue in EXPERT mode.  The lights look exactly like the Sound Devices lights that ring the gain control for their various products like the mixpre series and the 788t.  However, be aware that on the PR-4 these lights are simply locator lights...they do not flash different colors or indicate levels like the SD mixpre series.  

[jbell]

Would love to hear how the preamps sound!

[darby]

Would love to hear how the preamps sound!

only $449 

[adrianf74]

Would love to hear how the preamps sound!

only $449 

Doesn't mean a lot these days, really.  The technology out there has gotten better and cheaper over the past decade.