Topic: Deity PR-4 Recorder

[mterry]

A digital input isn't that big of a deal to me (nice extra)!  There Sax is the only preamp with digi out in production anymore.  I really like the size for running 4 channels though, if the preamps sound nice.

I still have the ol' trusty vertical, so for me, yeah, aes is a game changer (and no one with do a digi-in anymore it seems). I'm the odd one out still using a minime, whatevs! 

[grawk]

A digital input isn't that big of a deal to me (nice extra)!  There Sax is the only preamp with digi out in production anymore.  I really like the size for running 4 channels though, if the preamps sound nice.

Yeah, the math doesn't math if you need 2 sonosaxes to get good preamps.  My concern with channels 3/4 is they're not xlr, so that removes some of the benefit of the size.  I'd love a recorder I can plug my DMS rig into or the ambeo, but this doesn't seem to be it.

[jbell]

A digital input isn't that big of a deal to me (nice extra)!  There Sax is the only preamp with digi out in production anymore.  I really like the size for running 4 channels though, if the preamps sound nice. In

Yeah, the math doesn't math if you need 2 sonosaxes to get good preamps.  My concern with channels 3/4 is they're not xlr, so that removes some of the benefit of the size.  I'd love a recorder I can plug my DMS rig into or the ambeo, but this doesn't seem to be it.

I was thinking I could run my Schoeps> Riotbox into channel 3/4 to use all the channels!  I'm going to hold off until it is vetted and proven worthy. 

[grawk]

That's a great option for 2 pairs of mics.  I want the same preamps on all inputs from either the ambeo or schoeps DMS.  I know they're not obligated to my use case, and I may replace my tascam fr-av2 with this if it turns out to be comparable.

Honestly tho, I want the PR2 they described while it was vaporware

[jbell]

A digital input isn't that big of a deal to me (nice extra)!  There Sax is the only preamp with digi out in production anymore.  I really like the size for running 4 channels though, if the preamps sound nice.

I still have the ol' trusty vertical, so for me, yeah, aes is a game changer (and no one with do a digi-in anymore it seems). I'm the odd one out still using a minime, whatevs! 

That's a huge preamp for a recorder that small.  Good luck keeping that apogee alive.

[Gutbucket]

Honestly tho, I want the PR2 they described while it was vaporware

  I want the PR2 to be exactly that, and the PR4 to be a four channel version of that PR2 providing four channels via two locking minijack inputs.  But have been waiting for that since the DR2d.

[Top Hat]

This is the marketing claim on the preamps:

"The PR-4 features the brand new ReGain Preamps™, ultra-quiet microphone preamps that deliver up to 60 dB of gain, providing enough amplification to drive even demanding dynamic microphones without the need for external inline boosters.

"Achieving an Equivalent Input Noise of -127 dBV (-125 dBu) represents a significant engineering accomplishment for the PR-4’s preamp design. Measured under A-weighted conditions at 60 dB gain with a 150 ohm source, this level of performance places the PR-4 firmly in professional territory, delivering an exceptionally low noise floor that preserves detail and clarity even with low-output microphones."

Mixpreii
-128dBu
76 dB gain range
Thats a rather BIG gain difference!!
s/n ratio likely MUCH better in the MPii.
This PR4 pres hovers right there between Zoom H Series and F Series in quality. With the F a single stage pre and the Deity a dual to get that quality.
Don't know why the big hype of this? It was basically designed for field use for capturing spoken word ...like interviews..and not designed for quality live music capture. End of the day ya spend more $$ on pres cables battieries adding more things that can go wrong or, buy a quality self contained unit that has great specs and quality pres. In the production field the former is adding way to many dynamics and problems to the mix.

[Top Hat]

A digital input isn't that big of a deal to me (nice extra)!  There Sax is the only preamp with digi out in production anymore.  I really like the size for running 4 channels though, if the preamps sound nice.

I still have the ol' trusty vertical, so for me, yeah, aes is a game changer (and no one with do a digi-in anymore it seems). I'm the odd one out still using a minime, whatevs! 

That's a huge preamp for a recorder that small.  Good luck keeping that apogee alive.

The Zoom H6 is right at 55/6, I can def. hear an audible difference between the Zoom and Mix..Night and day...I bet most could with this Deity too.

[grawk]

I don't remember the last time I used more than 20db of gain on a live concert recording.  Now, ribbon mics recording acoustic guitar and vocal at 6 ft, sure.

[Top Hat]

I don't remember the last time I used more than 20db of gain on a live concert recording.  Now, ribbon mics recording acoustic guitar and vocal at 6 ft, sure.

Using a  lower gain setting provides cleaner audio with less distortion and noise, increased dynamic range, and better control over volume. If my recordings require 25-30% less gain on a quality recorder, that is substantial and def audible.

[jbell]

The PR4 isn't in direct competition with the Mixpre 6!  That would be the PR8. 

This is the marketing claim on the preamps:

"The PR-4 features the brand new ReGain Preamps™, ultra-quiet microphone preamps that deliver up to 60 dB of gain, providing enough amplification to drive even demanding dynamic microphones without the need for external inline boosters.

"Achieving an Equivalent Input Noise of -127 dBV (-125 dBu) represents a significant engineering accomplishment for the PR-4’s preamp design. Measured under A-weighted conditions at 60 dB gain with a 150 ohm source, this level of performance places the PR-4 firmly in professional territory, delivering an exceptionally low noise floor that preserves detail and clarity even with low-output microphones."

Mixpreii
-128dBu
76 dB gain range
Thats a rather BIG gain difference!!
s/n ratio likely MUCH better in the MPii.
This PR4 pres hovers right there between Zoom H Series and F Series in quality. With the F a single stage pre and the Deity a dual to get that quality.
Don't know why the big hype of this? It was basically designed for field use for capturing spoken word ...like interviews..and not designed for quality live music capture. End of the day ya spend more $$ on pres cables battieries adding more things that can go wrong or, buy a quality self contained unit that has great specs and quality pres. In the production field the former is adding way to many dynamics and problems to the mix.

[Gutbucket]

I don't remember the last time I used more than 20db of gain on a live concert recording.  Now, ribbon mics recording acoustic guitar and vocal at 6 ft, sure.

Using a  lower gain setting provides cleaner audio with less distortion and noise, increased dynamic range, and better control over volume. If my recordings require 25-30% less gain on a quality recorder, that is substantial and def audible.

Advantageous to get the signal level up to where it needs to be early in the signal chain, and earliest is the mic itself.  Condenser mics with sufficient sensitivity require minimal if any additional gain.  Input stage still important but becomes less of a factor that way, signal to noise improves, etc.

But, a problem with the PR2 proved to be its inability to handle high sensitivity mic inputs.

[adrianf74]

I preordered the PR2.  Because of that, I'll wait for reports on the PR4...

Exactly this.  Not interested in seeing that it’s noisy AF based on the PR-2.  Don’t care about specs; more interested in real world data and experience.

[DSatz]

After seeing (over the Internet) the PR-4 as shown at the NAB convention last week, I wrote to the company thusly:

Hello. I'm trying to understand the degree of support built in to the PR-4 for recording stereo with two AES42 digital microphones simultaneously. I've read the manual and didn't find answers to these questions.

[1] Do the XLR inputs, when switched to AES42, supply digital phantom powering (10 VDC)? If not, how do you suggest that users power their AES42 microphones?

[2] Are the AES42 connections Mode 1 (= microphones are self-clocking) or Mode 2 (= microphone clocks are controlled by the interface)? If it's Mode 1, how does the recorder resolve the inevitable, real-world differences between the clock rates of the two inputs (e.g. does it have built-in sample rate conversion for one input)? (I think this would equally be an issue for AES3 inputs, by the way.)

[3] In the most frequent use case, an AES42 microphone provides just one channel's worth of audio data, even though the interface is inherently two-channel; the second data channel coming from the microphone is normally identical to the first. With two AES42 microphones connected for stereo, is there a way to select just one channel from each microphone's output stream, and to record two rather than four channels of data, so as not to waste storage in the recorder?

Best regards,

Today I received the following reply:

Thank you for your questions. Please find our responses below:

1. The voltage is 10V.

2. The device operates in Mode 1. Both inputs perform SRC (Sample Rate Conversion), and they share the same clock source, consistent with AES3.

3. Yes, this can be achieved. When using an AES42 microphone, the 3.5mm TRS input will be disabled. In the ARMSET settings, CH1/2 correspond to Microphone 1, and CH3/4 correspond to Microphone 2, which can be assigned flexibly as needed.

Please feel free to let us know if you have any further questions.
Best wishes

-- Looking on their Web site, I note that there isn't a separate U.S. version of this model with monitoring-while-recording disabled. Maybe the more complex routing arrangement gets them around the (IIRC) Lectrosonics Zaxcom patent (thanks for the correction, Grawk).

-- Digital phantom powering can draw up to 250 mA (long-term) per microphone. I probably should have asked about expected battery life when two AES42 mikes are connected and powered on; it will definitely be lower than with other types of sources.

[grawk]

*zaxcom patent