Insta360 Mic Pro - New wireless mic with 32-bit stereo internal recording

[Ozpeter]

I have just encountered a serious bug in the current Mic Pro firmware.  I have immediately reported it to a contact at Insta360, and this is an extract from my report - 

"I have just noticed that there seems to be a serious firmware issue with my Mic Pro.

When I use the phone app to turn off the indicator light, this also disables the record button on the Mic Pro.  if I press it, nothing happens - no short red light, no short vibration. If the indicator light is turned off, it is only possible to record using the "Rec" button in the phone app.  As soon as I turn the indicator lights back on, the record button the Mic Pro becomes operational again.

This could be a serious issue - I have just lost a one minute recording (at home, just a test, it was actually not important) because I had turned off the indicator lights earlier in the day, and I did not realise that as a result, the record button on the Mic Pro was not working.

I think this is something that your engineers should investigate urgently, as it might cause widespread criticism of the Mic Pro if users do not realise that the device is failing to record something which might be impossible to record again."

So - if you are using the Mic Pro to record with its indicator lights off, for the time being use the phone app to start and stop recording.  Pressing the record button will not work.

Perhaps someone can double check this with theirs?  Simply use the app to turn off the indicator lights, then press the record button on the device (not the phone).  Do you get a vibration response - or no reaction?

[palm0014]

I gave it a try this morning, and I am NOT encountering your bug.  I press the record button quickly, the red light comes on for a few seconds, it vibrates, it records.  I have the lights disabled.

However, I do notice that in order to enable recording, I really have to press that record button quickly, or else it doesn't trigger.  I'm not sure if that's just how the Mic Pro works with/without indicator lights, but I've had to get used to it while trying to record a concert.  I was sitting there the first day thinking "Why is this thing not recording?" and it was because I was pressing the record button too long.

Edit: ozpeter asked for the firmware version.  I'm running 1.1.1.1.

[Ozpeter]

I gave it a try this morning, and I am NOT encountering your bug.  I press the record button quickly, the red light comes on for a few seconds, it vibrates, it records.  I have the lights disabled.

However, I do notice that in order to enable recording, I really have to press that record button quickly, or else it doesn't trigger.  I'm not sure if that's just how the Mic Pro works with/without indicator lights, but I've had to get used to it while trying to record a concert.  I was sitting there the first day thinking "Why is this thing not recording?" and it was because I was pressing the record button too long.

Thanks so much for checking.  Just to confirm FW version number, which I should have mentioned - mine is on 1.1.1.1 (it says at the bottom of the first page of the phone app) - are we on the same version?

Meanwhile I think there is a reset function, which I will try, and report any change here that results...

[Ozpeter]

AI reminded me how to reset it - hold down the power button for ten seconds.

Now it behaves consistently in the following way - 

LEDs on - pressing the record button starts / stops recording reliably (and it doesn't seem particularly fussy about button press time, within reason).

LEDs off - pressing the record button once makes the blue light come on for a few seconds, but recording does not start.  Press the red button a second time while the blue light is still visible, and the red light comes on for a few seconds and recording starts.  To stop recording, the record button has to be pressed once to get the lights back on, and immediately pressed again to stop recording.

palm0014, I wonder whether yours does actually have the same problem, which you interpreted as a problem with pressing the button too long?  I am wondering because if you pressed the button and nothing happened, maybe you pressed it again shortly after, thus satisfying the apparent requirement to press it twice to get recording started.

I do think that it's a bug....

[Gutbucket]

Wow, lot of action in this thread. I'm just coming back to it after a month or so and this looks quite promising.

Any word on how if/how-well multiple Insta360's work together?

Specifically:
App control over start/stop recording of multiple units simultaneously?
Can app be used to confirm the multiple units are all recording correctly?
Clock sync of multiple units remain sufficiently close to not have phase issues when combined for stereo?

[Ozpeter]

Wow, lot of action in this thread. I'm just coming back to it after a month or so and this looks quite promising.

Any word on how if/how-well multiple Insta360's work together?

Specifically:
App control over start/stop recording of multiple units simultaneously?
Can app be used to confirm the multiple units are all recording correctly?
Clock sync of multiple units remain sufficiently close to not have phase issues when combined for stereo?

There's a lot of action here partly because I keep going on about it!  I've now uploaded 14 videos to YouTube!  It is the most impressive recording device I have ever used - not necessarily the best of course, but given its size and price, it really does seem to be groundbreaking.  An overused word...

As for using multiple devices, I can't help at all with your questions because I just have the one transmitter (and no receiver - I suspect that the receiver is needed for timecode functions??).  

However, personally I rather wonder whether it would be worth using a pair.  I guess as spaced omnis, if that was a preference, it might be worthwhile, but the other polar patterns are kind of artificially constructed and the results might be unpredictable.  For instance, when I use my single one for recording voiceovers in my lounge, cardioid worked quite well in terms of cutting down room reverb, but figure of 8 worked better, which is counter-intuitive as I would have thought that the sound being picked up at the back as well as at the front would add audibility of room reflections.  And then we come to the "voice focus" setting, which some reviewers have implied works like a shotgun mic.  It doesn't.  It does pick up human speech only at a narrow angle at the front, and treats speech at the sides and back as noise, in effect.  But ambient noise isn't suppressed.  So if one used the 'voice focus' setting with a waterfall to one side of you, or a busy road, all that noise would be captured, competing with your voice.  But a person chatting beside you wouldn't be heard.  Ideal for use in a room full of people, eg a cafe, but otherwise, not a shotgun pattern at all.

I really like the stereo image from my single Mic Pro - I recently recorded and uploaded to YT a recording of a suburban 'dawn chorus', and when played on speakers, the sound seemed to come from beyond the speakers.  (Of course that might be deemed undesirable for gig recording).  So unless I lose this one (which is something one has to be careful not to do!) I won't be buying another.  But that reflects my personal uses for it I guess.

[palm0014]

AI reminded me how to reset it - hold down the power button for ten seconds.

Now it behaves consistently in the following way -

LEDs on - pressing the record button starts / stops recording reliably (and it doesn't seem particularly fussy about button press time, within reason).

LEDs off - pressing the record button once makes the blue light come on for a few seconds, but recording does not start.  Press the red button a second time while the blue light is still visible, and the red light comes on for a few seconds and recording starts.  To stop recording, the record button has to be pressed once to get the lights back on, and immediately pressed again to stop recording.

palm0014, I wonder whether yours does actually have the same problem, which you interpreted as a problem with pressing the button too long?  I am wondering because if you pressed the button and nothing happened, maybe you pressed it again shortly after, thus satisfying the apparent requirement to press it twice to get recording started.

I do think that it's a bug....

You did help me figure out an issue I was having with stopping the recording!  I didn't know that I had to press it (or any button for that matter) once to get the lights back on, and then press again to stop the recording.  You solved a mystery of mine, thank you!  Last week while ending my recording, I was getting fed up and would just power down the device.

Now I'm starting to think that this might not be a bug persay, but the way it works.

If LEDs off - pushing any button will bring the device to life and then you can push any buttons to your heart's desire and they will work?

I'm glad you reported it as it would be good to get a response from Insta360.

[palm0014]

An update after going through security a few times with the Mic Pro:

I attended Ottawa Bluesfest where security asks you to empty your pockets of any metal, and then walk through the metal detectors.

The first couple of time I went through, I had the Mic Pro clipped to the front of my belt.  No issues with the metal detector.

Clipping the device to a belt turned out to be a horrible decision as the day I went with my young son, I was more focused on him going through security and not my Mic Pro and I ended up losing the device somewhere between security and our spot we sat down to enjoy the concert!  I had to purchase a new one a few days later.

The next time I went through security, I kept the Mic Pro inside my pocket.  No issues with the metal detector.

Just wanted to let folks know in case they were wondering how to get it through.

I did put an image of some footprints on the front of the device and had plans to tell security that it's a pedometer.  I never had to explain it.

An update on bluetooth connectivity:
I'm not convinced that the app is something you should depend on in a crowd of thousands of phones.  I had a hard time connecting to the app.  It's best to learn how to turn the thing on and off manually.

[Gutbucket]

Anyone who tries using multiple recorders simultaneously please let me know, thanks!


Yes, if transport and clock sync is good enough I'd use them in spaced or baffled configurations, similar to how folks have been using mono Instamics and other similar self-contained units.   Ideally I'd like to be able to do the same things I'm doing with wired mics, such as run three of them for spaced omnis plus a mid/side pair in the middle. And things I've long wanted to do like multiple Mid/Side pairs positioned around around a central baffle. Perhaps even as individual self-contained wireless directional mics in my larger multichannel arrays as long as the performance and directional mono patterns are good enough (and transport/clock sync is sufficient, along with overall management of the files and everything being reasonable). 

I've been running two Deity PR-2 with their transports and clocks synced by a control app in that way, which achieves four channels, albeit with mics wired to each recorder. So sorta taking that one step further.

[dallman]

Loving the device so far. Keen to give it a shot at a gig soon.

What images/wallpapers are you guys using when taping? Anything cool going around?

I use he logo of our NFL Team. It just looks like a supporter button. I keep the windscreen in my pocket as it is plastic, so no worries. Also the Insta360 Mic Pro does not activate the metal detectors.

[Gutbucket]

Funny how so many things come 'round full circle. I may make a thread specifically about the following, brought to mind while catching up on this thread..

Just a year and a half ago or so we were speculating about producing a bi-directional fig-8 sensitivity pattern using a pair of closely spaced miniature omnis for Side channel use, which is what this and all other MEMS-based units are doing in stereo mode.  I never had time to play around with that as much as I intended.

A number of times we've discussed the use of low-frequency difference "Blumlein shuffling" as a way of making the most from relatively narrow-spaced omnis, last was just a few years back spurred by Voltronic in the classical recording thread.

And we've discussed the use of phase-shift networks as a tool for doing some of these things, including unusual "phase-rotation" schemes that maintain the same phase shift across all audible frequencies such as the Voxengo PHA-979 plugin.

And!.. going way back.. (literally all the way back for me) the very first thing I ever posted about at Taperssection 20 years ago was an AES paper describing a technique for using three omnis positioned around a sphere-shaped baffle that incorporated with some Sum/Difference processing. Matrixed Pressure Triplet baffled omni array? https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=57742.msg759926#msg759926

^ Compare that specifically (and all hose things) to this AI explanatory bit Peter posted a few pages back:

The Capsule Layout: A Three-Mic Array
Instead of a simple pair of left/right capsules, the Insta360 Mic Pro uses a three-microphone MEMS array arranged in an isosceles right-triangle layout.

Code Select Expand

      [Mic A] (Apex)
         /\
        /  \  ~20–25mm
       /____\
   [Mic B]  [Mic C]
By having three capsules spaced fractions of an inch apart, the device doesn't record "traditional" stereo in the physical sense. Instead, it relies on digital beamforming (calculating the microsecond time-of-flight differences between those three adjacent points) to dynamically synthesize different polar patterns: Omnidirectional, Cardioid, Figure-8, and Super-directional.

How DSP "Fakes" the Stereo Image

When you set the Mic Pro transmitter to record in stereo internally, it isn't just sending raw left and right feeds from two of the capsules. To make a stereo image "work" at a ~2.5 cm physical spacing, the onboard processors likely employ several clever psychoacoustic tricks:

• Mid-Side (M-S) Matrixing: By utilizing the three capsules, the DSP can generate a virtual Mid channel (using a synthesized forward-facing Cardioid pattern) and a virtual Side channel (using a synthesized Figure-8 pattern facing left/right). By matrixing these ($\text{Left} = M + S$, $\text{Right} = M - S$), they can electronically dial in a wide, artificial stereo field.
• Frequency-Dependent Stereo Spacing (Shufflers): To combat the exact issue you pointed out—where high frequencies "beam" to the sides and low frequencies turn to mono—modern DSP uses frequency-dependent matrixing. It can artificially boost the level of the "Side" signal at mid frequencies to push the stereo image outward, while keeping the lowest frequencies strictly centered to prevent phase cancellation.
• Phase-Shift Networks: They can  introduce tiny, artificial phase delays in the mid-to-high frequencies between the left and right synthesized channels to mimic the Interaural Time Differences (ITD) of a wider microphone setup.

One take away-
Because the 3 MEMS in the Insta360 "puck" are positioned in a triangle layout, orientation of the puck (on-edge, rather than on-face) will matter with regard to the axis of the resulting mono cardioid, as well as the resulting stereo axis.  If all 3 MEMS were spaced along a single line instead of in a triangle, edge-on verses face-on orientation wouldn't matter based on sensor geometry, although the housing shape could have some influence.

[meltycrayon]

What images/wallpapers are you guys using when taping? Anything cool going around?

When I break down and get one, based on what others have said, I think I'm putting "REWARD IF FOUND" and my phone number. 

[papabliss]

Here is a sample of my stealth recording from Alison Krauss and Union Station - 20260718 - Ting Pavilion Charlottesville Va. Right side of the center section, last row FOB, clipped to hat visor.  Recorded in 32bit and set to cardioid. High pass filter applied. 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rCsH9NxRLk0QOGPVAJxKKn-spMtKRhqn/view