Help on deciding a rig for an outdoor show

[roffels]

Hey folks, 

I've taped all sorts of rooms but I'm never satisfied with the handful of outdoor tapes I've done. I'll be set-up FOB (or near it) but I don't totally know the layout as of yet. 

My gear: 
Rode ambisonic mics (x2) - maybe the most versatile? 
AKG C568EB shotgun mics - I like the sound of these, and will have some dead rat windscreens. Not sure how they'll perform outdoors
AKG CK63 hypercardioid mics - I don't think these are the right choice but open to dissenting opinions
Nakamichi CM-1000 Pinpoint omnis - I love the sound of these

As of right now, I'm leaning toward some sort of 3 mic configuration with the Nakamichi omni and the shotgun mics, but if I'm off base, I want to hear it. 

I'm tempted to go dual split ambisonic mics - I've never actually tried running both into my 8-channel recorder so I'm not sure how they'd perform like that. It's a bit of an unwieldy rig, a pain to decode, but also would give me some versatility. 

It's unclear to me if I'll have a soundboard feed, and I'm operating under the assumption I won't. 

[grawk]

Spaced Omni's 

[goodcooker]

I'd run the omnis split 3ft and the Rode ambisonic in the middle. If you decide you need something in the middle you can decode it however you like. The Rode decoder has output settings for coincident stereo so you could make it a single hyper facing straight forward or a pair of crossed figure eights. You may decide you don't even need anything in the center but if you get those tracks in the bag you can make that decision later.

Doing big footprint setups like this is often only an option outside - and omnis really shine with less walls.

[Craig T]

another vote for omnis split 3ft and the Rode ambisonic in the middle.  if outdoors, I'd try with a the ambisonic mixed to blumlein to start.

[Top Hat]

Unless you want a hollow sounding recording use the AKG 63s. 
I would run 61's outdoors but the 63's will suffice.
You will get a nice direct sounding pull.
Use GOOD QUALITY windscreens.

OH p.s you are going to get a plethora of different responses here.
Ambi's are a waste of time...emphasis on "timing" cause its all over the place.
Shotties will be a bit thin unless you are at a distance and that was the only choice.
Omni's will be hollow and distant sounding especially spaced outdoors. I like these close up indoors on stage or in studio.
Just my preference...Out of your tool box I would trust the 63s hand down

[beroti_music]

Nakamichi pinpoint omnis for sure.

[roffels]

Ambi's are a waste of time...emphasis on "timing" cause its all over the place.

Can you tell me what you mean by this? 

They might not be the right tool here but they've been a gamechanger elsewhere, specifically on stage. I haven't been a fan of using one FOB but have used it as a minimalist rig elsewhere (stack tapes mostly) 

Thank you everyone for your feedback. This festival will be running two stages - not sure what sort of access I'll have but maybe I'll end up running a rig at each stage and compare notes. 

[HealthCov Chris]

I really like spaced omni's with cards or hypers in the middle at x/y config.  Here is a sample of 3' split CA14 omni's and center akg ck61's in x/y.  The ck63's actually clean it up a little more.
https://archive.org/details/DSO2017-07-01.Highberry_Matrix/DSO2017-08-01S1t02.flac

[HealthCov Chris]

Also can't go wrong with the AKG 568's pointed at stacks.  Here's a sample of how they sound outside.
https://archive.org/details/rre2022-10-02.InsideOut_AKG.eb568/03+Bird+In+a+House.flac

[Gutbucket]

Spaced omnis with something in the middle - go-to answer for outdoors.

That "something in the middle" should ideally be directional, primarily focused on stage and PA.  You have a number of good options.  The Rode ambisonic in that position might work really well and will be fun to play around with afterward.  The AKG hyper pair can also work very well.  I'd run them X/Y, no wider than 90° maybe narrower to keep them closer to on-axis with the PA.  That will work will in combination with the spaced omnis.  But if you prefer, a relatively tight and narrow-spaced near-spaced stereo configuration would work as well.  3' wide spacing for the omnis is sufficient, but 4' or 5' will be even better if you can manage that.  No worries if not, but try to get at least 3' if you can.

Both the ambisonic mic and the hypers are likely to be rather wind sensitive.  The omnis won't need nearly as much wind screening in comparison.  Honestly not sure about the Rode, I'm assuming it has a flat response down to low frequencies similar to the TetraMic I'm familiar with, making it rather wind sensitive.

[Gutbucket]

^That's a "mostly reasonable" setup, totaling 4 or 6 channels depending on what you choose to use in the center.

However, if you want to take it further you can, as you have the mics needed. Start with the same setup and add the shotguns spaced 2' apart, pointed at the outside edge of the stacks.  That addition is likely to dramatically increase SBD-like clarity and the "upfrontness" quality of the resulting recording, which can help from a somewhat distant recording position (although always better if you can setup closer to the sweet spot). To optimize the configuration for that addition, push the omnis out to 4' or 5' wide if possible, and maybe return the center X/Y angle back to 90° or a bit more.

That's 6-8 channels total, depending on what you choose to use in the center.  I know many will consider it overkill, but I can confirm that it works really well outdoors with supercards in the same position that your shotguns would be. 

[Gutbucket]

If you end up using the ambisonic Rode in the center, hit me up if you want to discuss some interesting mixing strategies that makes available.

[Billy Mumphrey]

Spaced omni's with XY hypers in the middle is my suggestions as well. This setup, outdoors, is ideal in my experience. Fat bass and openness from the omni's, and a focused clarity from the hypers.

I prefer a narrower XY pattern, even less than 90. To MY ears, you get so much stereo image from the omni's, you don't need to generate much with the hypers and getting on-axis sound just sounds better to me both in reality and theory. Off-axis sound with hypers is kinda weird and hollow, and I'd rather introduce as little as that as possible. YMMV.

You can also use a single hyper or shotgun as a center mic and point it straight forward, and you can expect similiar results. Gut advised me a long time ago to push the center mic (or mics) forward a few inches and I've really enjoyed that; however I've found it works better the closer you are to the stage. The further back I am, I tend to leave the mics on an even plane, BUT that's just me.