Topic: Cheap mics vs $$$ mics for iffy venue

[jeromejello]

Using a $1400 pre/ADC for a $600 mic pair is great if you can borrow the pre, but I'm looking for a mic first. I'm not saying a good pre can't make a mic sound better (different), but I think running a mic line in to an M1 should give one the best idea of what a mic sounds like - no pre to add coloration. I would love to hear others' comments on this.

i think the mics are the most important first step, but a quality pre will really allow the mic to reach its potential (as will a good adc)

running line in to ANYTHING (albeit 722/744 & r-4 & 660/670) will be suckage and WILL NOT show the mics sound true colors but rather the limitations of what its going into.  while i have used the jb3's adc and a ps-2 (strickly p48) for my at853s and have achieved nice recordings, it is nothing compared to the 853>ua-5>jb3.  the pre and adc being done outboard is huge improvement to just everything i have tried and make these budget entry level mics a real contender when paired with good pre/adc.

obviously, the at853 in front of a v3 would be the exact opposite - clearly showing the limitations of the mic... and i can see your point of a having a 1400 pre/adc and 300 mics.  but there is a balance. 

[Massive Dynamic]

i think the mics are the most important first step, but a quality pre will really allow the mic to reach its potential (as will a good adc)

running line in to ANYTHING (albeit 722/744 & r-4 & 660/670) will be suckage and WILL NOT show the mics sound true colors but rather the limitations of what its going into.

I see this logic, but I ran an A/B test with Audix 1290 > pmod UA-5 > M1 and Audix 1290 > PS-2 > LT > M1, and the UA-5 sounded only slightly better. The venue and PA were both poor, so maybe it wasn't a fair test. Or perhaps it was the perfect test; I heard little improvement with a $500 pre vs. line transformers. This experience seems contrary to others' experiences, which is why I appreciate the discussion.

[jeromejello]

i think the mics are the most important first step, but a quality pre will really allow the mic to reach its potential (as will a good adc)

running line in to ANYTHING (albeit 722/744 & r-4 & 660/670) will be suckage and WILL NOT show the mics sound true colors but rather the limitations of what its going into.

I see this logic, but I ran an A/B test with Audix 1290 > pmod UA-5 > M1 and Audix 1290 > PS-2 > LT > M1, and the UA-5 sounded only slightly better. The venue and PA were both poor, so maybe it wasn't a fair test. Or perhaps it was the perfect test; I heard little improvement with a $500 pre vs. line transformers. This experience seems contrary to others' experiences, which is why I appreciate the discussion.

well i dont think it was the perfect test, with a shitty pa and a shitty venue... rather i think what you are seeing are the limits that are observed when dealing in these environments... there is only so much any gear is going to do in these conditions... and i would guess that if the pa and venue suck and you feel you only get marginally improved sound with a pmod ua-5 over transformers you have come to 2 conclusions... 1) the pmod DOES sound better and 2) transformers are a cheaper alternative for you and your taping environments.

imo, i dont think transformers would be my solution.... i would (and do) have them for stealth situations, but would rather the ua-5 for open taping... i have heard a difference in my tapes b/w the at853s > bb / at853s > ps-2 / at853s > ps-2>mit176 / at853 > ua-5

have you considered possibly other mic configs?  ortf is my personal favorite/standby, but in the right (ahem, wrong) situation would blow goats...

[Nick Graham]

I think running a mic line in to an M1 should give one the best idea of what a mic sounds like - no pre to add coloration. I would love to hear others' comments on this.

Bingo! In the words of Doug Oade - "There's no pre-amp like no pre-amp".

Everything we add in the chain (pre, A/D, cables, etc.) all change the overall sound. Running with as little effects as possible (in this case line in straight to a deck) will give the best representation of what a mic really sounds like.