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Author Topic: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Updated 8-01-2008  (Read 49410 times)

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Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2006, 06:32:45 AM »
Another good thing to know is R-09 MIC/LINE input jacks in certain 2006 production runs were NOT soldered correctly, and this caused early jack connection failures even with being careful with not stressing these normally delicate inputs.

So here's another view of deck's tear-down, and two views of these connections with suggestions.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Offline lbgspam

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2006, 08:43:13 AM »
Another good thing to know is R-09 MIC/LINE input jacks in certain 2006 production runs were NOT soldered correctly, and this caused early jack connection failures even with being careful with not stressing these normally delicate inputs.

So here's another view of deck's tear-down, and two views of these connections with suggestions.

Do you have any idea which production runs (perhaps serial number ranges) have this problem?

Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2006, 12:56:17 PM »
Just got a note back from schoepsnbox who reports that he loaned an r09 to a friend and it came back with a busted jack..  He opened it up to discover that the traces ripped off the board..  He ended up epoxying the connector to the board.

I opened mine up this weekend and the solder looked pretty good.  Touched it up a bit. But I doubt that will prevent any trace lifting, if things come to that.. I have also considered that soldering a short pigtail cable to the board might be better for some than just epoxying the jack down.

I doubt the pigtail lead is practical as read.  These jacks need be SOLID down on the board. If the jacks are not fixed in place, even pigtail leads will eventually fatique and break.

If there were enough bad solder connections on any jack (there are 4-5 soldered pads on each) give way, the forced of a (especially straight) plug is enough to lift the remaining good soldered pad(s) completely from the boards glued surface as noted in one instance.

In this case, a pigtail IS likely needed on ONLY the ripped-and-torn-off pad connection AFTER the jack is carefully glued back down, soldered to the remaining board pads.  Short of a ripped pad, good soldered pads using good soldering practice should remedy the situation for most.

Because of extensive use of surface mounted connectors, this is another mini deck that needs EXTRA CAREFUL handling if using straight and most badly engineered right-angled mini plugs.   

In past threads, ONLY two right angle plugs were found to have low enough profile, AND flexible enough cord to mostly prevent jack damaging stresses even if given a hard accidental bump or tug. 

Photo of one such very safe molded plug (Cardas may have the other good design) is below and is standard type on all products here that use 3.5 mm connections.

Adapters, short patches to mini jack/standard mic adapter cables-connectors are available (at least here) if wanting this very-safe type plug for R-09 interface working with your existing gear:
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Offline schoepsnbox

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2006, 02:36:57 PM »
Despite what some may say, IMO it is a design flaw with these units regardless of serial # or date of manufacture.  These units were designed for the use of the internal mics not so much for patching in external pre's and such.  Great unit, it just has a few quirks one being the line/mic in jacks which are held in there with nothing more than a few solder joints, weak.  The boards are double sided with plated through holes, if your lucky only the solder joints will fracture which is a relatively easy fix.  In my case the jack lifted the traces off the board making the repair a little more difficult.  My solution to this issue was epoxying the jack to the board, had a few other thoughts but this made the most sense.  All IMO of course.  Hope this helps.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2006, 08:34:04 PM by schoepsnbox »

Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2006, 06:35:25 PM »
Despite what some may say, IMO it is a design flaw with these units regardless of serial # or date of manufacture.  These units were designed for the use of the internal mics not so much for patching in external pre's and such.  Great unit, it just has a few quirks one being the line/mic in jacks which are held in there with nothing more than a few solder joints, weak.  The boards are double sided with plated through holes, if your lucky only the solder joints will fracture which is a relatively easy fix.  In my case the jack lifted the traces off the board making the repair a little more difficult.  My solution to this issue was epoxying the jack to the board, had a few other thoughts but this made the most sense.  All IMO of course.  Hope this helps.

Actually, I found the R-09 the MOST SUITABLE of all minidecks for external analog signal inputs, the minijack problem is a mechanical weakness that's best treated with more than a little bit of care. 

All minijacks are way too delicate not to be extra careful with what gets plugged in and how the plug is handled afterwards. 

If you pulled ALL THE TRACES up off the board, then obviously the soldering held just fine, but your use of a straight plug is likely, and severe bump or cord tug did the damage.   The jack internal contacts would likely have been weakened or otherwise compromised with such use, EVEN IF THE TRACES DIDN'T BREAK.

So suggest being more careful in the future, and consider a right angle plug of proper design to give needed margin against fatally stressing this type input.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2006, 04:27:18 PM »

I've been using the 9" (I think) right angle stereo mini cable that came with a Headroom Total Airhead headphone amp I bought a few years ago to connect the R-09 and mic pre.  The cable alone is available inexpensively here . That length works perfectly if the two units are taped or velcro'd together.  If I use the two units that way every thing is neat & compact without protruding connectors to damage or snag. The ends are very low profile and the cable is very thin and flexible.  Most importantly for me, the right angle jack on that cable fits nicely into the recessed area where the output jack is located on the DPA MMA6000 mic-pre, & I've had a hard time finding 1/8" stereo mini right angle jacks that fit in there.

Using a right angle cord is especially important when I put the pre-amp in a bag or in one cargo pants pocket (or large regular pocket) and the recorder in the other.  Because the output jack is on the bottom of the preamp, a straight termination would stick out and not allow it to sit in the pocket or bag with the controls facing up.  Unfortunately the Headroom cable is too short to reach to the other pocket where I keep the recorder, so I currently extended it using a RatShack headphone extender which has an ooph straight end into the line in of the R-09.  Though I've been gentle with it in use, it is in a pocket and finally went wobbly and intermitant a few weeks back.  I've switched over to using the mic in jack since then as I have had things I wanted to record and haven't wanted to open it up or wait out a warranty claim right now.

Thanks to Leonard's pics I think I'll open it up and re-solder myself and probably epoxy the jack to strengthen the mounting.  I've considered eliminating the jack for a pig-tail since lifted traces from a strong, well soldered jack that gets bumped too hard is a worse problem I'd rather avoid.  Yeah, the pig tail could fatigue & break a conductor, but I could easily replace it with another.   

Of course what I really need is a 3' version of the Headroom cable, or some other 3' cable with two 1/8" stereo-mini right-angle ends that fits the recessed line out of the MMA6000.  That would make me more comfortable with re-soldering and strenghtening the exisitng jack.  Hell, some of those right angle jacks are freaking huge and are often paired with thick cable sheathing that puts the input jack at risk as much as a straight termination. DPA makes one which is a good quality cable that fits i'm sure, but it's bit pricey, and none of the other right angle cables I've found that do fit are as flexible or have ends that are as compact as the Headroom one to reduce the strain on the R-09 jack.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2006, 04:34:29 PM »
^^^
Guysonic, I've heard good things about the quality of your cables with the amber colored right angle jacks. Can you confirm that your cables would fit in the recessed output of the DPA MMA6000? 

(I think this question is R-09 related enough to post) ;)
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2006, 06:00:33 PM »
^^^
Guysonic, I've heard good things about the quality of your cables with the amber colored right angle jacks. Can you confirm that your cables would fit in the recessed output of the DPA MMA6000? 

(I think this question is R-09 related enough to post) ;)

No idea on the fit.  Maybe someone with a MMA6000 knows someone having a piece of gear with one of my plugs on it to try out and post the results?
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

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Offline Jamos

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2006, 09:10:13 PM »
I just purchased a Pelican 1010 microcase for my R-09.  It fits in there almost perfectly.  There's a bit of space around it, and I have a little bit of bubble wrap in there so that it stays nice and snug. 

For traveling and transport, this case works out perfectly for me.  No worries about scratches or damage to the unit while it's in my bag.

Hadn't seen anyone post about using this case, so I thought I would!

 :P

I can get pics if anyone's interested.

Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2006, 09:32:45 PM »
I have a friend's mma6000 here... The center of the 1/8" socket is .250" from both near side walls.  The face of the socket is .325 below the surrounding lip.  The far wall is about .80" from the center of the socket.

So whether it fits would depend on whether the cable height is above that .325".. And whether the plastic part can fit in the .80" long space..

Didn't Moke use hot glue or epoxy to create an ultra low pro connector?  The mma design makes that very easy to do.. Though expoy is much harder to work with than hot glue.


With those measurements, it seems my plug will fit nicely if laid into the .80" long space leaving ~.20" for the plug's bare cable to 'climb' the remaining ~.10" height to clear the recessed area.
"mics? I no got no mics!  Besides, I no have to show you no stink'n mics!" stxxlth taper's disclaimer

DSM HRTF STEREO-SURROUND RECORDING SYSTEMS WEBSITE: http://www.sonicstudios.com

Offline bzhayes

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2006, 09:23:00 PM »
I had a hard time finding this som you might want to add it to the FAQ:

physical dimensions: 2.5" x 4.06" x 1.19"

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2006, 04:45:07 PM »
I store all my raw recodings as FLAC files.  To save some time when transfering files from the SD card to they computer, I open FLAC and set it read the WAV's from the SD card and write the resulting compressed files to a directory on the HD.  After confirming that the files were compressed and written correctly I re-format the SD card.  Done.

Saves time from copying the WAV's to HD, then compressing to FLAC, then checking files, then deleting the WAV's on the HD and formatting the card. Perhaps this is obvious, but I just started doing this and it works well for me, YMMV.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #42 on: October 31, 2006, 05:27:23 PM »
I store all my raw recodings as FLAC files.  To save some time when transfering files from the SD card to they computer, I open FLAC and set it read the WAV's from the SD card and write the resulting compressed files to a directory on the HD.

I really don't want to get into a flac discussion in this FAQ thread but can't let that go by... I'm sure that workflow saves time but it may get you into serious trouble...

If the wav header says the file is 10 minutes and the file is actually 100 minutes, flac will only archive 10 minutes.  The rest will be lost.  The archive will test and verify just fine.  You may see a warning from flac about 'subchunk something wasn't right' but it will surely not convey the seriousness of the problem.  And, ultimately, flac exits with a "everything is cool" exit code rather than an error code.  So some flac front ends may assume everything is fine.

I've filed a bug against this but there are no plans to fix it in a way that would have flac save ALL of the data.  It is also a very low priority bug.  The flac guys naturally think the header should be corrected.. I see their point but I also have this thing about not modifying my master WAVs in any way.


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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #43 on: October 31, 2006, 05:44:31 PM »
Thanks for the warning.  I usually check the error codes and look at the size of the resulting file. If anything seems amiss I'll play the begining and end of the FLAC to check.  I have occasional files with header issues that I just leave uncompressed, but you're exactly right, you have to be alert to catch it. I'll be even more careful now. I'd love to find a front end that checks the entire file and gives a OK or NOT OK, but that's for another thread.  [off topic side trip off/]
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Offline gmm6797

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Re: Edirol R-09 FAQ -- Please Help and Contribute!
« Reply #44 on: November 16, 2006, 01:27:04 PM »
Firmware 1.10 to be released 11.17.06
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=75463.0

 

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