Topic: Korg MR-1 and MR-1000 - News DSD Recorders announced at AES

[newblue]

I'm curious regarding the cut off for file size and battery life.  Would be nice if someone could field test these things.

[CQBert]

Thanks to all for some great food for thought...

These seem to be a viable alternative to 24bit with comperable if not better preformance.  I can honestly say I have never heard a SACD played back on a quality system but I will in the next week..

If the software package coming with the gear will allow us to work on our recordings and not force the purchase of expensive Hardware/Software I would consider this as an option..  Also, if I can convert from 1bit back to 24/96 or 16/44.1 for the time being why not.. 

It will be interesting to see how this takes off and what the quality is from the first few 'pioneers' as these units begin shipping..

CQBert

[Nick's Picks]

I started getting thoughts of sony DVD players (like the new dvp9100) that have the iLink output, and the higher end ES receivers w/the matching input...and pure DSD playback.
but alas..I know it aint possible, at the moment.  But should there be software or a card that can send the signal (its only firewire), then that would be the shit.
I like DSD.

[flintstone]

A field recorder has quite a task to accomplish:
1. convert Analog signal voltage to Digital  (resulting in a one-bit digital stream)
2. quantize the digital stream into multi-bit chunks based on your settings (16/48, 24/96 and so on)
3. package the chunks in WAV data format, and
4. stream the data onto the recording medium. 
All this at close to real time!

It seems to me that if steps 2 and 3 could be done on your computer, which may have
greater processing power than your recorder,  you might get more accurate results.
You certainly could experiment with the process of filtering and decimating the one-bit
data to produce the multi-bit data chunks.  Because there is no requirement that the
post-production processing occur in real time, your computer could make more complex
calculations.

I can imagine a market developing for plug-in subroutines to perform different types of
conversions of one-bit data.  It's analogous to the way you can purchase little software
modules that extend or simplify the functions of Photoshop.

I'm interested to see what Korg's new recorders will be like, especially including Korg's
PC software.

Flintstone

[momule]

Did you see that the tabletop unit can actually do 5.6mhz audio? I.e., 2x SA-CD quality. That's hot!

Do we actually need that resolution and whatever?
Of course it is nice. But for 'our' purpose?

Not at all. 
But look how many guys fork out $2000 in a recorder.  Then still feel the need to run a $1000 mic preamp in front of it.  For a 2 channel Audience recording, mind ya.

[udovdh]

Do we actually need that resolution and whatever?
Of course it is nice. But for 'our' purpose?

Not at all. 
But look how many guys fork out $2000 in a recorder.  Then still feel the need to run a $1000 mic preamp in front of it.  For a 2 channel Audience recording, mind ya.

That's what I was thinking.
Of course 120+ dB of SNR, THD etc is nice. Also the DSD features gives better resolution for higher frequencies, better 'placement' of signals, etc.
But we still need all that for the 20-20KHz band. Outside of that band is little to record and little to hear.
I am not bashing the Korgs (I would like to buy one myself!) but I am trying to get the devices into the right perspective w.r.t. features.

At this point in time I use a 400 euro recorder for 24/48, a batterybox that could be built for 10 euro in parts if you don't go for luxurious connections and use mics that can be had for $250 a pair. Enough quality for the circumstances I find myself in.
It's all about what we gain by upgrading a recorder.
That is my question, I guess.

[Nick's Picks]

you gain DSD.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

you gain DSD.

Which doesn't mean much until the quality of the analog and a/d sections are known.

[newblue]

I'm with Nick.  It's not so much about the increased dynamic range as is how the bits are written in the audible range of hearing.  I mean look at the frequency response curves for the mics that we use.  They're not picking up 100kHz freqs.  However, DSD does a much better job of actually 'rewriting' the analog wave than does PCM.  It's this why I will be all over this thing.  16 bit PCM is great but is essentially the bare minimum of digital recording w/o suffering in the 20-20,000hz range.

As far as I know the ADC in these things are the Burr-Brown PCM4202 and the DAC is a Cirrus Logic CS4398.  Not too shabby.

I just sent the Product Manager for Korg an email regarding file size limitations with these things.  Hopefully there are none.  I'll post his reply here (if he actually replies).

[manamana]

lately I've been wondering about the MR-1, specifically whether or not you might be able to swap out the HD for a CF card and a CF>mini ata  adapter. Presumably that would result in less heat along with a few oz less weight and better battery life.

I wonder where the HD is in that thing... could you rig a slot in the backside (ala gameboy cartridges) for interchanging cf cards?

I really hope these things are at least close to what korg is claiming them to be.

[jerrythek]

The maximum recording time is 6 hours, regardless of format/file size. For the DSD formats the MR's automatically split the files as needed, in realtime.

Regards,

Jerry Kovarsky

[rdvdijk]

The maximum recording time is 6 hours, regardless of format/file size. For the DSD formats the MR's automatically split the files as needed, in realtime.

Hi Jerry,

You are from KORG, right? Good to see that somebody from KORG has found this excellent forum. Welcome!

Does the 6 hour maximum recording time also mean that the battery life is at least those 6 hours?

Thanks,
Roel

[flintstone]

The Harmony Central web page about the MR-1 identifies Jerry Kovarsky as
Korg's Senior Technology Product Manager .  Welcome, Jerry!

The Korg web site has more information about the MR-1 and MR-100 here:
http://www.korg.com/gear/info.asp?A_PROD_NO=MR__Series

One-bit audio is descibed here:
http://www.korg.com/mr/Future_Proof_Recording_Explained.pdf

Jerry, how soon do you expect the MR-1 and MR-100 to be available for purchase?

Flintstone

[Nick's Picks]

Its a good thing to see someone from the company in here.
we will field test these machines like no other!

[CQBert]

I have been following this discussion with great interest...  I have one lingering question that I have not been able to find a difinitive answer for...

Will the software package that is included with the MR Series be able to render a SACD? 

If not - is there a program available, for a reasonable price, that can?

Thanks for any input  -

CQBert